The Macedonian Minority in Bulgaria

[julie]

optimist, enjoy your stay here, methinks it wont be a long one your sarcasm and racism wont be tolerated here.
You are dribbling your pathetic rants and raves, annexed a part of Macedonia and deny the basic human right to my people. You also denied entry to our dignitaries who afford yours the same priveleges a couple of months ago, and enforced a fascist regime on my people.

I suggest you take a little while to think about what you are writing, and stop denying us our ethnicity and our right to continue our existence, which has been ongoing for thousands of years, unlike your Turkish gypsy self

[Bill77]

Some things never change

[lavce pelagonski]

mizi majko da te lazam Optimist your words mean nothing here

[Soldier of Macedon]

I haven't heard about that and I've been to almost every city in Western Bulgaria - no Macedonian in sight.

Perhaps you should try opening your eyes in addition to your mind.

I appreciate that you love your country but you should accept some facts not just make them up or listen to politicians that brainwash you sometimes in order for you to re-elect them.

I would appreciate it if a resentful Bulgar like yourself wouldn't insinuate that Macedonians are brainwashed, as we are fully aware of our own history. It is you that has been brainwashed with fairytales consisting of a conglomerate of horse-riding Khans, Slavonic teachers and Orpheus. Don't look too far from your own yard if you want to criticise, I can assure you there is plenty to discuss about the historical narratives plucked out of your country.

Does your History have any admittance worldwide ?

Does yours? What do you mean worldwide? Have you went to Tanzania to ask them for their admittance?

There is no proof of that anywhere as much as in Macedonia about the Pirin region. Show me a statistic and proof and I'll believe it.

Census' were carried out after WWII. Are you pretending not to be aware of these?

About Alexander the Great - its like saying that because Athens was a different country from Greece, nowadays Athenians are not Greeks, they're descendants of Athena.

An ignorant and irrelevant statement.

You may have some history but in every worldwide document you are regarded as a nation since the 19th century.

Another ignorant statement. We asserted ourselves as a nation in the 19th century like the rest of the Balkans including yourselves, but our history begins earlier than that period, and only a blind fool would say otherwise today after all of the information that has been revealed. Do yourself a favour a research the forum, and then challenge everything, one at a time.

And the BIG QUESTION : How come Macedonia doesn't allow research on the History of Macedonians ? Is there any shocking truth ?

Macedonia "doesn't allow" research? How does it stop others from researching? What are you babbling about?

By the way, welcome to the MTO, excellent entrance and introduction on your behalf, I hope you achieved your aim and the perception you expected.

[optimist]

Goodbye

I see there's no use to try and talk. You should look at the Ottoman ethnic maps and see if there's a Macedonian nationality there. And this map may be useful to clear you up about that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bu...orBozhinov.png

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

SoM, doesn't this guy remind of Mr. "greek" wikipedia? whatever his name was.

I see there's no use to try and talk.

We could say the same thing about you. Why are you leaving so fast? SoM asked you questions, and others posted documents. I was hoping you would stay and show us more of your "evidence" by answering people's questions and replying to posts.

[Onur]

Although I'm not so sure about the Gagaus.

You are not sure cuz your country considers them as Bulgars in censuses even tough their mothertongue is Turkish for 1000 years like other Gagauzes in Moldova, Greece, Macedonia etc. I`ve even read that your recently kicked out diaspora minister said that Gagauz people are true Bulgars!!! Well, if he was talking about the real Bulgars who spoke Turkic, just like the true Bulgars from Volga region, he is absolutely right but if he is talking about current fake Bulgars of Sofia then NO, cuz fake Bulgars doesn't speak Turkish but they speak a language formed and standardized by Russians after 1878 AD.

Does your History have any admittance worldwide?There is no proof of that anywhere as much as in Macedonia about the Pirin region. Show me a statistic and proof and I'll believe it.

What you talk about is propaganda. Worldwide admittance or denial doesn't changes the truth. You cant make history with people`s admittance, you can only create propaganda with this way.

My grandparents was living in Petric b4 Balkan wars and they always told me that it was a city where Macedonians and Turks lives. They always told me that Bulgars was coming from northern side to work in the fields in short seasons but local christians was Macedonians only.

