Census' in the Republic of Macedonia

[Risto the Great]

I believe that the 20-25+% figure for the shiptar MINORITY in Macedonia is a Western (USA & EU) fabricated myth that has been used in an insidious and deliberate manner to shower the shiptari with rights that have created a defacto autonomy for them within Macedonia.

This was the reward for the Macedonian shiptari to end the insurgency (from Kosovo) in Macedonia in 2001.

This almost suggests the USA has a sense of moral justice. No, this was done to create a perpetual discord in the nation. USA can play with Macedonia's testicles any time by playing with this discord that was created by them. Imagine what Macedonia would be like if it was a sovereign nation!

[ProMKD]

This is just another nail Ramkovist coffin (none of which have been utilised mind you) and the first bit of 'good' news I've seen in a while (Where's Bill77 to share this with???). If nothing else, its at least more evidence that Albanian numbers are not as high as claimed and should therefore, be more reason to fear the Albanians even less! Many scaremongers have claimed that the Albanians would go to war over the FA. Maybe they would, but if they are only 17% of the population (as opposed to the claimed 25%), then there is even less reason to fear Albanian aggression.

There should be no fear anyways. When Alexander was outnumbered 10 times by the Persians, not only did he not fear, he INVADED them and took slaves! When the ottomans had our country under their iron fist, there were many more of them than us. The point is, we can't let it get to the point where we're outnumbered. Too many Macedonians have fought and died for the small and beautiful piece of land that we have left that is independent. This has to be our home base, where the Macedonians of Aegean and Pirin Macedonia can someday join and be united again.

[George S.]

pro i'm born in bitolsko.But i love the whole of macedonia as one.

[The LION will ROAR]

Колку Албанци има во Македонија?
The Albanians have in Macedonia?

http://www.kurir.mk/makedonija/vesti/45708-Kolku-Albanci-ima-vo-Makedonija

Google translator

One suspect and one census to fail just one decade. To whom is deemed to count as? Obviously those who claim that there are many more than you actually live in our country

Kurir news agency analiza make about which direction is the demographic trends in Macedonia and is made of forged 2002 census.

According to the last census in 2002 in Macedonia has a total of 2,022,547 inhabitants, of which Macedonians 1,297,981 or 64.18 percent. The number of Albanians is 509,083 or 25.17 percent.

The ethnic structure includes 3.85 percent 2.66 percent Turks and Roma, while ethnic Serbs make up 1.78 percent of the population.

As to the religious affiliation of the population 64.7 percent are Orthodox and 33.3 percent are Muslims.

It is particularly interesting as growing number of Albanians from inventory to inventory.

The first census in 1953 in Macedonia are Albanian residents registered 162,534 or 12.5 percent of the total population in the country. The census in 1971 their number was 279,900. In 1981 their number increased to 377,700 or 21 percent, to their number in 1991 reached 484,228 or 23 percent.

In 2002, 506,083 thousand people in Macedonia declared themselves as Albanians.

A great increase of the Albanian population in the period from 1953 to 2002. Their number of 162 thousand increased to 506 thousand or 50 years the number of Albanians increased by more than three times.

In 1953 the relationship between the Macedonian and the Albanian population was 6-1 in 1994 this ratio is already 3:1.

The 2002 census, the number of Albanians in the country increased by 68,000 compared with the previous census, while the number of ethnic Macedonians in 2017 increased





The reason for this increase. Representatives of the Albanian ethnic community is unanimous that the increase is due to the positive growth prioroden ie the birth they have Albanians.

But research shows that positive natural increase although there is increasing influence on the Albanian population is the smallest compared to other factors.

Frequently it comes to assimilation of the Macedonian Muslims, mechanical inflow and display unrealistic or falsification of results of the inventories.

As to the mechanical flow of population was particularly large migration of Albanians from Kosovo in Macedonia

Thus, in 1994 only a year the state received 150 thousand new citizens come from Kosovo. The new figures came to light shortly before the presidential elections in 1994, won by Kiro Gligorov, thanks to these new voters.

All these people figure both as citizens of Macedonia, Kosovo and Albania, but the fact is that most of them living in our country and those who have given citizenship and that is Ministry of Interior headed by Ljubomir Frckovski made it the illegal way.

