The Macedonian Minority in Bulgaria

[Tomche Makedonche]

Fair enough.

Remember, in this arena, judgement of character is formed from the views conveyed within the contents of your posts. Right now, the views you have conveyed within the majority of your posts justify questioning the validity of your character and how such ideologies ultimately conflict with the idea of a free and independent Macedonia for the Macedonians.

If this was not your intention, then I suggest you take a moment of reflection and think through the logical conclusions of your future statements so as to define what you stand for. Once you feel you have, then I would say the majority would be happy to take into consideration your opinion on a more serious level, after all, like I mentioned before, Macedonians need to start to learn to understand one another if we are ever going to evolve and survive as a people.

[vicsinad]

Remember, in this arena, judgement of character is formed from the views conveyed within the contents of your posts.

That is only part true. (Mis)Judgement of character is also formed from the biases and state-of-mind the reader or evaluator brings to the assessment.

[George S.]

Does not apply to bs artists who do not admit who they are.They are out to deceive other people.State of mind is you were hallucinating on a identity drug that you were an albanian to us but according to you dressed in macedonian clothing.So whatever you did was a wasted space & time.In other words you are bloody clown & fool to boot.

[Risto the Great]

That is only part true. (Mis)Judgement of character is also formed from the biases and state-of-mind the reader or evaluator brings to the assessment.

That will always be the case. However, the morsels of intent you have blessed this forum with include the following:

- You wanted people to vote for your father as a Diaspora candidate of the SDSm party. (Followers to this party walk around with Serb flags)
- You think there is nothing wrong with playing Serbian or Greek music at Macedonian events. It doesn't degrade the Macedonian identity. You like Serbian music.
- You think the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia deserve the rights afforded to them under the Badinter principle.
- You don't like the OFA but believe the Badinter principle is not the problem with it. You have never explained the reason why you don't like the OFA other than to say Badinter is not the problem.
- You identify "a time where Vardar Macedonians stopped looking at Serbs as occupiers" and cannot seem to understand how that has effected the modern Macedonian identity.

Not sure if there is much more, but this kind of what we have on the plate about you.

My "state of mind" tells me that you are Macedonian but would best serve Macedonia's interests by staying out of matters pertaining to sovereignty for the Macedonian people. You will only confuse them with serious doses of wishywashyness.

[vicsinad]

That will always be the case. However, the morsels of intent you have blessed this forum with include the following:

- You wanted people to vote for your father as a Diaspora candidate of the SDSm party. (Followers to this party walk around with Serb flags)
- You think there is nothing wrong with playing Serbian or Greek music at Macedonian events. It doesn't degrade the Macedonian identity. You like Serbian music.
- You think the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia deserve the rights afforded to them under the Badinter principle.
- You don't like the OFA but believe the Badinter principle is not the problem with it. You have never explained the reason why you don't like the OFA other than to say Badinter is not the problem.
- You identify "a time where Vardar Macedonians stopped looking at Serbs as occupiers" and cannot seem to understand how that has effected the modern Macedonian identity.

Not sure if there is much more, but this kind of what we have on the plate about you.

My "state of mind" tells me that you are Macedonian but would best serve Macedonia's interests by staying out of matters pertaining to sovereignty for the Macedonian people. You will only confuse them with serious doses of wishywashyness.

First, your biases and state-of-mind led you to negate one of my very first posts, for which you "agreed with my conclusion."

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5553

Try being a little more objective.

Second, point by point:

-Yes, my father would have been an excellent representative. Sure, some SDSM followers walk around with the Serb flags, some VMRO members walk around with the Bulgar flag, and most politicians are inept or corrupt. However, most Macedonians from Macedonia that vote (and the Diaspora) either fall under SDSM or VMRO, and to state that being a member or supporter of either of those party already means that your Macedonianism should be question is ridiculous. My father has done much for the Macedonian Cause and to promote Macedonian culture, and of course I wanted to give people the option to vote for him.

-That is not accurate. I said I don't care whether Macedonians play Serb or Greek or whatever music at their own private family events. In addition, I said I wouldn't play anything but Mak music at my events. And yes, I like some Serb music like I like some Croat, Bosnian, Spanish, Italian and Russian music. However, I have been totally against things like playing Serb or other music at Macedonian parties and conventions.

-I believe the only "right" the Badinter Principle gives to the Albanians is to veto certain matters in Parliament. Yes, I am okay with that.

-That's because the MTO has an inability to proceed in discussions without attacks and insults. Yes, calling me anti-Macedonian is an insult.

-Yes, I think many Macedonians in Vardar Macedonia stopped looking at Serbs as occupiers. The basic fact is that Yugoslavia tried to Yugoslavianize the people, not Serbianize. The other basic fact is under Yugoslavia, Macedonians had it "relatively" good compared to Macedonians in Bulgaria and Greece.

All that said, I stand by what I said then, and what I said now.

[Vangelovski]

-I believe the only "right" the Badinter Principle gives to the Albanians is to veto certain matters in Parliament. Yes, I am okay with that.