[Risto the Great]

I like Bulgarians, they remind me of something like Asian Macedonians.
I can only wonder what they would look like today had it not been for the Macedonian migrations over 100 years ago. If half of Sofia was comprised of Macedonians as well as pretty much all of Pirin, we soon see what is good or familiar about Bulgaria.

[Frank]

Athens and Sofia will admit nothing because Macedonia and the Macedonians shape and shake Bulgarian and Greek Identity. Up until the 1950s the Bulgarian State recognised the Macedonian Minority and if we merely are ghosts why does Sofia refuse even under overwhelming right the Macedonian Political Party and in 2009 arrest 6,000 Macedonians in the Pirin region during it's election campaign.

Bulgarians I too find amusing they owe everything to us Macedonians that is why their academics are the most openly blatant liars and even manufacturer and doctor archaeological evidence. Whilst their state run media mock Macedonia with a brush work like Stalinist Communism.

[optimist]

Why does no one recognize your ethnicity then ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_%28ethnic_group%29

It says - South Slavic people.... even your own first president said you were Slavs not Ancient Macedonians.... and even Bulgaria's capital was in Ohrid, there are no records of there being a Macedonian ethnicity, who would be mad enough to move his capital to a place where foreign ethnicities live ? And how come there was no Macedonian uprisings, if not of people who say they are Bulgarians ? Macedonians are only the Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks and 30% Albanians who live in Macedonia but are brainwashed by politicians, or the best part - people who started a different dialect from slavs somewhat in the 6-7th century.
And why so happy about the false scientific research done by nationalistic parties and professors who specialise in history of Bulgarian communism.... I would be more worried about the unoficial Macedonian census which says that "260 000 roma live in Macedonia" and that there are 30% Albanians ! They even posted a research saying that CIA wrote that there are 1 million Albanians in Macedonia.
You may be an ethnic group but you were never the slavic teachers, we stole nothing from you, the 2009 things that say there was oppression was never proven, if we did it the EU would've sanctioned us by now. Buglaria was always the Slavic teacher of all, we even gave home to the creators of the alphabet all Slavs use and asked them to research on other alphabets and scholar things as well....
And on top - Did Bulgaria destroy Macedonia during the Second Balkan war ? Did it do things like Greece or Serbia ? Why not hate Serbia for even making you join Yugoslavia and for its even harder attrocities in macedonia ? We even gave you home and were the first ones to admit your countries, for what ? Feed a dog to bark you after that.
And to Onur - fine that Petrich was Macedonian and Turkish... because it wasn't part of our country then.... see a map, its on the border with Greece, it was Turkish then.

[Daskalot]

Does your History have any admittance worldwide ? I can say that Bulgaria created Rome, or that Bulgarians created China, if I'm a politician and make it a propaganda, what will you say to that ? There is no proof of that anywhere as much as in Macedonia about the Pirin region. Show me a statistic and proof and I'll believe it. About Alexander the Great - its like saying that because Athens was a different country from Greece, nowadays Athenians are not Greeks, they're descendants of Athena. You may have some history but in every worldwide document you are regarded as a nation since the 19th century. And the BIG QUESTION : How come Macedonia doesn't allow research on the History of Macedonians ? Is there any shocking truth ?

Here is some statistic proof:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/2008/08/08/macedonians-recognized-in-the-bulgarian-census-of-1946/

So will you accept the truth?

[Daskalot]

Why does no one recognize your ethnicity then ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_%28ethnic_group%29