What is the actual number of Albanians who live in our country, obviously nobody knows. But staisticharite and demographers are unanimous that it is possible their number to increase so quickly and so many.

The edition "Macedonia in figures" from the Bureau of Statistics, from 1999 to 2009, population growth was 31,144 persons, or approximately 3,000 new citizens each year. While according to the results of the census of 2002 only the number of Albanians increased by 68 thousand. Which means that the number of Albanians should be annually increased by 8,500 residents that is contradictory to the data from the Office.

But perhaps what we most fear Albanian politicians is that the number of Albanians not only increases but also decreases.

The demographic transition in the Albanian population occurs with unexpected speed. So the people with the highest birthrate in Europe for several years because of changing cultural values and large Albanians emigration could have a negative natural growth.

No accurate data on what is the birthrate of the Albanians in Macedonia, but when it comes to births of their compatriots in Kosovo and Albania, he soon falls in Europe.

In 2010 in Kosovo 26 thousand children were born, and only ten years ago there are born annually 55 thousand children.

The number of births in Albania during 2009 was 29 thousand, compared to only 1990 in this same country were born 82 thousand children.

According to the CIA of a woman in Albania comes to an average 1.48 children born Mon. Demographers claim to a positive natural increase is necessary in any average woman bore 2.1 children.

That in these countries not only increases the total population but it decreases show last statisichki data.

So according to the CIA in Albania 2,999,000 thousand inhabitants live although she claimed land in 2010 will have 3.5 million inhabitants.

Also according to unofficial results of the last census in Kosovo Albanians live about 1.7 million, and claimed that their number amounted to 2.2 million residents.

Albanians still have a positive natural increase, thus reducing their numbers is due to emigration to Western countries.

Tukmu with the Albanian population that are performed most iseluva manipulations.

For how many Albanians go abroad annually requested a response from the State Statistical Office.

- They will have no data because it is such a category that also varies. Some other moving migrate Kiril Angelov us answers that follow the natural movement of population in Macedonia.

But that number is really big. It can be seen if we went to some of the Albanian schools.

Directors of some of these uchilshta yourself say that every year reduces the number of uenici, example is Ibrahim Temo high school in Struga.

If last year the school enrolled 223 students, their number this year is only the 169th

Deputy Director Sonya Stolevska says the number of classes this year is even less than the two previous years. As one of the reasons for this situation she says is frequent departure of Albanian families abroad.

A number of demographics and statisticians argue that Macedonia have odseleno 150 thousand Albanians. If 500 thousand 150 thousand subtract these then you may get to the real figure of the Albanian population in Macedonia and it is 350 thousand, or about 18 percent of the population.

[Big Bad Sven]

"Thus, in 1994 only a year the state received 150 thousand new citizens come from Kosovo. The new figures came to light shortly before the presidential elections in 1994, won by Kiro Gligorov, thanks to these new voters."

We have been saying this in the past before and argued with internet shiptars about this, yet they didnt believe us.
The kosovo shiptar refugees were given macedonian voting rights via being issued macedonian passports/citezenship, which helped SDSM win power in those times.

Most of the shiptars went back to kosovo, but a smaller percentage stayed in macedonia, and some would still wonder between macedonia and kosovo.

It seems most of these new arrivals have left macedonia, and the real percentage of macedonian albanians has surfaced - 17% of the population. Add this with dirty shiptar tactics of falsifying census data and pressuring non albanian muslims to declare themselves as albanian, this all explains the grossly inflated percentage of "albanians" in macedonia.

And to think that internet shiptar propaganda told us that shiptars made up to 50% of macedonia

[George S.]

BBS you are right on to it & i fuly agree with you.How long is this govt going to pussyfoot around.The collatoral damage is just too much as the albanians are even contemplating taking even the capital if they haven't allready..Even places they never set foot are being taken as we speak based on these stupid counts.

[lavce pelagonski]

Груев�ки: Попи�от е фал�ификат (изјава од 2002 година) - YouTube

[George S.]

thats good lavce i whole hrartedly agree.

