Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[Vangelovski]

Perhaps it’s because some Christian forum members have gotten the impression from other forum members that this forum should (in the bests interests of the cause) be secular in nature… but I guess I could have gotten my wires crossed on that one, or there is the possibility that I don’t know what secular means.

Its funny, but I had that exact same impression. I was almost going to comment yesterday, but decided against it.

[Risto the Great]

Perhaps it’s because some Christian forum members have gotten the impression from other forum members that this forum should (in the bests interests of the cause) be secular in nature… but I guess I could have gotten my wires crossed on that one, or there is the possibility that I don’t know what secular means.

I find the assertions and mitigating proposals by the MPC noted in the article to be ridiculous by the way, so my sentiments are in line with yours in this regard.

A 73 page thread about the Macedonian Church dispute gave you the impression you shouldn't comment. Interesting. Perhaps some calming tablets are in order.

In fact, I wasn't talking about our fanatical christians here. I was talking about the ones frequenting the churches and listening to these pathetic veiled, manipulative threats founded upon the suggestion that using a non-approved priest will result in denial of entry through the pearly gates.

But since we all agree about that, we can all go back to Sweden or continue polishing our guns.

[Risto the Great]

Is this policy directed to all Macedonian-Australian churches not under the jurisdiction of the Petar?

Pretty much. Though it can get murky if you examine the relationship of individual (ousted) priests with the MPC-OA. Having said that, I am very sure none of the priests working outside of MPC-OA are submitting data (more importantly) money to MPC-OA.

I still don't fully understand this dispute, but the first question that always comes to mind is how can one Bishop be put in charge of two dioceses (Bitola and Australia)? For example the Macedonian dioceses of North America and Europe each have their own bishops.

I do not believe he is the bishop for Bitola. However I do believe the motivations of MPC-OA are less than transparent and strongly doubt all decisions are based upon spreading the faith.

[Tomche Makedonche]

A 73 page thread about the Macedonian Church dispute gave you the impression you shouldn't comment. Interesting. Perhaps some calming tablets are in order.

In fact, I wasn't talking about our fanatical christians here. I was talking about the ones frequenting the churches and listening to these pathetic veiled, manipulative threats founded upon the suggestion that using a non-approved priest will result in denial of entry through the pearly gates.

But since we all agree about that, we can all go back to Sweden or continue polishing our guns.

Or perhaps discussing other secular subjects like “how Muslim children walk out when national anthem is sung”, or “Guns etched with bible verses to deter Muslims” or “Clerks citing God’s authority to deny gay marriages”… you know those kind of secular subjects.

I have close relatives in Sweden, it’s a lovely country. I also no longer have a gun in the house, so the only polishing I do is of my guitars… and occasionally my motorcycles… carry on

[Vangelovski]

Why aren't the real christians violently opposing this line of bullshit?

REAL Christians should be VIOLENTLY opposing this all?

Perhaps some calming tablets are in order.

Sounds like good advice.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Its funny, but I had that exact same impression. I was almost going to comment yesterday, but decided against it.

I decided against it too, on a few prior occasions. Resistance gets harder in the face of repetition, however since its now been noted, I'm happy to leave it at that, for the bests interests of the cause.

[Vangelovski]

I decided against it too, on a few prior occasions. Resistance gets harder in the face of repetition, however since its now been noted, I'm happy to leave it at that, for the bests interests of the cause.

My only real concern was for Christians who may only be new in their commitment to Christ and who might be worried about all these "priestly decrees". But I suppose if anyone is concerned about issues of salvation, they can PM us and we can direct them to the relevant passages in the Bible...free of charge

[Risto the Great]

It appears salvation is only possible through your wallet directly to MPC-OA if you are Macedonian. At least that is what some charlatans would use religion to convince people of.

C'mon you fanatical Christians, rise and and condemn this Bishop! Surely as concerned (and devout) Macedonians you must feel compelled to do so!

[Risto the Great]

Or perhaps discussing other secular subjects like “how Muslim children walk out when national anthem is sung”, or “Guns etched with bible verses to deter Muslims” or “Clerks citing God’s authority to deny gay marriages”… you know those kind of secular subjects.

