Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Soldier of Macedon]

Recognition of a distinct people residing in Macedonia prior to 1913?, who apparently chose to either be Greeks or Bulgarians (and Macedonians)?, as a result of the occupation of the area by three Balkan nations?... Where did this Athenian get his education from?

And what if those three Balkan nations never interfered in Macedonia? Fake Greeks and Bulgars in Macedonia would be non-existent or insignificant minorities. Sometimes these idiots are so neck deep in their own lies that they don't realise when the truth slips out. As for the term Macedonians appearing only after 1913, these morons are either ignorant because their own schools lie to them or they know that Macedonians identified as such well before that (which is an undeniable fact) but deliberately lie to others.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://pretsedatel.mk/mk/2011-06-17-09-55-07/2011-09-03-11-36-59/5245.html

Прием на делегација од Сојузот на здруженија на Македонците од Егејскиот дел на Македонија - „Македон"

Четврток, 28 Јуни 2018

Претседателот на Република Македонија, д-р Ѓорге Иванов, денеска прими делегација од Сојузот на здруженијата на Македонците од Егејскиот дел на Македонија - „Македон" и членови на секретаријатот на Петтата светска средба на децата бегалци. Изразувајќи благодарност за приемот, тие го информираа претседателот Иванов со тековните активности во однос на финалната подготовка и организација за Петтата светска средба на децата бегалци, што ќе се одржи на 30 јуни и 1 јули во Скопје и Катланово. На средбата, делегацијата изрази поддршка за ставот на македонскиот претседател во однос за Законот за ратификација на Спогодбата со Република Грција.

Admission of a delegation from the Association of Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia - "Macedon"

Thursday, June 28, 2018

Today, the President of the Republic of Macedonia, Dr. Gjorge Ivanov, received a delegation from the Macedonian Association of Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia - "Macedon" and members of the secretariat of the Fifth World Meeting of Refugee Children, expressing appreciation for the reception, they informed the President Ivanov with the ongoing activities regarding the final preparation and organization for the Fifth World Meeting of Refugee Children, to be held on June 30 and July 1 in Skopje and Katlanovo. At the meeting, the delegation expressed support for the position of Macedonian President in relation to the Law on Ratification of the Agreement with the Republic of Greece.

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.mia.mk/Mobile/en/Home/RenderSingleNews/289?newsID=134339285

The whole world recognises our country after the name deal, says PM Zaev

Skopje, 2 July 2018 (MIA) - The name agreement has fulfilled the centuries-long aspiration of our predecessors to have our own country. Finally, we are a country recognized by the whole world. Our Macedonian language and Macedonian identity have been recognized and there is no more dilemma, stressed Prime Minister Zoran Zaev on Monday.

"Until now, we were FYROM, Former Yugoslav Republic. Humiliated wherever we went. An internal debate of whether our Macedonia will survive was always active. Today, there is no dilemma - the centuries-long aspiration to have our own country has been fulfilled," Zaev said responding to a question of an opposition MP during today's Q&A session.

Macedonian identity and Macedonian language, he added, are finally recognized. "This is a settled issue in Macedonia, but the final decision will be made by the citizens."

"After 27 years, Macedonia will have the chance to decide what kind of future it wants and what kind of future it wants for its children. Macedonia will survive, the country will be here even if the citizens support the name referendum," PM Zaev said accusing the opposition of spreading 'antagonism' asking VMRO-DPMNE: 'Why have you failed for 11 years to bring Macedonia into the EU and NATO?'

"Make up your mind, where do you want to go and only then you will help the citizens. I am pro-EU and NATO and I have wholeheartedly supported the deal with Greece and I'm prepared to assume full political responsibility."

Zaev's speech sparked fiery debate between the ruling majority and the opposition party in Parliament. ba/16:47

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.mia.mk/Mobile/en/Home/RenderSingleNews/289?newsID=134339013

Kambovski: Ivanov as president is obliged to sign laws, not to express personal views

Ohrid, 2 July 2018 (MIA) - The constitutional duty of the president of the state is to sign laws and treaties, which are adopted and ratified by the parliament and not to express personal views and interpretations, the academician Vlado Kambovski told reporters Monday in Ohrid where he participates in the Summer School of Natural Law organised by the Centre for Strategic Research within Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Culture.

Kambovski considers that country’s integration processes should not be hindered, which have been opened with the good neighbourly relations treaty with Bulgaria and agreement on name dispute settlement with Greece, which should be confirmed in a referendum and afterwards in the parliament and signed by the president.