[Zarni]

Why haven’t the Census officials held with the responsibly of conducting a far and legal count been charged and removed from their positions

Or better why doesn’t Macedonia declare it will not conduct a census until Sofia and Tirana are reigned in by the EU first

I want to see a census conducted to highlight the true Albanian number which I believe is 12-17 %

[Risto the Great]

Justice Minister Blerim Bexheti

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=macedonia-halts-census-after-dispute-2011-10-16

Macedonia halts census after dispute
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Sunday, October 16, 2011
SKOPJE - Agence France-Presse
The Macedonian parliament Oct. 15 approved the halting of a census after alleged attempts to artificially boost the number of ethnic Albanians and Turkish minorities by presenting fake IDs led to the resignation of the counting body.

The multi-ethnic governing coalition said in a statement late Oct. 12 that it had decided to end the census, which began on Oct. 1, after the commission in charge resigned Oct. 11 saying the results would not be reliable. The opposition walked out of the vote over the failure to launch a probe whether organizers were responsible for supposedly inflating numbers.

Justice Minister Blerim Bexheti said the problems were caused by a “lack of a timeframe to educate” inexperienced staff. He said all census material collected would be destroyed. The new census will be held next year, parliament officials said. Problems arose when ethnic Albanian census takers accepted as proof of residence copies of the identity documents of Albanians who have lived abroad for more than a year, from their family members left behind. There has been a dispute about the interpretation of the law, with Macedonian residents and commission members protesting the practice.

On the eve of the census, the head of the census commission resigned in protest against plans announced by ethnic Albanian and Turkish minorities to present fake IDs to census takers. The country’s last population census in 2002 showed that 64 percent of the population of some two million people was Macedonian, and 25 percent ethnic Albanians. The Balkans country was on the brink of civil war in 2001 as ethnic Albanians launched an armed uprising demanding more rights. A seven-month conflict ended with an internationally-brokered peace agreement guaranteeing minority rights.

Nice when your (ethnic Albanian) justice minister attempts to cover up the real reason why the census went pear shaped isn't it. Yet another confirmation of why Macedonians in Macedonia cannot see what is happening in their own country.

[makedonche]

RTG
Another reason for me to continue lobbying for the return of these criminals to their own countries - talk about trying to bite the hand that feeds you! And why is there no enquiry into the Minister of Justice's handling of this whole incident? Why is he being allowed to destroy all census material collected? Isn't this census material evidence that should be collated and referred to in a governmental enquiry? Where's the EU to come and do an enquiry into whether thier standards have been breached and those responsible punished?

[Vangelovski]

RTG
Another reason for me to continue lobbying for the return of these criminals to their own countries - talk about trying to bite the hand that feeds you! And why is there no enquiry into the Minister of Justice's handling of this whole incident? Why is he being allowed to destroy all census material collected? Isn't this census material evidence that should be collated and referred to in a governmental enquiry? Where's the EU to come and do an enquiry into whether thier standards have been breached and those responsible punished?

I don't think the inquiry process exists in Macedonia, as it does in actual democratic states. I hear that 20 years isn't long implement the concept.

[George S.]

the macedonian govt was helping them whether they knew it or not.It has taken a long time to act.THey knew where it was going to lead.Also action for the terorists was completely dispensed with.They knew what the albanians in the first couple of years of independence that they were building tunnels under tetovo for future reprisals & also they were building up a huge cache of arms getting it ready for the 2001 fighting.So it's not that they didn't know.God knows what else they are doing under their noses.I'm aware that there is a whole black market doing all sorts of subversive things by the albanians from criminal acitivity to no paying of taxes etc.

[makedonche]

I don't think the inquiry process exists in Macedonia, as it does in actual democratic states. I hear that 20 years isn't long implement the concept.

Vangelovski
That would be about right!
What astounds me is the use of EU guidelines for the conduct of the census! What are the EU guidelines for the abuse/breach of law, relating to the census? Where are the Eurocrats hiding now, why isn't Fuele and Barrosso and the other dipshits saying anything now?

[Risto the Great]

Where's the EU to come and do an enquiry into whether thier standards have been breached and those responsible punished?

The EU said it was excellent:

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=111604&postcount=1

"It is more than certain that Macedonia will conduct a successful census ... The country is ready for reliable and qualitative data collection,"

The question is: Why were they saying it.



I am disgusted that the Justice Minister of Macedonia felt compelled to make excuses for his brethren.