I think you have confused the "Cause" with discussions allowed on the forum. I'm all up for a laugh any time and can distinguish between the two.

But surely the most religious Macedonians would feel compelled to denounce the lying Bishop! I await your action(s)!

I polish my guitars sometimes too. Then Carnauba wax. The feeling is almost spiritual thereafter.

[Risto the Great]

REAL Christians should be VIOLENTLY opposing this all?

With guns if necessary.
A religious war no less!

[Bill77]

Why aren't the real christians violently opposing this line of bullshit?

Because A) "Real Christians" (Who follow teachings) oppose violence unlike the mob you've shown to be apologetic towards in another thread....
B) "Real Christians" can discern what is from God and what is not, why do real Christians need to show concern with what is not from God? Yes It's detriment to Gods name and saddens me when "So called" Christian people or organisations hijack Gods name but do not do what's from him. All a real Christian can do is warn the confused by using scripture, but many always seem to have a raw nerve hit for some reason and rebuke.

Finally I will say this regarding the Macedonian Orthodox Church. And it comforts me knowing that those behind this organisation will not get away with it at the end. (Warning Chris it's scripture)

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

[Vangelovski]

All a real Christian can do is warn the confused by using scripture, but many always seem to have a raw nerve hit for some reason and rebuke.

This is exactly why the Christians on this forum haven't said anything in relation to this. It would require us referring to scripture and that will just hit a raw nerve with the very person that's demanding we respond. So I concluded that he's either trying to bait us to start another argument or he really is very confused. Either way, we've done the best we can here...I think.

[Tomche Makedonche]

I think you have confused the "Cause" with discussions allowed on the forum. I'm all up for a laugh any time and can distinguish between the two..

Sure...or perhaps some people aren't exactly genuine in their intentions

But surely the most religious Macedonians would feel compelled to denounce the lying Bishop! I await your action(s)!.

Not sure if this is directed to me or not since I already stated my sentiments are the same as yours (unless you consider yourself to not have denounced the lying Bishop yet) Perhaps you can clarify this by specifying who you're referring to in this forum when you say "most religious" and who you're referring to in this forum when you use the friendly label "fanatics"

I polish my guitars sometimes too. Then Carnauba wax. The feeling is almost spiritual thereafter.

Can't say I've ever used Carnauba wax on my axes, well not for the body, I'm an avid user of Jim Dunlop Formula No.65 for the body and neck, I think it does a great job in cleaning and giving a beautiful gloss finish after a nice buff. I also use a Lemon Oil for the fretboard (Kyser being my preference), however for the frets and hardware I will use a nice metal polish, and may have used Carnauba in this regard. I agree that the process, and thereafter, is an almost spiritual feeling

[George S.]

The chrch has created more problems that seem insurmountable.Its not as clear cut as it used to be.Its not just the religion its man making his own religion and representations of god.WE all seem to humanise everything and the price we pay is we throw the baby out with the bathwater,

[Risto the Great]

Because A) "Real Christians" (Who follow teachings) oppose violence unlike the mob you've shown to be apologetic towards in another thread....
B) "Real Christians" can discern what is from God and what is not, why do real Christians need to show concern with what is not from God? Yes It's detriment to Gods name and saddens me when "So called" Christian people or organisations hijack Gods name but do not do what's from him. All a real Christian can do is warn the confused by using scripture, but many always seem to have a raw nerve hit for some reason and rebuke.

Not sure which mob. I generally don't like mobs.
I believe wars can be justified by (real) Christians but I eagerly await correction on this.

I also believe (real) Christians might make a difference on this one. Because nobody else has. If they stand up and denounce the MPC-OA collectively, maybe something will change.

Finally I will say this regarding the Macedonian Orthodox Church. And it comforts me knowing that those behind this organisation will not get away with it at the end. (Warning Chris it's scripture)

This is my point. Why not do something about it as Lord's servant? Are we waiting for a lightning bolt or a burning tree?

They seem to be getting away with it. They do it by lying and scaring their flock. To stop getting away with it, surely the scripture can be used to disprove these liars. Why not utilise the most devout Christian Macedonians to achieve this result. Or will they have to denounce the Macedonian Orthodox faith in order to do so?