Once the president accepts and swears in to obey the Constitution then it is normal that he should behave in accordance to such a commitment. If he, according to the Constitution, is obliged, then it is not a matter of free will whether he will sign or not the law, whether he will have such an attitude or position, his constitutional duty and therefore legal duty is to sign the law, Kambovski underlined.

He believes that the referendum could succeed and he is optimistic that there is a will for such an outcome among the political parties.

He also announces that the Centre for Strategic Research within Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Culture will organise in September a scientific conference at which solutions stemming from name deal will be clarified. sk/13:46

[Risto the Great]

Don't you just love it when Macedonians get all intelligent'n'all? Using big words and sounding progressive. I think they should all get shiny new suits, then lined up and then have their last words to a firing squad. Pathetic maggots.

[Risto the Great]

Saw this in Barcelona this morning. Wondering if that's how much is needed to pay off Macedonian politicians.

[Risto the Great]

By the way, North Macedonian appears to be strawberries mostly.

[Niko777]

EU’s ‘Containment’ Approach to Balkans May Doom Reformers

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/eu-s-containment-approach-to-balkans-may-doom-reformers-07-02-2018

Last week, the European Union dealt a hard blow to Albania, Macedonia and the idea of enlarging the Union into Southeastern Europe.

At their Brussels summit of June 28-29, EU leaders decided without debate not to offer Albania and Macedonia a start date for membership talks, after France, the Netherlands and Denmark blocked any such offer.

The move left Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev emptyhanded as he begins campaigning for a deal he struck with his Greek counterpart, Alexis Tsipras, settling a dispute over his country’s name that dates back to the early 1990s.

While Zaev and his foreign minister, Nikola Dimitrov, put on a brave face last week, the EU may well have doomed their government, and the prospect of resolving the name dispute and moving closer to the EU.

The deal could pave the way for Macedonia to progress towards membership in the EU and, much sooner, membership of NATO – but it needs the backing of Macedonia’s electorate.

The country’s main opposition party, meanwhile, is mobilizing against a “Yes” vote. There is a very real danger that the EU’s shortsighted decision could prompt a swing towards a “No” result, or mass abstention that would invalidate the referendum.

The opposition in Greece, led by New Democracy, is also mobilizing to scupper the deal. The main opposition parties in both countries are affiliated with the centre-right European People’s Party – but the EPP shows little appetite to rein in its members.

It was especially significant that it is no longer Greece that is blocking Macedonia’s path but France, suggesting the possibility that every time one obstacle is removed, another one may be put in the way.

With his veto, French President Emmanuel Macron – ostensibly concerned by the pace of reform in Albania, which left Macedonia as collateral damage – has demonstrated that he does not care about Europe but about his domestic standing. By playing politics with two candidate countries, he has given up leadership on Europe.

In Albania, Prime Minister Edi Rama is in the midst of a judicial reform process that is seen as a model for the other countries of the region. He, too, was left hanging by EU leaders, who gave a vague promise of opening talks by the end of next year – but only if no other country decides to block.

However, since opening membership talks, as well as the opening of each policy chapter, requires the unanimous backing of all EU member states, every one can use its veto.

The question now is: why would any political leader in a candidate country want to reform if the EU refuses to reward reform?

This will have a chilling effect on the advocates of reform across the region. And without strong domestic reform coalitions in accession countries, the EU will lose its transformative potential – which already exists in theory more than in practice.

In fact, last week could mark a gradual shift away from an enlargement approach to Southeast Europe towards a containment approach: bring in the countries that are doing reasonably well – Serbia, Montenegro, and Macedonia and perhaps Albania – and make sure the other ones – Kosovo and Bosnia and Herzegovina – remain quarantined outside the EU.

Bosnia’s constitutional set-up prevents it from joining the EU, and perhaps even from leading meaningful membership negotiations.

Kosovo could see its membership prospect scuppered by countries such as Cyprus or Spain even if Serbia ends up recognizing its independence. The prospect of one day joining the EU looks increasingly dim for these two countries, both of which happen to have a Muslim majority. The longer-term impact of this is difficult to gauge at present.

A final casualty of the shift from enlargement to containment is the credibility of the European Commission, which unveiled a new Balkan strategy in February.

The strategy had two main deliverables in the first half of this year: the Commission’s own country reports, and the Council’s agreement to follow the Commission’s proposal and open talks with Albania and Macedonia.

The country reports did not reflect the strategy’s priorities and approaches, and the member states refused to follow the lead and open negotiations with the two candidate countries.

