Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Phoenix]

Ivanov's speech was good.

+1...

I have to agree...it also hit at the raw nerve that is the total dysfunction prevalent in Macedonian politics and the rogue nature by which Zaev and his band of traitors have operated since usurping power, particularly their more than obvious disregard for the Presidential role.

The writing was on the wall so to speak when Zaev and his fellow SDSNm thugs were throwing paint filled condoms on Macedonian monuments and thereby showing no respect to the law of the land, nor its rich history and culture...we have gone full circle, the destruction is now complete.

[Niko777]

Not one English media outlet quoted that part of Ivanov's speech.

BTW anyone notice that more and more journalists are going to Wikipedia when writing articles about Macedonia? Looks like whoever controls Wikipedia will also control the media (at least for Macedonian issues).

[Tomche Makedonche]

Articles 3(4), 6(2) and 6(3) may seem to encompass diaspora organisations and human right activities as their targets

[Risto the Great]

Based on the above bold and underlined text, its seems this will follow the same process as the bill for bilingualism and the Mandate to form government, in other words no requirement for a two thirds majority vote yet.

The constitution says this:

AMENDMENT IX
1. The Republic guarantees the protection, promotion and enhancement of the historical and artistic heritage of Macedonia and all communities in Macedonia and the treasures of which it is composed, regardless of their legal status.

Surely changing the name MACEDONIA is a fundamentally damaging blow to Macedonia's historical heritage. The heritage will no longer exist. North Macedonia will have no heritage.


On changing the constitution:

AMENDMENT XVIII
1. A decision to amend the Preamble, the articles on local self-government, Article 131, any provision relating to the rights of members of communities, including in particular Articles 7, 8, 9, 19, 48, 56, 69, 77, 78, 86, 104 and 109, as well as a decision to add any new provision relating to the subject-matter of such provisions and articles, shall require a two-thirds majority vote of the total number of Representatives, within which there must be a majority of the votes of the total number of Representatives who belong to the communities not in the majority in the population of Macedonia.

The constitution itself is not even technically able to amend many Articles. Here are Articles 1 through 6.

Article 1
The Republic of Macedonia is a sovereign, independent, democratic and social state. The sovereignty of the Republic of Macedonia is indivisible, inalienable and nontransferable.

Article 2
Sovereignty in the Republic of Macedonia derives from the citizens and belongs to the citizens.The citizens of the Republic of Macedonia exercise their authority through democratically elected Representatives, through referendum and through other forms of direct
expression. [describes rights, may be able to be changed]

Article 3
The territory of the Republic of Macedonia is indivisible and inalienable. The existing borders of the Republic of Macedonia are inviolable.The borders of the Republic of Macedonia may be changed only in accordance with the Constitution.

Article 4
Citizens of the Republic of Macedonia have citizenship of the Republic of Macedonia. A subject of the Republic of Macedonia may neither be deprived of citizenship, nor expelled or extradited to another state. Citizenship of the Republic of Macedonia is regulated by law. [describes rights, may be able to be changed]

Article 5
The state symbols of the Republic of Macedonia are the coat of arms, the flag and the national anthem. The coat of arms, the flag and the national anthem of the Republic of Macedonia are adopted by law by a two-thirds majority vote of the total number of Assembly Representatives.

Article 6
The capital of the Republic of Macedonia is Skopje.

I simply do not think the constitution is equipped to change the name of Macedonia.

[Odi Zvezdo]

Not one English media outlet quoted that part of Ivanov's speech.

BTW anyone notice that more and more journalists are going to Wikipedia when writing articles about Macedonia? Looks like whoever controls Wikipedia will also control the media (at least for Macedonian issues).

They did...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-14/macedonian-president-refuses-to-sign-off-on-new-name/9867916

[Risto the Great]

They did...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-1...w-name/9867916

From the above article:

""North Macedonia is acceptable for me," said Svetlana Jancevska, a 55-year-old music teacher in Skopje. [It will] not damage my identity as Macedonian. The language remains Macedonian and that makes me happy. It was high time for the problem to be solved."

Why can't people like this be found and "educated". Does anyone think the Jews would tolerate such dissent? It's why they are where they are and we are where we are.

I believe this is her:

https://www.facebook.com/svetlana.c.jancevska

https://soundcloud.com/svetlana-cece-jancevska/tracks

Purely because of her interest in music. I don't have Facebook. Anyone want to ask her?

[Tomche Makedonche]

From the above article:



Why can't people like this be found and "educated". Does anyone think the Jews would tolerate such dissent? It's why they are where they are and we are where we are.

I believe this is her:

https://www.facebook.com/svetlana.c.jancevska

https://soundcloud.com/svetlana-cece-jancevska/tracks

Purely because of her interest in music. I don't have Facebook. Anyone want to ask her?

At least the lawyer knew exactly what it meant

[Phoenix]

...BTW anyone notice that more and more journalists are going to Wikipedia when writing articles about Macedonia? Looks like whoever controls Wikipedia will also control the media (at least for Macedonian issues).

It's a sad reflection of how the once noble profession of journalism has been reduced to dumbing down complicated events into random snippets and sound bites in an effort to feed the machinery of the 24 hour news cycle and of course, leading the sheeple to someones self serving prefabricated end point...

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://youtu.be/Bm1PKI0yZ6c

[kompir]

Заев ќе крка кyршyм за брго време...

[kompir]

From the perspective of the Australian media:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/macedonia-name-changed-to-end-27-year-name-row-20180613-p4zl6r.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-14/macedonian-president-refuses-to-sign-off-on-new-name/9867916

[Risto the Great]

Заев ќе крка кyршyм за брго време...

I doubt it will make him a martyr.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I doubt it will make him a martyr.

He will be one for all of our enemies and the "elitists" in Europe.

[Pelagonija]

https://telma.com.mk/borisov-i-zaharieva-gi-otkazhaa-sredbite-so-ivanov/

Big George fobbed off by two face Borisov.

I guess we are one step closer to unification

[vicsinad]

Bulgaria is essentially saying they don't recognize Ivanov as Macedonia's leader. Can Ivanov now burn all copies of that Friendship Treaty?