Uskana, I have noticed you write Macedonian in the " " marks the majority of the time. I am positive you are doing this as an offense towards Macedonians, in the misguided delusion that your "people" are somehow more 'valid' than ours. If you insult my people in that manner again, you go crawl back into the hole where Turks and 'Slavic Muslims' call themselves Arben and pretend to be Illyrians. You seem capable of normal discussion, don't let yourself down with your Albanocentric clownery and provocations, because you get the same level of courtesy and respect that you give here.
The Macedonian Minority in Albania and Kosovo
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That's a cheap ploy. Compare me to a Greek to win some sympathy on this board (believe me you don't need to compare me to a Greek to get support against me.)
The population of Turkey was barely 20 million in the 1950's. And here's a reason why you would take them in:
http://www.historycommons.org/contex...nation_tmln_40
Do you know that the Kurdish population in Turkey only rapidly increased in the last 20 years? and they managed to reach %11 percent now. They were probably not more than %5 at 1950s. This ridicules theiry is so stupid even for imagining it. Importing Albanians from Yugo to depopulate Kurds!!! Plus, all the Balkan immigrants settled to western Anatolia mostly, some few to central but Kurds lives in eastern Anatolia at Iraq border.
I could never even think that Turkey would get accusations for giving new lives to few sneaky Albanians who pretended to be the Turks to come to Turkey. Thats really shocking and very ungrateful for them. I am sure that the Albanians in turkey doesn't think like that but the ones who does such accusations are really absurd and unfair.
My uncle was European looking, definately no Turkish lineage. Like I said, today they're Turks. Brainwashed Turks. Ironic that many Albanians that emigrated to the West still return back to visit their motherland. Not the case with the Albanians from Turkey. What does this say about Turkey?
Ohh yes, if there is any Turk in the family, then all the children gets Genghis Khan look-a-like face, right? You sound like Greek for the 2nd time mate.
I told you, if you think that the Turks brainwashed him, then weit `till EU gets Albania in and lure them all with EU passport like Bulgars does nowadays but what if his children looks like Mongols, not like a "pretty" european?!! since probably he is married with a turk
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Originally posted by UskanaMy uncle was European looking, definately no Turkish lineage.
Originally posted by OnurOhh yes, if there is any Turk in the family, then all the children gets Genghis Khan look-a-like face, right? You sound like Greek for the 2nd time mate.
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...=Wilkes&page=2
In the matter of physical character skeletal evidence from prehistoric cemeteries suggests no more than average height (male 1.65 m, female 1.53 m). Not much reliance should perhaps be placed on attempts to identify an Illyrian ahtropological type as short and dark-skinned similar to modern Albanians. (The Illyrians, pg. 219).In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Where is this Albanian Orthodox community in Reka? Which villages do they live in?
Ottoman Turks have always lived in Macedonia and during the Ottoman Empire which lasted for more then 500 years its natural that the Turkish Language be the Official Language its no different to us speaking English in Australia and America.
I remember watching an interview of a Senior Turkish Community leader in Kosovo saying how their language and identity is not recognized there, they simply tell them that they are Albanians.
Uskana, Its not Shkup and Manastir its Skopje and Bitola
The old name for Skopje in Turkish is Skupi, there is a place called Skupi in the Skopje region where its very ancient like Stobi for example and Archeologists are digging it up now and investigating it. The Albanians seem to think its ok to rename our cities, so if we were to use your Turkish name it would be Arnauti or Arnautluk.
You dont like being called Shiptari yet you like to enforce Albanian names onto our cities and nationalities how does this work? You are starting to sound like Menduh Tachi and Ali Ahmeti.МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.
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Originally posted by Uskana View PostOk, if you say so.
Many Torbesh have intermarried with Albanians. Near Kercova there is a village called Bacista. They speak Macedonians but claim to be Albanians. This group is looked down upon, like the other Torbesh by the Albanian community.
Originally posted by Uskana View PostI don't claim to be an expert, but from I known many of these villages are empty because many of them have moved to Shkup. I don't know much about these people since there numbers are small, but the common sentiment in the Albanian community is they were Albanian but today they claim to be Macedonian.
I'm not exactly sure, but there numbers are small.
Originally posted by Uskana View PostI understand, but I will still contend the majority of these people were not "Turks" but were Albanian. Of course the source you mention contradicts this info. Like I mentioned, my mother's uncle barely knew any Turkish and he was allowed in Turkey. He had issues coming back though.
As for the Turks living in Kosovo, it does seem that they are afforded minority rights by the government. It seems that the Turks in Mamuşa (where they are 90%+ of the population) do have access to Turkish language facilities etc. It seems that the Turks in Prizren also have minority rights. I will leave my comments regarding them, at this point. However, as is expected, I am sure that there are social preassures urging them to assimilated into the wider Albanian majority.
Uskana, I read somewhere that the richer Albanian families of Skopje and Tetovo used to speak Turkish at home up until the 1970s as a sign of prestige. Can you confirm/deny this?
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostUnfortunately, his uncle appears to be a rarity according to some, take John Wilkes' book for example, and his statement regarding today's Albanians:
SOM, what if Evliya Celebi was telling the truth about Albanians being Arabian immigrants?