It says - South Slavic people.... even your own first president said you were Slavs not Ancient Macedonians.... and even Bulgaria's capital was in Ohrid, there are no records of there being a Macedonian ethnicity, who would be mad enough to move his capital to a place where foreign ethnicities live ? And how come there was no Macedonian uprisings, if not of people who say they are Bulgarians ? Macedonians are only the Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks and 30% Albanians who live in Macedonia but are brainwashed by politicians, or the best part - people who started a different dialect from slavs somewhat in the 6-7th century.
And why so happy about the false scientific research done by nationalistic parties and professors who specialise in history of Bulgarian communism.... I would be more worried about the unoficial Macedonian census which says that "260 000 roma live in Macedonia" and that there are 30% Albanians ! They even posted a research saying that CIA wrote that there are 1 million Albanians in Macedonia.
You may be an ethnic group but you were never the slavic teachers, we stole nothing from you, the 2009 things that say there was oppression was never proven, if we did it the EU would've sanctioned us by now. Buglaria was always the Slavic teacher of all, we even gave home to the creators of the alphabet all Slavs use and asked them to research on other alphabets and scholar things as well....
And on top - Did Bulgaria destroy Macedonia during the Second Balkan war ? Did it do things like Greece or Serbia ? Why not hate Serbia for even making you join Yugoslavia and for its even harder attrocities in macedonia ? We even gave you home and were the first ones to admit your countries, for what ? Feed a dog to bark you after that.
And to Onur - fine that Petrich was Macedonian and Turkish... because it wasn't part of our country then.... see a map, its on the border with Greece, it was Turkish then.

You seem to think that 'Bulgar' thru out the centuries meant exactly the same thing as todays national and ethnic identity when it as of a fact had multiple meanings.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Can someone change his username to "Wikipedia Knucklehead"?

[George S.]

optimist you have displayed total ignorance of real understanding of real history.You have let your bulgarian government propaganda shine through.Let me disprove the slav theory to you.
Macedonia is one of the few countries that has kept it's name & identity from prehistoric times.Bulgaria & the real bulgarians ceased to exist thousands of years ago replaced by the tartars or mongolian people.These people were illirate & adopted the macedonian alphabet & language.The slavic people went through macedonia & did not wipe out the macedonian people as some think falsely.they intermingled with the macedonian people.The slavic people did not cause the damage that people are saying.The slavic hordes went through bulgaria & greece,serbia,albania & turkey they did no more damage than in macedonia.Many races of people over the years went through macedonia it's a fact that they did no more damage to the identity of the macedonian people.The bulgarian government would have you beleive the propaganda of lies that's coming out of their mouths.Why so they can make a claim on macedonia & say it belongs to bulgaria & the macedonian people are bulgarian.You know what 4 countries thought that macedonia belongs to them & divided macedonia up one of them was bulgaria.Did you know when macedonia was divided a part to serbia do you know what the propaganda was a heavy duty brainwashing of the populace involving heavy duty bs about how they should not consider themselves as macedonians but as serbians & take glory in their slavic identity.This was total lies why because macedonia is no more slavic than the countries that divided her up.In other words it's all lies to lay claim on macedonian lands.It's all smear tactics to keep people from realising that they have a connection both in the name ,identity,customs etc with the ancient macedonians.Slav this slav that some if not most smear tactics has stuck even learnered people for a while kept saying that macedonians are slavs which is totally untrue.THey were influenced like any other balkan people like in the balkans.So false labelling has taken over & use of undesrved prefixes or suffixes.A good many people know what really is going on where there is a clearer picture.The slavs did not wipe out the macedonians in the sixth century they were simply assimilated,they were illiterate & they adopted the macedonian language.It's a proven fact they went to other countries as well & they should also be labelled slavic including greece & turkey.You mention a lot of other things & i'll lump it for you it's pure & utter propaganda & smear tactics aimed at telling the population of macedonia that they have no link with the ancients & they should take glory from them that they are not macedonians.This is pure & utter rubbish which is easily disproven.If you doubt me still then just go to the various countries that divided macedonia after 1913 & see the propaganda they spout you will see the differences that's macedonians don't have a right to their name,they don't exist,they are slav a lot of discrediting going on does that sound familiar.Even to the point of rewriting history books from their perspective.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Why does no one recognize your ethnicity then ?

That is a piece of cheap propaganda, and quite frankly, a blatant lie. It will not be tolerated here.

It says - South Slavic people....

The term 'Slavic' is a linguistic group, and, linguistically, most of the Balkans is populated by 'South Slavic people'. Is that news to you? Slavic literacy was spread from Macedonia; in its absence, the Bulgar state of khans would have continued to use Greek as the official language. Would that have been better for you?

even your own first president said you were Slavs not Ancient Macedonians....

So what? It is the opinion of one man among a few million Macedonians across the world. I can cite several stupid one-liners coming out of Bulgaria also, but it's an old game that I have no interest in entertaining.

........and even Bulgaria's capital was in Ohrid...

