Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Volk]

Their existence is not my problem. I take issue with some of their policies which I find to be hypocritical and detrimental to the Macedonian Cause. And nobody here (certainly not the MTO Inc.) has asked for their "leadership" anywhere - let alone in Washington.

The benefit -> Having a Macedonian voice in Washington.
Their ideology -> Obligate Greece to abide by the IA and accept Macedonia as FYROM in the EU and NATO.

Either you're ideologically flawed yourself, or you just don't understand what you're saying.

Its been around a year since they started to call on the government to end the name negotiations (unless you know something I dont), so your statement reflects their past policy and is not a true reflection since that time.

Makedonce, there does not need to be a thread titled "Destroy UMD", a short browsing through the forum shows the sentiment which comes directly from the top.

As I stated my message was a collective one directed at members of the forum that have that destroy attitude, I was not directing it at yourself. I was prompted to write it because you asked what "UMD is doing about it" which means you ask for leadership from them (at the same time they are chased away from the forum)..

I have no intention of putting together evidence of a vendetta, I was specifically referring to Tom, that is my personal opinion.

As for

(a) FINDINGS.—Congress finds the following:
18 (1) Greece has demonstrated an enormous good
19 will gesture in agreeing that ‘‘Macedonia’’ may be
20 included in the future name of the Former Yugoslav
21 Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) as long as that
22 term is combined with a geographic qualifier that
23 makes it clear that there are no territorial ambitions
24 on the part of the FYROM with regard to the his-
1 torical boundaries of the Greek province of Mac2
edonia.

A simple remedy would be abandoning the 'name negotiations'. The relevance of the US is diminishing and the bought out bureaucrats that came up with that garbage will have other things to worry about.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Its been around a year since they started to call on the government to end the name negotiations (unless you know something I dont), so your statement reflects their past policy and is not a true reflection since that time.

Clearly, I do know something you don't - how to keep up with the news. This is from a statement released by your friends at the UMD a little over a week ago:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=106083#post106083

Rather than continuing these infantile fruitless games regarding the Republic of Macedonia‟s accession into multilateral organizations (and to violate its obligation under the 1995 Interim Accord to not object to Macedonia‟s entry into NATO when using the term to which the parties agreed when they went before the UN in 1993), and to abuse its own Macedonian identifying citizens, Greece should rise above its xenophobia and concentrate its energies on solving its dire, internal political and economic crisis.

Do I need to remind you what the term is? FYROM, or, 'former yugoslav Republic of Macedonia'. You've completely discredited yourself in this thread.

[Bill77]

Australian MP: Efforts are made to recognize Macedonia...

Australian MP: Efforts are made to recognize Macedonia...

There are strong supporters of the Republic of Macedonia in Australia. Efforts are made towards speeding up the recognition of the Republic of Macedonia under the constructional name, John Hyde - a member in the Western Australian Legislative Assembly - said Friday after meeting the chairman of Parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee, Antonio Milososki.
"Visits are being organised in a bid to strengthen the ties between Western Australia and Macedonia. Western Australia is now economically powerful in Australia. A colleague of mine from the Labour Party will come to Macedonia next week," Hyde stated.
After meeting in the Macedonian Parliament, Milososki noted that the frequent parliamentary communication between Australia and Macedonia was enhancing the political cooperation.
"Macedonia has a strong interest in bolstering the political communication with Australia. The Macedonian community in Australia, especially in Perth and Western Australia, contributes a lot to the political, economic and cultural life and development of Australia. Priorities need to be focused on cooperation related to trade, politics and at multilateral level," committee's chairman said.
Milososki said he hoped that parliamentary cooperation between the countries would be enhanced with the election of a deputy from Australia to represent the interests of the diaspora in Macedonia's Parliament.
Interlocutors at the meeting discussed Macedonian-Australian ties.
"Cooperation has been established within the United Nations, while Australian and Macedonian troops work together in the ISAF mission in Afghanistan. Political close ties between Macedonia and Australia could boost our position within Australia's home policy in relation to issues involving the Macedonian national interest and promotion of country's national and cultural identity in Australia and beyond," Milososki stressed.
The MP said many immigrants from Macedonia had settled in Australia, especially in Western Australia. "Macedonians in Western Australia are very appreciated for their success in the business community," Hyde said.
The chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Milososki thanked Hyde for his efforts and those by the Labour Party to represent and promote the Macedonian national interests.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/18688/1/

Promising.......but i would not hold my breath.

[Phoenix]

The MP said many immigrants from Macedonia had settled in Australia, especially in Western Australia. "Macedonians in Western Australia are very appreciated for their success in the business community," Hyde said.

It's a pity the Macedonians in Australia aren't appreciated on the basic level of human rights and the self determination that is afforded to every other ethnic community in this country.

Unfortunately it seems that we haven't achieved enough "success in the business community in this country" to achieve uncompromised recognition from the Australian government.

[Zarni]

Sadly you are correct about Macedonians not being high achievers in the Business community macedonians keep wealth close to their chests we certanly are not like Greeks who command a position in the media

[Phoenix]

Sadly you are correct about Macedonians not being high achievers in the Business community macedonians keep wealth close to their chests we certanly are not like Greeks who command a position in the media

That's not what I meant...

