Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[julie]

aleksandrov, Petar has been placed here in Australia, the largest Macedonia diaspora group STRATEGICALLY to cause DIVISENESS to erode vox populi , the voice of the people, he has been planted and casuing this division by the political parties in RoM to allow the smooth transition of the framework agreemnt , to allow our cultural genocide.
Petar is the anti christ to the Macedonian cause, and PROLET if I hear you one more time spout he is an effing priest, will personally place you over my knee and spank your butt. Wake up stupids, wake up, the grand plan they have put in place has gone through, with UMD full support

[Risto the Great]

Actually, is there any agreement about whether Petar is simply a madman on his own agenda or in fact carrying out the mission of his superiors.

[Mikail]

He is a madman RTG. His superiors silence on this matter suggest they do indeed support his actions.

[Bill77]

PROLET if I hear you one more time spout he is an effing priest, will personally place you over my knee and spank your butt.

Now thats a turn on. Prolet might love a bit of bondage

Petar has been placed here in Australia, the largest Macedonia diaspora group STRATEGICALLY to cause DIVISENESS

I don't think this was part of the master plan. It just eventuated that way because they underestimated the diaspora in Australia.


I understand what Prolet is trying to say (i think). This saga is no good at all and it must be solved. Even if it means inviting Petar and starting some sort of dialog for the sake of our people. Negotiations can be good sometimes.

He is a madman RTG. His superiors silence on this matter suggest they do indeed support his actions.

Or suggests they fear him. He has been known to blackmail them.

[aleksandrov]

Actually, is there any agreement about whether Petar is simply a madman on his own agenda or in fact carrying out the mission of his superiors.

In fact, I think the first theory is closer to the truth. However, in pursuit of his own agenda, he will ally himself with anybody he thinks can assist him, and that usually means domestic and foreign players who share his interest in suppressing, paralysing or controlling the free will of the Macedonian people. He will betray ANYONE if he deems it opportune for his own agenda, so I am not sure that you can call anyone his superior in a long-standing sense. He even did it with his own spiritual child, Zoran Vraniskovski, when he sensed that his material interests were seriously threatened by Vraniskovski's coming out of the closet for an unwavering pursuit of the agenda that Petar set for him. And if he starts feeling that those he betrayed will retaliate more potently than he expected, there is no honor to prevent him from pretending that it wasn't him and that he has nothing but infinite fatherly love and respect for them. He will play that game like a fox, always ready to profit from a fresh opportunity to stick a knife in their back.

[aleksandrov]

... This saga is no good at all and it must be solved. Even if it means inviting Petar and starting some sort of dialog for the sake of our people. Negotiations can be good sometimes....

Given the long history of this saga, which is well documented above, what exactly would you negotiate with him about?

On what basis would you expect that he will honor any agreement that may eventuate, as distinct from using it as a tactical opportunity for another low blow?

[Vangelovski]

Bill77,

I think Petar's actions in Australia fit in quite well with the attempts of the Macedonian Government, starting from the early 90's, to control the diaspora. In fact, although some of the activists who have been fighting Petar all these years fail to recognise it - or just don't want to deal with it, I think UMD is the Macedonian Government's latest instillation that will eventually replace Petar and will do so without the need to attack our churches. They'll attempt to infiltrate our communities through much more subtle methods and may in fact (this is a guess) end up looking like 'peacemakers' or the ones who defeated Petar when the MK Government finally pulls him out and lays it all out on a platter for UMD.

[Bill77]

Given the long history of this saga, which is well documented above, what exactly would you negotiate with him about?

On what basis would you expect that he will honor any agreement that may eventuate, as distinct from using it as a tactical opportunity for another low blow?

Well let me rephrase that. Talks don't have to be directly with Petar. There has to have some sort of dialog. But both sides need to have the will to do it. Its clear you have the upper hand with the success of the Bill not being passed. The Macedonian Orthodox Church don't have much options now but to surrender but under your terms. Some sort of unification is needed because we are divided in all sorts of fronts all over the world.

On what basis would i expect that he will honor any agreement that may eventuate, a legal agreement drawn up by Aussie lawyers even our own Parliamentary Bill to protect us incase of future low blows.

The way things are now, is ridiculous on both sides. Thank God i am an Macedonian Orthodox only by name.

[Risto the Great]

Who needs legal agreements when you can hang millenniums of Christian guilt upon your flock? This is how Petar convinces his supporters that they are in the right. Unfortunately most of the clergy I have met are extremely manipulative and he is one of the supreme masters.

[Vangelovski]

Bill77,

Who would you suggest talking to? Aleksandrov has made it quite clear that neither the MOC or the Macedonian Government are interested. So who does that leave?

[aleksandrov]

Bill,

Please re-read through this thread to identify past efforts that at resolution by dialogue with the Synod. Ever since Stefan became Archbishop, all of our efforts have been completely ignored by him and the Synod, with the pathetic excuse that this is an internal matter for Petar's Diocese.