Not exactly. Ohrid became the capital of Samuel's empire, which arose in part from the ruins of the first Bulgar empire. It is therefore natural that some remnant elements from the old were adopted by the new. The name of 'Bulgaria' had little more significance to Macedonians in the Medieval period than the term 'Roman' had for them and others in the region centuries earlier.

......there are no records of there being a Macedonian ethnicity...

That's another blatantly stupid lie, keep it up. There are several records citing the Macedonians, ethnically, linguistically and otherwise from the 19th century onwards, the era of nationalism in which focus on ethnicities became immense. If you are looking for records prior to the 19th century that refer to the Macedonians with an 'ethnic' prefix, then I would challenge you to find the same of any other people in the Balkans.

who would be mad enough to move his capital to a place where foreign ethnicities live ?

You're confusing the facts. Samuel established his capital in Prespa and/or then Ohrid, so they were always in Macedonia and never "moved" to there. Here's a question for you that you will most certainly evade or respond with more babble: After Samuel absorbed the territory of the old Bulgar kingdom in Moesia, why didn't he move his capital to the old capital of the Bulgars? There was no genuine affinity, that's why.

And how come there was no Macedonian uprisings, if not of people who say they are Bulgarians ?

There are plenty, have a good read through the history section of this forum the next time you visit, as a visitor.

Macedonians are only the Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks and 30% Albanians who live in Macedonia but are brainwashed by politicians....

Another blatant lie and a direct attack on the identity of the Macedonian people. You are an idiot. Consider yourself banned from this point onwards you vindictive liar.

or the best part - people who started a different dialect from slavs somewhat in the 6-7th century.

People who gave illiterate Turkic horsemen and their servants in Moesia and Thrace the ability to write their own names in a Slavic language and an essentially Macedonian alphabet. Not bad for a people that were plucked out of thin air according to your fantastic theories.

And why so happy about the false scientific research done by nationalistic parties and professors who specialise in history of Bulgarian communism....

The census' carried out in Pirin have nothing to do with professors you bafoon, deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of Macedonians and people of Macedonian origin live in Bulgaria and have identified as Macedonians when you country wasn't in a permanent state of ultra-nationalistic morony.

I would be more worried about the unoficial Macedonian census which says that "260 000 roma live in Macedonia"

Haha, that's comical, a Bulgar talking about the Roma in Macedonia when his own country is full of them.

They even posted a research saying that CIA wrote that there are 1 million Albanians in Macedonia.

Garbage, but I suppose this is the type of research that your pathetic arguments rely on.

You may be an ethnic group but you were never the slavic teachers, we stole nothing from you...........

Yes, we were. Solun is in geographic Macedonia and the people that created the conditions for a common Slavonic literacy in the 9th century are the ancestors of my people, and not yours or those in Pliska or Trnovo. Your people have stolen plenty from the Macedonians, don't be naive in addition to being an idiot.

Buglaria was always the Slavic teacher of all, we even gave home to the creators of the alphabet all Slavs use and asked them to research on other alphabets and scholar things as well....

The rulers of the Bulgar state had assimilated into the local populace in Thrace and Moesia to a significant degree, but there was still a large segment of the aristocracy that resisted Boris' policy of negating the 'old ways' in favour of the new developments that originated from Macedonia. The students of the Macedonian brothers and saints Cyril and Methodius brought learning to Thrace and Moesia, as they were persecuted in Moravia and found shelter in Boris' expanding empire, an empire that was by that time 'Bulgar' in little more than its name. Brush up on your facts.

And on top - Did Bulgaria destroy Macedonia during the Second Balkan war ? Did it do things like Greece or Serbia ? Why not hate Serbia for even making you join Yugoslavia and for its even harder attrocities in macedonia ?

The whole lot have behaved like a pack of vultures towards Macedonia at one point or another, individually and in unison. It isn't a matter of comparing who is better, but who is worse.

We even gave you home and were the first ones to admit your countries, for what ? Feed a dog to bark you after that.

Macedonians sought refuge in several countries during Ottoman times, proximity alone was the determining factor as to why the new Bulgarian kingdom with its Germanic king were a popular destination. We used Bulgaria in much the same way that Bulgarians used Romania, a place for organising, planning, launching operations, etc.