Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[julie]

Prolet



Quote:
"The people don't understand the church laws here ... and that is where the problem lies. Had they known the laws and lived according to the church laws they wouldn't be at this court.

"The entire property that serves for religious purposes belongs to the church.

you posted this.
Petar said the last line
read the last 2 words.
the church

NOT TO THE FLAMING INDIVIDUAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you frustrate me

[Warrior]

@ aleksandrov

Thank you for putting up the documents from the NSW churches and it is important that you put that into the maco papers and media so people understnad of the ownership of these churches and that they are not "privatni". It seems you have quite a battle with Petars side kicks, id say its prudent that you bring those tactics into the open in every media outlet, so eventually someone will get rid off Petar and allow for the people to live in harmony. At the moment if you go over for a coffee to a friends place you need to be careful what you say, in case you upset Petars followers or the "privatni" churches.

The churches in NSW belong to the Maco community, as per the documents, whose the Maco community??? Does that mean if you go to Petars churches you are not part of the Maco community? Is there an annual AGM where members are voted and commitee is elected to these "communities". Is this reflected in legal papers? In case the church goes bankrupt the board/commitee is responsible for their actions, who are the people that have been responsible in legal terms for the past few years? Obviously if they are the same people, then you start getting the "privatni" gossips.

Is there a constitution for these community that needs to adhere to? Most non-profit organisations do register with a constitution but very few people know about those constitutions and whether it is implemented. Probably you can give us a quick run down of the constitution and how it is adhered to.

Based on that you need to submit a financial statement annually for a non-profit registration. That is what is reqeuired in Vic for a non-porfit orgnaisaiton. Is that for public consumption?

I dont believe what Petar is doing right, nor do i agree with the fact that dividing the people and pulling away from the MPC is the right approach. Again i will reiterate that all these fighting has to do with money and assets and that is wrong!!! Its a fight as to who will end up with ownership.

Maybe the people from both sides should take a hike and let new blood to come in and sort it out!!!!

[Risto the Great]

Maybe the people from both sides should take a hike and let new blood to come in and sort it out!!!!

One side is the problem. Plain and simple. No transparency with lots of innuendo. Petar's side is the problem. Let him come clean.

[aleksandrov]

Who is undermining the Macedonian Orthodox Church?

Aleksandrov, I guess none of us know the Church laws which is fine by me im no church expert either, i appreciate your honesty....

Do you or do you not suggest that g.g. Gavril committed forgery when he signed a document stating that the Synod has defrocked Petar?

If not, are you suggesting that g.g. Gavril didn't understand Canon Law? If so, on what do you base this suggestion, given your admission that you aren't familiar with Canon Law?

Let me just state one thing Aleksandrov, all churches need to be under the MPC Umbrella and Hierarchy i do respect that i just dont like the way Bishop Petar is doing it he should be uniting people not dividing them.

Please avoid misleading people with insinuations that our communities are against the Macedonian Orthodox Church and Petar is its defender.

The modern independent Macedonian Orthodox Church was established BY the Macedonian Orthodox people, FOR the Macedonian Orthodox people. That is also the basis on which local Macedonian Orthodox churches in Australia have historically been established and registered, starting with the first independent Macedonian Orthodox Church to be registered anywhere in the world, Sv. Georgi in Melbourne, which predates the declaration of independence of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in Macedonia from Serbian jurisdiction. It is also the basis on which Sv. Georgi and other Macedonian Orthodox churches in Australia subsequently affiliated themselves to the independent Macedonian Orthodox Church in the Republic of Macedonia.

Anyone who is loyal to the founding objectives of the modern independent Macedonian Orthodox Church would want to put an end to its usurpation in Australia by a defrocked and suspiciously reinstated bishop who:

1. Disregards the founding objectives of the MOC;
2. Refuses to recognize the legitimacy of Macedonian Orthodox communities and churches that were established and registered in Australia prior to his arrival, and were up to that time recognized by the Synod and individual bishops responsible for Australia;
3. Disregards the current Constitution of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in Macedonia when it doesn't suit him;
4. Disregards any attempts by the Synod to discipline or hold him accountable;
5. Has a proven record of disputing the legitimacy of the declaration of independence by the MOC from the Serbian Church;
6. Has a proven record of trying to change the national identity of the MOC and to put it back under Serbian jurisdiction;
7. Holds services at non-Orthodox temples in order to divert parishioners from Macedonian Orthodox community churches that have historically been recognized by the Synod;
8. Attempts to usurp legal ownership of all Macedonian Orthodox church and community property in Australia so that he can do with it whatever he wishes, including allowing other religions to use it or putting it under trust for another religion;
9. Withdraws or threatens to withdraw priests from Macedonian churches where the communities in charge of property management refuse to meet his demands for money, property and de-registration of the non-profit, charitable organizations that legally own those properties;
10. Has lied to the Parliament of New South Wales that his Diocesan Statute was approved by the Archiepiscopal Church People's Assembly of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in 1996 (which is required by the Constitution of the MOC), when the Archiepiscopal Church People's Assembly DID NOT EVEN CONVENE in 1996 and has NEVER considered his Diocesan Statute;
11. Declares thousands of parishioners as excommunicated and around a dozen priests as defrocked because they have resisted or objected to the acts and omissions listed above.

This is why there should be a dialogue in both sides and MPC needs to take proper action and responsibility for all its actions.

This is why i believe we need to push for a solution and not blame eachother, who is the preferred Bishop you would like to see replace Petar?