Archbishop Stefan is either a collaborator in Petar's mission to destroy our community or Petar has some really dangerous dirt on him that we don't know about. If we don't know about it, we can't do anything about it.

As far as a legal settlement with Petar is concerned, we have tried that on numerous occasions as well, including through court-appointed and very expensive mediators. The last mediator, a former Federal Court judge, ultimately advised us that he regretted having taken on the matter and wasting our money. After a day of mediation, he concluded that our dispute is not capable of being resolved by compromise because the bishop will settle for nothing less than our complete capitulation. MOCC St. Petka had to spend tens of thousands of dollars on its lawyers and the mediator for that mediation process, only to rediscover what we already knew.

Petar's defeat in relation to the Bill has not changed his attitude. His delusions of divinity won't allow him to face defeat. He is now persuading his uncritical followers that the Bill hasn't been defeated, but only suffered a temporary set-back, even though the Parliamentary Inquiry's report clearly states that it would not recommend the Bill in this or any other amended form unless community consensus can be reached (something that Petar is undoubtedly not capable of and is not even attempting).

Even if we were to achieve a legal agreement with Petar, that would not resolve the war in the long term. Legal agreements to which one of the parties has no good will, no integrity and is serially prone to deception and cheating are bound to produce more and not less litigation. Actions for breaches of legally binding contracts make up a substantial portion of legal proceedings in this country.

[Prolet]

This is nothing to argue against. It is a fact that Petar has done much to cripple the Macedonian Orthodox Christian community in Australia, he is the cause of this mess, and until he is ejected from the equation, it will remain a mess.

Some of you closet Petar supporters need to come to terms with the truth. The man is a thief who poisons the minds of Macedonian Christians so they can turn on each other. Even his henchmen and lackeys do his work for him. There are two churches in Melbourne which I would frequent when required, one is in Petar's control, the other isn't. It has been a while since I engaged in discussions pertaining to this issue with the local priests and parishioners, I will be much more vocal with my thoughts going forward.

SOM, To me there is alot more to it then simply replacing Bishop Petar what happens after that? The Sveta Petka Church in Mill Park was built to rival the Sveti Gjorgjija Church in Epping, The Soborna Crkva in Sydenham is only a 100 meters away from the Jane Sandanski Church, so basically every church that is not under his control there is one built close by.

Even the Manastir in DonnyBrook was made to rival the one in King Lake which tragically burned down in the black Saturday bush fires 2 years ago.

Aleksandrov, The latest news is that the church in Gold Coast Sveta Nedela is in a legal dispute (The Legal Costs have topped $70,000) and just before new years there was a break in their office and documents were stolen and police was called in. There were two doors, one was destroyed the other was not which means somebody had a key to get in.

[Bill77]

Bill,

Please re-read through this thread to identify past efforts that at resolution by dialogue with the Synod. Ever since Stefan became Archbishop, all of our efforts have been completely ignored by him and the Synod, with the pathetic excuse that this is an internal matter for Petar's Diocese.

I am aware there has been past efforts made. I am not sure of the details of these efforts, what was said, what was offered as an olive branch thats if anything was offered. Its a good sign non the less that you previously showed the will to communicate. I just don't think you should give up regardless how hopeless you may think it is.

Do you get any response at all? or are you completely ignored. If you received a written response, could you post it. I apologise if you have already done so and making you repeat it.

Its a shame we can't get anyone normal from the opposite side where they can voice their concerns on behalf of the MOC, where we can get a fair and balanced argument instead of hearing one side of the story. Instead, we get rabble that curse and threaten you which does not do justice to the MOC.

Bill77,
Who would you suggest talking to? Aleksandrov has made it quite clear that neither the MOC or the Macedonian Government are interested. So who does that leave?

I don't think the government have any say in church politics. Well they shouldn't anyway.

But if they have responded, i would love to see their response aswell thats if its in writing. At the moment i can only treat any information as hearsay.

Edit: Not all information is taken as hearsay, there is clear indisputable evidence that Petar is what people make him out to be. I just don't know the situation regarding communication amongst the two sides.

[aleksandrov]

There has not been a single written response by the Synod to any of our written and elaborated proposals for resolution by dialogue and compromise.

[Mikail]

SOM, To me there is alot more to it then simply replacing Bishop Petar what happens after that? The Sveta Petka Church in Mill Park was built to rival the Sveti Gjorgjija Church in Epping, The Soborna Crkva in Sydenham is only a 100 meters away from the Jane Sandanski Church, so basically every church that is not under his control there is one built close by.

Even the Manastir in DonnyBrook was made to rival the one in King Lake which tragically burned down in the black Saturday bush fires 2 years ago.

Aleksandrov, The latest news is that the church in Gold Coast Sveta Nedela is in a legal dispute (The Legal Costs have topped $70,000) and just before new years there was a break in their office and documents were stolen and police was called in. There were two doors, one was destroyed the other was not which means somebody had a key to get in.

Where the hell do you get your information? Who the hell are you?

Time you start answering some serious questions pal!