Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[George S.]

i saw an article of how the greeks are going to protest about the use of the word macedonia through the ministerial comittee..About how we have no right to cal ourselves macedonian as we are only slav or slavic.The greeks are the only ones that should dcide to use the name for themselves.
from neos cosmos.

NSW want to create stronger multicultural ties
A committee to assist the New South Wales Government form stronger links with the Greek community has been formed


Hellenic engagement: the very first Greek Ministerial Consultative Committee of NSW.
5 Dec 2011
A committee to assist the New South Wales Government form stronger links with the Greek community has been formed. The NSW Government has launched 15 new Ministerial Consultative Committees that will comprise of different ethnic groups, including Greek, to discuss and address multicultural issues as part of NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell's new direction for multiculturalism in NSW.
In the speech delivered by the Hon Victor Dominello, minister for citizenship and communities, he said the reason the NSW Government has chosen to do this is because "NSW recognises the need to engage with all people because the O'Farrell Government knows that when we have strong multicultural communities in NSW, then NSW will have strong economic links to the rest of the world". Philhellene David Clarke has been appointed chair of the 12-person Greek committee.
The members of the committee include: John Kallimanis, head of the Greek Australian Coalition; Michael Kitmiridis, ex Mayor of Kogarah; Dr Panayioti Diamandis, Australian Hellenic Council NSW; Nia Karteris, vice president of the Greek Orthodox Community of New South Wales (GOCNSW); Steven Magdas, president of the Greek Welfare Centre of NSW; Nick Pappas, lawyer; Fr Nicholas Skordilis; Fr Andrew Joannou; Peter Kepreotos, president of the Kytherian Brotherhood; Helen Tzikas, Estia Foundation of Australia; and Anthony Tsoutsas. Member John Kallimanis told the SBS Greek program that one of the first issues they will raise to the parliament will be the use of the name Macedonia.
The committees - which include Chinese, Egyptian, Filipino, Indian, Italian, Jewish, Korean, Lebanese, Macedonian, Maori and Pacific Island Communities, Russian, Sri Lankan, Taiwanese, Vietnamese as well as Greek - are all chaired by current serving Liberal politicians.

[George S.]

his has got to be the most stupid thing thereis nothing on the amacc website about it if they update it from 2007-2008.The greeks are hoping to prevent us from using the macedonia name just as they tried with the slav prefix but this time worse.
I have emailed amacc & mps no luck still.I rang my local member & they don't know anything?
This is the most ridiculous thing i ever heard about no one knows anything or who is invited.
Looks like someone is screwing us again.

[Bij]

I hope you take the time to contact the NSW Government.

already have

[Vangelovski]

already have

Good work. Please let us know if you get a response.

[Bij]

Good work. Please let us know if you get a response.

Will do.

Have you received a response yet? (assuming you contacted them?)

[Vangelovski]

Will do.

Have you received a response yet? (assuming you contacted them?)

Not yet. A number of reps and activists from my community have and none have received any responses yet.

I encourage everyone on here to contact these members of Parliament - we have a right to know who is supposedly representing us on that committee and how they were chosen.

[Bij]

George,

I will give you a simple example on how and why the Macedonian churches came into being within Australia

The Macedonian people in Australia, within their own Macedonian communities, built these churches themselves, both financially, and their own hands.
This is so they could have their Macedonian Orthodox christenings, marriages, burials according to the rites of the Macedonian Orthodox faith.

This is not 100% true. Not for Rockdale's St Petka anyway.

As you're not from NSW, I can only draw paralells and suggest the same may be possibly true for other churches around Australia. It may not be true.

For many many many years, I was told by people involved in the operation of St Petka church that the church was purchased by Macedonians, and that Macedonians donated money towards the building of the church. I know my parents certainly donated a lot of money at the time, and my dad and dedo both worked on the church when it was being built (it's always been a bit of a joke about my dedo because he was a grade A commie before coming to Australia, then all of a sudden got involved in the churches).

Anyway, a few months back I met an old guy who used to be a liberal MP member. He told me that the liberal party gave the Macedonian community the property that St Petka now sits on. Nobody paid for it. He also told me that the community was given money to build the church at the same time.

The reason for them giving the property and money away is that Macedonians were particularly in favour of the Labour party in the political scene and the libs were trying to get them to swing across and start voting for them. Anyway, I saw some pictures of these events in the old guys personal photo album and he said the details of the transferring of deeds are readily available in the state library. Also, I hear one of the local Macedonian newspapers covered this story in the last few weeks???

So what I want to know, is why so many Macedonians gave money to "buy" the church property, where has that money gone? Where is the money that was donated to help build the church, when the Macedonian community also gave so freely to help build the church?

[Risto the Great]

Communities have often received subsidised land. I have no idea about the specifics of any favourable treatments but would not discount the notion that some land may have been obtained on favourable terms. I also would have no doubt that it was purchased and built with community money. I would also not rely on politicians statements, but that is just me.

Bij, before you start asking where the money is, you really should try to get all the facts.

[Bij]

Communities have often received subsidised land. I have no idea about the specifics of any favourable treatments but would not discount the notion that some land may have been obtained on favourable terms. I also would have no doubt that it was purchased and built with community money. I would also not rely on politicians statements, but that is just me.

Bij, before you start asking where the money is, you really should try to get all the facts.

I am only speaking for the St Petka church in Rockdale here, so no info on others. I'm sure they were and are mostly govt subsidised, but in this case the property was supposedly wholly handed over as well as money for building the church. If this is true, very concerning information.

As far as the politician is concerned, he has long been retired now and has nothing to gain from his claims.

Ofcourse, I agree with you about all the facts. I guess if time ever permits I'd like to compare the copies of documents that Belchev has given me to the ones this politician was talking about.

Again, IF true, bit late for ramifications now.

[Vangelovski]

Bij,

I agree with RtG in that you should get all the facts before asking what has happened to money. Some guy told me this and some guy told me that is nothing more than hearsay.

[George S.]

without any documentation it just becomes hearsay.The public cannot access basic financial documents.A lot of people are just assuming things.
The thing that amazes me most is people going around claiming that the people own the churches mthats not right you can help what you like or donate as much it doesm't mean anyhting where ownership is concerned.

[Vangelovski]

George,

I keep hearing this concept about the 'people' owning the churches. Who are the 'people' and how would you list them on the property title?

[George S.]

That's right tom some people think just because they donated years ago or helped build a church they think they have share in the church.They are under a missaprehension.It's really the MOCA that owns them.You hear about this when older people hear that the vladika wants to take the churches. Think of that as to what petar wan'ts all churches to be under the tapia with his own name.Thank goodness the church bill wasn't carried out otherwise he would've had everything on a platter.
Tom as igor said if you go to the meeting(not trying to force you) your input would be valued & you could take back to MTO what was discussed bar sensitive issues within reason.That would be pretty intersting for the rest of us that can't make it.If you can do it it would be great.

[aleksandrov]

without any documentation it just becomes hearsay.The public cannot access basic financial documents.A lot of people are just assuming things.
The thing that amazes me most is people going around claiming that the people own the churches mthats not right you can help what you like or donate as much it doesm't mean anyhting where ownership is concerned.

George,

For incorporated associations, the public can access financial reports through the relevant State's Office of Fair Trading.

For public companies limited by guarantee, the public can access financial reports through the Australian Securities and Investments Commission.

Unfortunately, the public has no such access rights in relation to churches whose legal owners are individuals, rather than incorporated organisations.

[vojnik]

They are answering nothing it is ridiculous they are meant to represent us yet do not listen to us!!!