It would appear that EU member states and candidate countries can safely ignore the strategy. More troublingly, it would also appear that the EU is slamming the door in the face of those who would like to join it. The implications of this might be with us for years to come.

Toby Vogel is a co-founder and senior associate of the Democratization Policy Council, based in Brussels.

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-govt-kicks-off-name-referendum-campaign-07-02-2018

Macedonia Govt Starts 'Name' Referendum Campaign

Ahead of a referendum due in autumn, Macedonia's government has launched a social media campaign in support of the historic agreement with Greece over its name.

Macedonia's government has launched what it calls an "informal" campaign promoting the recent agreement with Greece on its name, aimed at putting a positive gloss on the deal, which now goes to a referendum slated for September or October.

“The campaign is being prepared by the government service for public relations and for now it will run on social networks. It will emphasize the moments that are important to understand, the essence of the agreement with Greece, which now must pass a referendum,” the government press service told BIRN.

“Macedonian language – protected and strengthened, once and for all, at home and abroad. Macedonian identity, Erga Omnes [for all uses],” was the message posted on Prime Minister Zoran Zaev’s official Facebook page over the weekend.

It was accompanied by a photo of Zaev inside the tall “Makedonium” monument in the town of Krusevo, dedicated to the Ottoman-era Ilinden [St Elijah's Day] uprising in 1903, a seminal moment in the struggle for Macedonian independence.

Another post on the government website, accompaned by a picture of Zaev and his Greek counterpart, Alexis Tsipras, from the deal signing ceremony that happened last month, reads: “With the agreement, we have the right to say that we are Macedonians, without any limitations.”

The minister for communications and transparency, Robert Popovski, said the government had opted against a traditional campaign, pouring money into the mainstream commercial media, which could endanger their independence.

“There will be no classic propaganda material in terms of preparation of adverts,” Popovski said, adding that the government would probably go for a direct approach, explaining the agreement through direct meetings with the people and by using only the national TV and the radio broadcaster, MRTV.

Under the agreement signed by the two foreign ministers in June 17, Macedonia is to change its name to the Republic of North Macedonia in exchange for the prospect of a swift accession to NATO and a start to EU accession talks.

The term Macedonian/Citizen of North Macedonia, will be used to officially describe the nationality of the majority population in the country, while the language will continue to be called Macedonian, with a note that it has a Slavic origin

For it to be fully implemented, the deal has to be supported by a majority of voters in Macedonia in a referendum slated for early September or late October.

Another photo of Zaev’s recent meeting with the NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, carries the message: “Yes, for our union with the NATO member states!”

On his Facebook page, Zaev has also made an appeal to Macedonian citizens.

“I am Macedonian and I call on all of you, Macedonians, Albanians, Turks, Serbs, Vlachs, Roma, Bosniaks and all the rest, all of you – say Yes to our future.”

Macedonia's parliamentarians last week approved the long-negotiated agreement with 69 out of 120 deputies voting in favour.

However, the President, Gjorge Ivanov, and the opposition right-wing VMRO DPMNE party, have condemned it as a treasonous sell-out.

After signing the deal and after Greek lifted its veto, the EU gave Macedonia a conditional invitation to start long-awaited EU accession talks, subject to the fulfilment of various reforms.

At NATO's forthcoming summit this month, the alliance is expected to issue an immediate invitation, which has been frozen since 2008 due to the unresolved dispute with Greece.

[FoxTale]

Another post on the government website, accompaned by a picture of Zaev and his Greek counterpart, Alexis Tsipras, from the deal signing ceremony that happened last month, reads: “With the agreement, we have the right to say that we are Macedonians, without any limitations.”

Hahahaha, yeah, I doubt that's gonna happen

[Spirit]

This is from an interview Zaev had with Euractiv

Euractiv “But the opposition is likely to make it difficult for you, the VMRO-DPMNE party doesn’t like the agreement…”

Zaev “There is no clear agreement among the opposition. They are against changing the constitution, but they say they are for NATO and EU accession. There is therefore a contradiction. If we are for NATO and the EU, we should be ready to compromise. In the beginning, I also wished that there would be no need to change the constitution. But with the power of arguments during the talks, it became clear that such a position would create new problems.

