Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[vicsinad]

Potential disinformation, but:

SDS claims 6 DPNE MPs are considering casting votes in favor of the name agreement in parliament.

https://www.slobodnaevropa.mk/a/29529190.html

Денеска потпретседателот и пратеник на СДСМ Мухамед Зеќири изјави дека дека се во постојана комуникација со пратениците од ВМРО-ДПМНЕ со цел да се обезбеди двотретинско мнозинство за уставни измени , а кога ќе има конкретна информација ќе биде соопштена во јавност.

На прашањето дали ќе се разговара и со поранешниот претседател на ВМРО ДПМНЕ Никола Груевски, одговори дека Груевски „ќе си заврши таму каде што треба да заврши согласно вчерашната одлука од Апелација и оти "неговиот глас не е потребен“.

Инаку телевизијата Телма денеска повикувајки се на свои извори објави дека шестмина пратеници од ВМРО ДПМНЕ преговараат за можноста да го дадат својот глас за уставни измени.

Владата постави рок од десет дена за да се знае дали ќе се обезбеди двотретинско мнозинство за уставните измени или, пак, ќе се оди на предвремени брзи избори следниот месец.

[Carlin]

Potential disinformation, but:

SDS claims 6 DPNE MPs are considering casting votes in favor of the name agreement in parliament.

https://www.slobodnaevropa.mk/a/29529190.html

Денеска потпретседателот и пратеник на СДСМ Мухамед Зеќири изјави дека дека се во постојана комуникација со пратениците од ВМРО-ДПМНЕ со цел да се обезбеди двотретинско мнозинство за уставни измени , а кога ќе има конкретна информација ќе биде соопштена во јавност.

На прашањето дали ќе се разговара и со поранешниот претседател на ВМРО ДПМНЕ Никола Груевски, одговори дека Груевски „ќе си заврши таму каде што треба да заврши согласно вчерашната одлука од Апелација и оти "неговиот глас не е потребен“.

Инаку телевизијата Телма денеска повикувајки се на свои извори објави дека шестмина пратеници од ВМРО ДПМНЕ преговараат за можноста да го дадат својот глас за уставни измени.

Владата постави рок од десет дена за да се знае дали ќе се обезбеди двотретинско мнозинство за уставните измени или, пак, ќе се оди на предвремени брзи избори следниот месец.

I've seen this on telma tv as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iRijyKI3uA&feature=youtu.be

[Rogi]

I read most of the news in Macedonia, particularly over the last 48-72 hours, as accelerated election-tine attempts by each party to discredit one another or blur the lines between them and get the people back into the "disilussioned with politics" camp. Looking at the sources of the stories and the lack of them being corroborated, I take most of them with a grain of salt.

From stories about Edinstvena Makedonija which are then rebutted, to stories about a wide electoral coalition particularly among the Albanians, which are then rebutted by Sela, to stories about MP discussions and whatever they may come up with next.

Most people in Macedonia are also taking a fairly cynical view of the media, which has really lost its' credibility, however little it may have had, in the eyes of the general populace - another fallout of the referendum and the blatant spin and probably one of the least mentioned things in Macedonia is the substantially decreased role the media has in the ability to sway or influence the masses.

[VMRO]

I've only been following it in recent months, for obvious reasons.

Zaev got too arrogant, or was too naive/optimistic, and rushed the whole process making a couple of mistakes along the way:
- The bloated/incorrect voter list needed to be reviewed and revised prior to the referendum (probably it was going to take too long so he pressed on regardless)
- He always knew that the turnout would be less than 50%, yet he still pressed on with the process/referendum*
- The "parade" of western leaders to Macedonia providing support and backing gave many people the illusion that the referendum outcome and constitutional changes were all somehow a foregone conclusion

As far as DPMNE goes, one could say they've gone off the deep end a long time ago. I've not seen any corroboration in Macedonian media that would support any of their claims of massive voter fraud and stuffing of ballot boxes. I also disagree with their claims that all those who didn't vote "boycotted" the referendum. The ordinary people in Macedonia, regardless of their ethnic background, have been disillusioned for a long time and many probably didn't vote for the simple reason of being completely cynical or sour about politics/voting in general (this may explain why many people were not very well informed about the name agreement in the first place, as we saw from a couple of earlier articles in this thread - perhaps they coulnd't care less).

Maybe I am completely out to lunch on this one - including all points above - but that's my impression.

PS:

* Zaev knew the turnout would be way less than 50% and so did N. Kotzias, as Zaev relayed this info himself to Kotzias. See this article:

https://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/makedonija/%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0/

Greece's Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias, said after the referendum on September 30 in an interview with the Greek ERT that they had over-optimistic forecasts regarding the turnout.

- We had information from the Government in Skopje that between 40 and 45 per cent would turn out in the referendum. We, however, thought the turnout would be 41 percent. It turned out that the response was lower than that, Kotzias said.

The voting list had been looked into prior to the 2016 elections, it was one of the Przino points.

SDS at that time we're claiming DPNE were had an electoral roll that had dead people etc on it. In the end SDS we're happy with the reconciliation (Maybe they too used this to falsify votes and win in both the parliamentary elections and local).

This time i think it backfired on them, i honestly think they did falsify voting as they found voting slips missing and exceeded votes in certain polling booths where the population is less than what voted.