Tell that to Petar, Prolet.

Below is the last of many letters that the communities responsible for at least ten Macedonian Orthodox churches in Australia (including the oldest ones) sent to the Synod, requesting direct interference by the Synod to resolve the schism through dialogue. The Synod has never responded. Some of the bishops tell us that this is due to threats by bishop Petar, but perhaps he can tell us why the Synod will not respond to our requests:

[julie]

Aleksandrov, you have provided a ream of evidence and information. Unfortunately I dont think it will make any difference to Petars flock, they have been brainwashed and indoctrinated into the kingdom of heaven for following his lack of transparency , his wealth accumulation, and his selling out to the Serbian archdiocese.

Love your work though batko

[Vangelovski]

Aleksandrov, you have provided a ream of evidence and information. Unfortunately I dont think it will make any difference to Petars flock, they have been brainwashed and indoctrinated into the kingdom of heaven for following his lack of transparency , his wealth accumulation, and his selling out to the Serbian archdiocese.

Love your work though batko

.

Julie,

The only thing they have been indoctrinated into is the Kingdom of Petar

[julie]

Cheers Vangelovski, needed the laugh batko, LMAO, am sure he is working on it as we speak

[Boge]

Bloody ell! Mr Aleksandrov my sincere apologies I questioned you regarding your allegiance once upon a time. All clear now thanks mate.
I note there is a limited response from the "Melbourne activists" here on this very important thread.

[Soldier of Macedon]

What limited response? What are you trying to imply?

[makedonche]

Bloody ell! Mr Aleksandrov my sincere apologies I questioned you regarding your allegiance once upon a time. All clear now thanks mate.
I note there is a limited response from the "Melbourne activists" here on this very important thread.

Boge
Alexandrov's allegiance and dedication to the Macedonian Cause and the macedonian people is beyond reproach and comes at a very high personal cost, as with many other dedicated Macedonian volunteers. When I read comments people make about Alexandrov that questions his dedication or allegiance it makes me extremely angry and I won't tolerate it any longer!
As for other "Melbourne Activists", I think the question needs to be asked of all activists, not just the Melbournians! How can anyone claim to be an activist and not be affected by the information/facts that Alexandrov has posted here? Hopefully it serves as a wake up call and the Macedonian people put their faith in the right people, not the ones who just claim they are the right people!

[Prolet]

On this day 6th of July, ArchBishop Mihail (Metodi Gogov) passed away exactly 11 years ago. He was part of the ASNOM delegation that eventually lead to us becoming a republic on August 2 1944, he also served Prison with the first Macedonian President Metodija Andonov Chento.

Neka mue vecna slava na nashiot vechen Poglavar.

Slava Mu.

[julie]

I remember meeting "popche Goge" what I called him,as a 4 year old, when we went to Macedonia. I asked him if he was Father Christmas and I sat next to him and cuddled him. I felt him to be such a loving and beautiful soul
Neka mue vecna slava
Bog da go prosti

[lavce pelagonski]

IVth MOYA Seminar on Saturday the 14th of August,Melbourne

Dear All,

you are invited to the IVth MOYA Seminar on Saturday the 14th of August. This year,
the topic discussed will be the creation of the Byzantine Sacred Icon and its spiritual
and artistic meaning.

The following is a schedule of the day:
• 8.30am - Divine Liturgy with bishop Petar at St Prohor Pchinsky monastery
130 Springs Road, DONNYBROOK, VIC, 3064,Australia
• 10.30am - Breakfast at St Prohor Pchinsky monastery
130 Springs Road, DONNYBROOK, VIC, 3064,Australia
• 12.00 pm - Icon Painting Demonstration, presented by Abbot Gavril, at
Thomastown Library ,52 Main Street, Thomastown, VIC, 3074, Australia
• 4.00pm - Lunch at St Prohor Pchinsky monastery
130 Springs Road, DONNYBROOK, VIC, 3064,Australia
• 6.00 pm - Byzantine Iconography Lecture at St Prohor Pchinsky monastery
130 Springs Road, DONNYBROOK, VIC, 3064,Australia
• 8.00pm - Vespers at St Prohor Pchinsky monastery
130 Springs Road, DONNYBROOK, VIC, 3064,Australia
• 9.00pm - Evening tea of Macedonian traditional treats will be provided at St Prohor Pchinsky monastery 130 Springs Road, DONNYBROOK, VIC, 3064,Australia

Kind regards
MOYA

[Prolet]

Here is something worth seeing, Ico Najdovski is attacking the Government for not sending out a prestavnik for the 50th anniversary of the Sveti Gjorgjija Church.

Vangelovski, Is it true that in 1960 the Serbian,Greek and Bulgarian Communities filed a lawsuit in order to close down our church?

http://www.vesti.alfa.mk/default.aspx?mId=36&eventId=25587

[Vangelovski]

Here is something worth seeing, Ico Najdovski is attacking the Government for not sending out a prestavnik for the 50th anniversary of the Sveti Gjorgjija Church.

Vangelovski, Is it true that in 1960 the Serbian,Greek and Bulgarian Communities filed a lawsuit in order to close down our church?

http://www.vesti.alfa.mk/default.asp...&eventId=25587

Prolet,

Answering that question will require some research. As such, I will need to charge you a $100 surcharge fee in addition to the normal $50 fee for questions that you pose and have answered by me.

You may want to check Bratot's rates - I heard a rumour he's offering a special discount this week.