Then our Albanian fella is right because Arabs doesn't look like Turks. Therefore Albanians shouldn't look like us either but there is one misconception here that Uskana thinks that it`s "European look"
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Originally posted by Serdarot View Postagain la la land?
take less drugs, dude
the Albanians from Kosovo are doing all kinds of terror against non-Albanian population.
most of the Gipsies, Macedonians, Serbs and other non-shiptars were / are forced to leave their homes.
your stories you can tell to CNN and BBC, after you force your children cry with help of onion.
save your propaganda bs for those who are not informed, we know you TOO good
Can you find me just a single example that Gipsies, Macedonians, Serbs and other non-Albanian are forced to leave their homes? There are many international institutions here in Kosova. They do not record any expulsion of minorities as you blatantly speculate!
Albanians are known for their proverbial tolerance over ethnic and religious minorities. Albanians never conquered or pulled out ethnic minorities as did Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs with thousand innocent ethnic Albanians, Macedonians, Turks, Jews, Bosniaks, etc. Full stop!IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!
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Originally posted by Pelister View PostIn Prizren (Kosovo) the UN records show about 50,000 people who identified themselves as Torbeshi. This is interesting because 'Torbesh' is a Macedonian designation. As far as I am aware the Gorani call themselves 'Gorani' but believe they are Macedonians.IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!
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Originally posted by VMRO View PostI read somewhere where some Gorani claim to be Macedonians who originated from Resen where their ancestors left in the 18th/19th century.IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!
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Welcome back Epirot, interesting how you make an appearance around the same time another Albanian recently starts posting here at the MTO. Are you and Uskana familiar to each other?In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostWelcome back Epirot, interesting how you make an appearance around the same time another Albanian recently starts posting here at the MTO. Are you and Uskana familiar to each other?
I really do not know how many Albanians are members here since in all threads I posted there were not Albanians debaters.
Seriously, I'm not USKANA!IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!
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Originally posted by Mastika View PostSo they shouold be looked down upon by other Macedonian Muslim/Torbesh and Orthodox Macedonian groups. There are villages across Macedonia where the Macedonian muslims are being Albanised. This is happening across Macedonia in Debar, Struga, the Torbesija, Tetovo, Kicevo and North Pelagonija. This is sadly happening. It seems that only a few villages identifying themselves on the census as being ethnically Macedonian and being Muslims. Most prefer to write themselves down as Albanians, Turks, Muslims or Bosniaks, for bullshit reasons.
This group is virtually non existant in their former villages. The "Albanian" inhabitants left are primarily Muslim, and thus would never have been Shkreti anyway. I can only think in a few villages such as Vrben, which were Shkreti in the past but Macedonian now. To claim that these people are not Macedonian is offensive to them, seeing as they have no links to the Albanian nation nor do they observe Albanian customs. If you have been to Vrben (which is the largest former Shkreti village left) you will know what I am talking about.
What does Shkreti mean in Macedonian?
You are very much mistaken here. The main areas targeted by this emigration to Turkey were the Turkish villages of Eastern Macedonia as well as the Tikvesh Macedonian Muslim villages. The emigration was effective. Most of the Turkish villages are either empty or populated by under 100 people. Some Albanians did get through however the emigration scheme was neither aimed at Albanians nor were Albanians the largest Muslim group to leave Macedonia.Turkey agrees to accept 200,000 Albanians, Turks, and Muslims from Kosovo and Macedonia, though the 1921 census counted only 50,000 Turkish speakers in Yugoslavia. Turkey wants to use them to increase the population of parts of Anatolia and around Kurdistan, especially Diyarbakir, Elazig, and Yozgat, which are worse for agriculture than the areas the deportees left. Some settle in Bursa, Istanbul, Tekirdag, Izmir, Kocaeli, and Ekisehir. Most are deported on the Skopje-Thessaloniki railroad, then by another train or ship to eastern Turkey. Despite accepting the emigrants, Turkey’s parliament refuses to ratify the agreement, which scholar Miranda Vickers will later attribute to a change of government in Yugoslavia in 1939, lack of funds, and the impending world war. [VICKERS, 1998, PP. 117-120; KOLA, 2003, PP. 21, 102]Subsequently, from the 1950s to the 1970s, Yugoslav Albanians will be encouraged to identify as Turkish, through the establishment of Turkish language schools and media. The Albanian population will also be intimidated by the security forces. An agreement will be concluded with Turkey in 1953 under which Turkey will accept deported Yugoslav Albanians.
The Turkification of the Albanians was used to justify the depopulation of Albanian areas.
Uskana, I read somewhere that the richer Albanian families of Skopje and Tetovo used to speak Turkish at home up until the 1970s as a sign of prestige. Can you confirm/deny this?
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Originally posted by Onur View Post
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Originally posted by Uskana View PostTruth be told, many of these Macedonian Muslims are not being assimilated by force in Albania. They feel closer to Albanians and many feel integrated within Albanian society. A shared religion with the Albanians probably helps. Like I mentioned, the Orthodox Albanians in Macedonia have been assimilated into Macedonian culture as well. A similar religion with the Macedonians was the main factor for this. I blame the Albanians in our case for not reaching out to these people.
We recognise Albanians and give them full rights, we expect the same for the ALL the Macedonians living in Albania.
Originally posted by Uskana View PostI've yet to go to any of these places but from the videos I've seen online, they share much with the Albanians. Similar weddings, similar dress and so forth. Many of the older folks still speak Albanian.
What does Shkreti mean in Macedonian?
Yes there are many aspects similar. This is the Balkans, all our cultures have strong parallels.
It seems that Shkreti originates from the Geg word for 'Slav', Шкја/Shkja. I do not know Albanian so I cannot comment further.
Originally posted by Uskana View PostUnfortunately this is true. Some even speak it at home today. My father's Albanian teacher from Tetova spoke Turkish to his children at home. Ironic.
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