DIK confirmed irregularities but will not look into further, their reason being it will not change the result.

[VMRO]

I've seen this on telma tv as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iRi...ature=youtu.be

I wouldn't believe the media, especially TELMA.

Even if 6 do cross over and vote, their political careers will most likely end and it is still not enough to get the required 80.

[Carlin]

According to Vladimir Pavlovski from SDSM (Kumanovo) 80+ MPs have been secured. A1on.mk sources state that this is not a done deal though, and negotiations are still in progress.



URL:

https://a1on.mk/archives/959071

[VMRO]

According to Vladimir Pavlovski from SDSM (Kumanovo) 80+ MPs have been secured. A1on.mk sources state that this is not a done deal though, and negotiations are still in progress.



URL:
https://a1on.mk/archives/959071

I don't believe anything till i see it, politicians in Macedonia are known to fly off with the fairies.

There are reports that some DPNE mp's who are for voting want to be secret voting to be done.... sounds like a recipe for fraudulent votes.

Are they going to vote again with their hands as they did with Talat's president of the parliament vote, shambles.

[vicsinad]

Rumors are flying. That number is now supposedly at 82.

https://(ВИДЕО) 360˚ Неофицијално: О...ни

[vicsinad]

These are apparently the 10 MPs that SDS is trying to win over:

Blagoja Despotovski,
Zekir Ramcilovic,
Krsto Jovanovski,
Daniela Rangelova,
Dragan Cuklev,
Beti Kanceska Milevska,
Boris Zmejkovski,
Vladanka Avirovic,
Stojan Milanov,
Panco Minov

[Risto the Great]

If they pardon Grujo, all will vote it in.

[Karposh]

I just came across this video about the Macedonian referendum that was screened on AlJazeera recently. I think it's worth a look, if for no other reason than to see the fool representing the pro-name change camp, Boyan, desperately trying to polish the turd that is the failed referendum into a shining nugget of gold. Even the AlJazeera journo has to step in at one point and pull him up on his stupidity, saying "Sounds like you're changing the rules as you go along".

Contrast this Boyan baboon to Vera, representing the Go-Fuck-Yourselves camp. I'm pretty sure most will agree, she came across with class and dignity which, on those subtle traits alone, strengthened her overall point of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k2OoKS3eKc

[Risto the Great]

With the benefit of impartiality in a situation such as this, the Al Jazeera interviewers can see the fundamental violation of human rights going on here. And they don't even need to prove anything from 2000 years ago. Meanwhile Boyan is utterly contemptible and representative of the shit that Macedonia is today. He would sell his arse for relevance.

[Phoenix]

I just came across this video about the Macedonian referendum that was screened on AlJazeera recently. I think it's worth a look, if for no other reason than to see the fool representing the pro-name change camp, Boyan, desperately trying to polish the turd that is the failed referendum into a shining nugget of gold. Even the AlJazeera journo has to step in at one point and pull him up on his stupidity, saying "Sounds like you're changing the rules as you go along".

Contrast this Boyan baboon to Vera, representing the Go-Fuck-Yourselves camp. I'm pretty sure most will agree, she came across with class and dignity which, on those subtle traits alone, strengthened her overall point of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k2OoKS3eKc

Boyan has a good head for punching...

[Risto the Great]

Washington corrupts Macedonian Parliamentarians

http://www.voltairenet.org/article203403.html

Washington corrupts Macedonian Parliamentarians to secure Macedonia’s Membership of Nato and the EU

The Macedonians refused NATO and EU membership that the Zaev government proposed to them through the referendum held on 30 September 2018. [1] However, that same evening, the Secretary-Generals of NATO and the EU called to by-pass popular anger and to continue the process for approving membership, this time by a parliamentary vote [2].

According to Milenko Nedelkovski, Washington immediately began buying MP votes. So reveals the Mina Report [3].

An official in the US State Department, “Agent Tesla” (alias Mitko Burceski) has opened an office in a luxury apartment belonging to Sasho Mijalkov, a cousin of the former Macedonian Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski. The MPs went one by one to receive 2.5 million dollars a piece.

Two US ambassadors are piloting the operation: the US ambassador at Skopje, Jess L. Baily (who supervised Turkey entering the war against Libya and Syria), and the US ambassador at Athens, Geoffrey R. Pyatt (who organized the 2014 coup d’etat in Ukraine).

They have succeeded in inserting into the parliamentary agenda the country’s name change, a sina qua non for NATO and EU membership. The vote has been fixed for 16 October 2018, which is the same day as the court’s ruling on the dozen or so nationalist MPs who have been prosecuted for spying on the social-democratic party [4]. The ambassadors’ plan involves lifting the immunity of these parliamentarians to disable them from voting. Taking into account the number of votes bought, the Parliamentary majority will then shift mechanically in favour of the Prime Minister’s proposal.

US$2.5 million?
I reckon US$100 and a free lap dance would get some over the line. Who knows? Anything is possible in Severdonia.

[Bill77]

http://www.voltairenet.org/article203403.html

Washington corrupts Macedonian Parliamentarians to secure Macedonia’s Membership of Nato and the EU



US$2.5 million?
I reckon US$100 and a free lap dance would get some over the line. Who knows? Anything is possible in Severdonia.

Fucken Judas's