Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Solun]

Prosecuting someone for storming parliament and physical assault is probably the most normal thing Macedonia has ever done. That would happen in any country.

This whole line about them being persecuted for resisting a name change is another self-inflicted fyromian rumour to excuse themselves for doing nothing. Lets not get deceived by the bullshit.

I'm surprised you think they would still not be on the street protesting every day if they were not in jail

[Karposh]

They tried that in Canberra 15 years ago. It started off ok and then turned into a disaster. It was very annoying. Not having anywhere to put your rubbish forces you to drop it on the ground. We have our bins back now. Japan will catch up.

Does that mean you're a Canberra local Vangelovski? I could've caught up with you at the recent rally if I knew that. Sho ne kazha nashio?...It's always nice to put a face to a name.

[Vangelovski]

I'm surprised you think they would still not be on the street protesting every day if they were not in jail

Protesting what exactly? They were supposedly protesting SDSM electing Talat Xhaferi as the speaker of Parliament. Where were they when Gruevski made Xhaferi Defence Minister? The whole incident had nothing to do with the name negotiations.

[Vangelovski]

Does that mean you're a Canberra local Vangelovski? I could've caught up with you at the recent rally if I knew that. Sho ne kazha nashio?...It's always nice to put a face to a name.

Queanbeyan. No self-respecting Australian (or Macedonian) actually lives in Canberra

But I didn't go to the protest. I made a decision not to.

[Solun]

Protesting what exactly? They were supposedly protesting SDSM electing Talat Xhaferi as the speaker of Parliament. Where were they when Gruevski made Xhaferi Defence Minister? The whole incident had nothing to do with the name negotiations.

That's right they were initially protesting the manner in which Xhaferi was elected speaker of parliament. It was obvious that was Zaev's first step in his express process of federalisation. Those protests would be continuing today and would be much larger if not for all the jailing, considering now it is not just federalisation but also national identity that is in question. Those Actors, Film Directors and Opera Singers may not be a physical threat, but they did give stirring speeches for the cause.

[Niko777]

REUTERS: Macedonia has put forward four options to settle the decades-long dispute with Greece over its name, the country’s prime minister said on Tuesday.

“The suggestions are: Republic of North Macedonia, Republic of Upper Macedonia, Republic of Vardar Macedonia, and Republic of Macedonia (Skopje),” the country’s prime minister, Zoran Zaev, told Reuters

Link:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1GB1WA

[Gocka]

A civil war with who though? In order for there to be a civil war you need at least 2 opposing sides willing to fight for something. Fyromaninas aren't willing to fight for anything. They wouldn't even fight back against Albanian aggression, let alone fight each other over politics.

Perhaps a civil war? Maybe that'll wake them up from a nationalist front?

I've got you covered on that one too, refer to #1 on the disease list

The modern Macedonian in a nutshell. I'd maybe just add that they're too dumb to even realise any of this.

You would like to think so but, the surroundings we find ourselves in, are simply not comparable. First education in the places we are in is light years ahead. We live in societies where we take responsibility for ourselves, we care about our neighborhoods, our laws, and our futures. We actually see fist hand what a functioning country looks like.

Add to that the massive brain drain in FYROM and we might as well be Japanese people to them, such is the difference in how we think and live.

All the hardworking people left in the 70's and 80's, all the educated people left in the 90's and 2000's. What you are left with is, well you see what you are left with.

In all honesty, they can't all be dumb. These people are our blood. If they're dumb, so are we. So why do they do such a great job of looking dumb?

Or could it be that the progeny of those that migrated have more of a genetically ingrained spirit to achieve something. Meanwhile, those that remained behind kept the slave mentality.

Or maybe they're just dumb.

[Gocka]

(Skopje) Technically still "Macedonia"

REUTERS: Macedonia has put forward four options to settle the decades-long dispute with Greece over its name, the country’s prime minister said on Tuesday.

“The suggestions are: Republic of North Macedonia, Republic of Upper Macedonia, Republic of Vardar Macedonia, and Republic of Macedonia (Skopje),” the country’s prime minister, Zoran Zaev, told Reuters

Link:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1GB1WA

[Risto the Great]

(Skopje) Technically still "Macedonia"

It's like winning a secret game because of being so extremely clever. But not.

I'm none of those names by the way. A greater divide between real Macedonians and those Fyromians.

[Vangelovski]

That's right they were initially protesting the manner in which Xhaferi was elected speaker of parliament. It was obvious that was Zaev's first step in his express process of federalisation. Those protests would be continuing today and would be much larger if not for all the jailing, considering now it is not just federalisation but also national identity that is in question. Those Actors, Film Directors and Opera Singers may not be a physical threat, but they did give stirring speeches for the cause.

You're drawing a non-existent bow.

If they were so concerned about federalisation, why weren't they protesting since 2001 and the Framework Agreement?

If they were so concerned about democratic processes, why weren't they protesting since decades before?