We want to finish with problems once and forever. So that we could build friendly relations and conclude agreements for the benefit of our two countries, and of our two peoples, and this is why the compromise was made. But the opposition is likely to make it difficult for you, the VMRO-DPMNE party doesn’t like the agreement…

There is no clear agreement among the opposition. They are against changing the constitution, but they say they are for NATO and EU accession. There is therefore a contradiction. If we are for NATO and the EU, we should be ready to compromise. In the beginning, I also wished that there would be no need to change the constitution. But with the power of arguments during the talks, it became clear that such a position would create new problems.

We want to finish with problems once and forever. So that we could build friendly relations and conclude agreements for the benefit of our two countries, and of our two peoples, and this is why the compromise was made. Greece got the name erga omnes, we got erga omnes identity. At the same time, the identity of Macedonians living in Greece is guaranteed, this is clearly set.

And in this respect, I’m satisfied that we have a fair and legally sound decision. Which gives the chance to today’s politicians, and to their successors, and to the future generations, to cooperate through good relations..

And in this respect, I’m satisfied that we have a fair and legally sound decision. Which gives the chance to today’s politicians, and to their successors, and to the future generations, to cooperate through good relations.“

I’m sorry but I can’t or do not know how to highlight or make bold on the iPad but look at “Greece got the name erga omnes, we got erga omnes identity. At the same time, the identity of Macedonians living in Greece is guaranteed, this is clearly set.”

Does this grub even believe his own bullshit. Zajko you fucken little retard the identity of Macedonians living in Greece has never been acknowledged by Greece and never will be as long as Greece continues it’s racist policies and attempts of wiping out the Macedonian identity and culture. For Greece to acknowledge Macedonians in Greece it will mean they have to answer and admit to the forced Hellenisation of ethnic Macedonians and the ethnic, cultural and historical crimes they have committed against Macedonians and this will never happen. The sad thing is that a lot of the sheeple in the Republic will believe this grubs bullshit.

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-launches-preparations-for-name-plebiscite-07-03-2018

Macedonia Launches Preparations for Name Referendum

Macedonia has started working on preparations for the forthcoming plebiscite on its name agreement with Greece, a historic opportunity for the country to unblock its EU and NATO accession bids.

If preparations run to schedule, the earliest possible date for the crucial referendum on Macedonia’s name will be September 16, or maybe September 23, a well-informed source from the main ruling Social Democrats told BIRN on condition of anonymity.

“We would naturally push for a date as early as possible so that [if the referendum approves the name agreement] parliament will have enough time to implement the agreement by the end of the year as planned,” the source said.

Political parties must first appoint new members to the State Electoral Commission which will hold the referendum in autumn.

The parties will then need to settle on the exact referendum question and agree the exact date.

The Social Democrats source said that the ruling parties have already submitted their proposals for the new members of the State Electoral Commission.

If the opposition, from whose ranks the head of the commission should come, does the same soon, the source expects a parliament session to appointing the commission members to be set by the end of this week.

Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev told media on Tuesday that he expects this to happen soon.

Zaev said that the exact details about the referendum will be agreed after the July 11-12 NATO summit, at which the country expects to get an invitation to join the alliance.

“Immediately after this we will open the debate, we will probably determine the referendum date, the referendum question and the type of the referendum [consultative or binding],” Zaev said.

Under the historic agreement signed by the Macedonian and Greek foreign ministers in June 17, Macedonia is to change its name to the Republic of North Macedonia in exchange for the prospect of a swift accession to NATO and a start to EU accession talks.

For it to be fully implemented, the deal has to be supported by a majority of voters in Macedonia in a referendum slated for early September or late October.

This means that a minimum of 900,000 people will have to go and vote and of them more than half will have to support the deal.

So far the opposition right wing VMRO DPMNE party, which opposes the deal with Greece, describing it as treason, said that it will insist on an obligatory referendum.

Zaev's party also said that no matter the type of plebiscite, its outcome will be respected by the government.

Answering the question about the possible referendum question, Zaev said that it will definitely address the deal with Greece, as well as the country's perspective for joining NATO and EU.

[Vangelovski]

Answering the question about the possible referendum question, Zaev said that it will definitely address the deal with Greece, as well as the country's perspective for joining NATO and EU.

Sounds like the independence referendum question all over again. Convoluted and confusing, but with the promise of riches.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Sounds like the independence referendum question all over again. Convoluted and confusing, but with the promise of riches.

As if that wasn't to be expected, the question may as well be "Do you want to be rich?"

[Phoenix]

...This means that a minimum of 900,000 people will have to go and vote and of them more than half will have to support the deal...

In a Macedonia without endemic corruption, the mere thought that 900,000 people would come out and vote would be pretty much an impossibility, when considering the rampant apathy of most citizens.