That fact that you support the Badinter Principle in the Framework Agreement is one of your key anti-Macedonian triats. It is an anti-Macedonian provision in an anti-Macedonian agreement. In fact, its also an anti-democratic and racist provision and fundamental in upholding special privileges. You're the only one that hasn't yet come to terms with this fact.

[Risto the Great]

First, your biases and state-of-mind led you to negate one of my very first posts, for which you "agreed with my conclusion."

Nice. What a shame you don't agree with your self.

"the identity and existence of a people can never be negotiated"

Macedonians presently cannot self-determine matters on culture or ethnicity which are at the very core of identity and existence. Macedonians in Macedonia need ethnic Albanians to agree on these matters in a manner which violates the rights of Macedonians. That is Badinter in a nutshell. So your article was in fact meaningless fluff when taken in context with your proven and disturbing mindset.

The rest of your points were merely helping paint a picture of your beliefs. But they can change from time to time.

[Chiche]

Me again I do not know vicsinad, but why so much aggression aimed at him, must ONE totally agree with all the MTO leaders beliefs???

[Risto the Great]

You said "point by point" but still didn't address the OFA other than to say you feel insulted.

- You don't like the OFA but believe the Badinter principle is not the problem with it. You have never explained the reason why you don't like the OFA other than to say Badinter is not the problem.

Give it a go.

Here is the part I don't like:

Article 69
. . .
(2) For laws that directly affect culture, use of language, education, personal documentation, and use of
symbols, the Assembly makes decisions by a majority vote of the Representatives attending, within which
there must be a majority of the votes of the Representatives attending who claim to belong to the
communities not in the majority in the population of Macedonia. In the event of a dispute within the
Assembly regarding the application of this provision, the Committee on Inter-Community Relations shall
resolve the dispute.

I do however like the fact that is is included in Article 69, which makes it very clear that both parties need to be servicing each other at precisely the same time with extreme satisfaction in order for Macedonians to pursue their own "laws that directly affect culture, use of language, education, personal documentation, and use of symbols"

[Risto the Great]

Me again I do not know vicsinad, but why so much aggression aimed at him, must ONE totally agree with all the MTO leaders beliefs???

Not at all Chiche.
The real question is what your beliefs actually are. If you are a fool with misguided beliefs, I would then question your ability to help the Macedonian Cause ... other than being cannon fodder.

But you Chiche come across as a nice touchy feely kind of guy who loves all Macedonians no matter how misguided they are. There comes a time when some Macedonians should no longer qualify in shaping the direction of Macedonia's future. I would not let Grkomani run our little community in Adelaide ... nor would I let Srbomani do it ... nor FYROMani etc. But that is just principled little old me.

[George S.]

Chiche you are misconstruing what is said you are often running away & misconstruing something by saying it's offensive.The sad fact many times both RTG & Tom paint a stark picture of reality from an independent view.Whether you like it or not that is the human condition of reality in macedonia.You cannot i'm sure no matter how hard you choose to ignore it change black to white or white to black .You are trying to moderate & say how it's not so bad & you say how you readily accept one thing after another but those things are so anti macedonian& are anti cause.So you should prick up your ears when RTG or TOM is telling you about the macedonian question as relating to the macedonian people's condition & their human rights.You find it hard to accept what is happening in macedonia,because of your particular mindset.WE have to state the truth whether we like it or not .Macedonia cannot turn the clock back because it has made the choice to behave in a certain way,there are many things affected in ROM that even the ROM govt doesn't know or is hiding from things.The people themselve are lost in their own mindset of self imposed slavery.What we need is a revolution of the mind & then liberating both mind & body cause the people to have a revolution.Maybe then people will see what is going on & what it means to fight for freedom.I'ts no use talking to people who have been fyromised.That is they have accepted the causes & beleifs of fyromians.So in effect everything has become topsy turvy for macedonia & it's people.One would expect there would be a sort of self loco motion to drive the people forward.You would think the people would awaken & revolt on the ROM govt.Perhaps but something must start to get the ball rolling.Lets not hide from facts the very things that are stated to you plainly by Messers RTG & TOM you seem to shy away & we have noticed before that people actually favour anti macedonian without realising.The thing is you have to realise & be imbibed with the truth,learn to accept what is happening to macedonia before you can save macedonia.The responsiblity is to each individual.

[Chiche]

The Truth??? Who's Truth??? Many differing Truths are out there!!!

The fact is no one knows the truth!!

Do not TELL people on the forum, what you believe to be the truth. Put your case across in a intelligent way without abuse, THEN LET US MAKE UP OUR OWN MINDS, whether we choose to believe your TRUTH.

[Risto the Great]

Chiche, that has all been done for years now.
What sort of person would come in with all guns blazing without reading all of the background.

You didn't even read our Macedonian Cause before you started making all kinds of assumptions about us. Imagine comparing us to other organisations who cannot even tell you what they are committed to.

[Chiche]

You misunderstand me, I like you Lad's-Your my kind of people

[Risto the Great]

It has been pretty easy to misunderstand you to be honest.

I haven't been a lad for years Chiche notwithstanding the fact that I have clearly retained my exquisite good looks.