The fact is that they're DPMNE stooges and now they're only crap talking to try and make themselves out to be some sort of heroes. And fyromians are lapping it up, using it as yet another excuse to do nothing - "we can't do anything cause some opera singer went to jail for something completely unrelated but we're all pretending they're patriots now".

[Amphipolis]

Actually, according to Greek media, there was a demonstartion today in Skopje, under heavy snow. Here's photos and videos.

http://www.iefimerida.gr/news/399284/skopia-akraioi-ethnikistes-ekapsan-tin-elliniki-simaia-diadilosan-gia-na-min-allaxei

By the way, the weather is very bad in the last days. Thessaloniki is forecasted to face the worst icestorm of the year in 24 hours from now.

[Stojacanec]

Good to see Macedonians showing some unity with the protests. Something that is severely lacking in Macedonians these days.

Pity about the weather though. From what I could tell it didn't rain on the greeks parade.

[Amphipolis]

A civil war with who though? In order for there to be a civil war you need at least 2 opposing sides willing to fight for something. Fyromaninas aren't willing to fight for anything. They wouldn't even fight back against Albanian aggression, let alone fight each other over politics.

I've got you covered on that one too, refer to #1 on the disease list

You would like to think so but, the surroundings we find ourselves in, are simply not comparable. First education in the places we are in is light years ahead. We live in societies where we take responsibility for ourselves, we care about our neighborhoods, our laws, and our futures. We actually see fist hand what a functioning country looks like.

Add to that the massive brain drain in FYROM and we might as well be Japanese people to them, such is the difference in how we think and live.

All the hardworking people left in the 70's and 80's, all the educated people left in the 90's and 2000's. What you are left with is, well you see what you are left with.

This isn’t the first time I remind you that you’re no different than your compatriots.

You may be elsewhere, but you have the same citizenship and voting rights. Your intervening powers are exactly the same.

A 20-something student in Skopje or a 50-something accountant in Ohrid cannot do more or less than you. He can vote for the right party or even be more active politically, he can go to demonstrations or not (just like you), he can write something on the internet (just like you), he can even become a politician himself (so can you).


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[Amphipolis]

REUTERS: Macedonia has put forward four options to settle the decades-long dispute with Greece over its name, the country’s prime minister said on Tuesday.

“The suggestions are: Republic of North Macedonia, Republic of Upper Macedonia, Republic of Vardar Macedonia, and Republic of Macedonia (Skopje),” the country’s prime minister, Zoran Zaev, told Reuters

Link:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1GB1WA

A few hours ago, Zaev denied he made these comments.

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.dw.com/en/macedonia-mulls-four-name-changes-to-resolve-dispute-with-greece/a-42761120

Macedonia mulls four name changes to resolve dispute with Greece

Greece has opposed the former Yugoslav republic's use of the name Macedonia as it could imply territorial claims over the Greek region of the same name. A change could be on the cards in time for EU and NATO meetings

Prime Minister Zoran Zaev said on Tuesday that if dignity was preserved in a name change, Macedonian citizens would support it in a referendum.

Speaking after a Western Balkans summit held in London, Zaev said: "The suggestions are Republic of North Macedonia, Republic of Upper Macedonia, Republic of Vardar Macedonia and Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)."

The geographical qualifiers appear designed to ensure there is clear distinction between the Greek region of Macedonia and its landlocked Balkan neighbor.

The Macedonian premier was asked if he thought Greece would be happy with one of the options and he replied: "Yes... They have more preferred options and some not so preferred options (in terms of the name)."

However, on Tuesday, despite snow and freezing temperatures, thousands of people in the Macedonian capital Skopje took to the streets to protest a possible change of their country's name. A network of civic associations organized the rally as people chanted "Long live Macedonia!"

Constitutional change

Zaev questioned whether there was a need to change Macedonia's constitution, as Greece had asked for in recent months. The question remains whether there was "a real need," he said. Greece has suggested some articles could imply territorial claims over its northern region of Macedonia.

EU and NATO applications

Skopje has long wanted to join NATO and the European Union. On Sunday, EU Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker met with Zaev and President Gjorge Ivanov. He praised the two leaders for the pace of reform in Macedonia and urged speedy resolution of the name dispute with Greece. Juncker said once the 25-year-long dispute was resolved, Macedonia would be invited to EU accession talks "within months."

As a member of both the EU and NATO, Greece has the right of veto over new admissions.

Macedonia has hopes to resolve the issue before an EU meeting in June and a Nato summit in July.

To satisfy Greece, the United Nations among other international organizations officially recognize Macedonia as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

Macedonia is changing the name of its main airport, Skopje Alexander the Great Airport, to Skopje International Airport. The goodwill gesture towards Greece is part of the negotiations which have been stepped up this year to end the dispute with Greece.

During his visit, Juncker said he was "enchanted (to find) that something has changed at the airport."