It appears that basic human rights, like the respect for self determination takes 2nd or 3rd place compared to business success, perhaps if we had more successful business people then our human rights would be more readily granted.

[Zarni]

I think we have successful Macedonians I know many Macedonians that are fitly rich but the wealth is kept in the family

Greeks on the other hand will build a business then you will set them sponsoring a sports team, a charity or a local community cause building more links in the community through who they are

Macedonians don’t have that same attitude in Business

[United MKD]

Because Macedonians don't like each other, I don't know one family who is on speaking terms with all of their relatives. We're very jealous people so it doesn't surprise me if wealth is only kept in the family.

[Volk]

Clearly, I do know something you don't - how to keep up with the news. This is from a statement released by your friends at the UMD a little over a week ago:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=106083#post106083

Do I need to remind you what the term is? FYROM, or, 'former yugoslav Republic of Macedonia'. You've completely discredited yourself in this thread.

if your referring to this

Quote:
Greece‟s stubbornness and total disregard for its obligations under the 1995 Interim Accord with Macedonia have resulted in Macedonia wrongfully being blocked from accession into NATO.
Quote:
(and to violate its obligation under the 1995 Interim Accord to not object to Macedonia‟s entry into NATO when using the term to which the parties agreed when they went before the UN in 1993)

So what? Macedonia signed it and upheld it, greece broke it. and what?
I dont see how them pointing this out to H. Clinton means they all of a sudden do not call on Macedonia to end the negotiations. They have called the Macedonians to do this have they not?

What is of greater significance, pointing out to Clinton what has happened or telling the MKD government to end the 'negotiations'?

My credibility is not measured by me seeing eye to eye with your interpretations of UMD statements. If that's your measure I could not care less.

[makedonche]

if your referring to this



So what? Macedonia signed it and upheld it, greece broke it. and what?
I dont see how them pointing this out to H. Clinton means they all of a sudden do not call on Macedonia to end the negotiations. They have called the Macedonians to do this have they not?

What is of greater significance, pointing out to Clinton what has happened or telling the MKD government to end the 'negotiations'?

My credibility is not measured by me seeing eye to eye with your interpretations of UMD statements. If that's your measure I could not care less.

Volk
I'm sure SOM will respond in due course, just to point out the obvious and the point I beleive he was making :-
The poniting out of the breach of the IA and it's subsequent defence to Clinton, demonstrates the willingness and acceptance of the IA by whoever is advocating it - whether it's UMD, me or you! The message I get from SOM is end the negotiations and terminate the IA, and stop pointing towards the IA saying "look Greece is in breach of this agreement" - because that is an admission that you accept the IA and all it's implications, including the acronym!

[Vodach]

Ditto

I agree with UnitedMKD. We are not people who support our own, hence why we were easily broken up as a country. Too many people who look out for themselves and not for the good of others.

The greeks look out for one another, in the US, they would even hire Macedonians (I know of two examples) where people told them they were Macedonians and got hired! The greek owner told them "I'd rather trust you than any American".

Currently Greece is being pretty much raped by the IMF/EU, however if you look at the map, they were the only ones who protested against it. They are always united, as people. If we're like that, no one would mess with us. You can't be influenced from outside if you're united inside. In MKD we may never unite, not when you have robots walking around waiting to pounce (SDSM).

[Soldier of Macedon]

Macedonia signed it and upheld it, greece broke it. and what?

Macedonia never should have signed it. Period.

What is of greater significance, pointing out to Clinton what has happened or telling the MKD government to end the 'negotiations'?

The UMD is using this example of treachery to plea their case to Clinton by complaining that Greece didn't accept Macedonia as FYROM. On the other hand they claim that Macedonia should end the negotiations. And you still can't see the hypocrisy, or perhaps you can.

My credibility is not measured by me seeing eye to eye with your interpretations of UMD statements. If that's your measure I could not care less.

You've proven yourself to be as fickle as Meto, and you also share his other characteristic but not being able to admit where you are wrong. That is why you have no credibility. You may consider yourself a patriot in your own deluded way, but ultimately, you're just another UMD tool.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Volk
I'm sure SOM will respond in due course, just to point out the obvious......!

You're talking a brick wall mate. Even if he knows he is wrong, he still won't admit it. Must be some sort of UMD syndrome.

[George S.]

I appreceate john hyde doing something on a personal level.But the labour party is committed to the greeks as that's where the million greek vote in melbourne is.

[Volk]

Macedonia never should have signed it. Period.

Thanks for pointing the obvious out.

The UMD is using this example of treachery to plea their case to Clinton by complaining that Greece didn't accept Macedonia as FYROM. On the other hand they claim that Macedonia should end the negotiations. And you still can't see the hypocrisy, or perhaps you can.

So exactly what where they trying to achieve by doing this?

You've proven yourself to be as fickle as Meto, and you also share his other characteristic but not being able to admit where you are wrong. That is why you have no credibility. You may consider yourself a patriot in your own deluded way, but ultimately, you're just another UMD tool.

what am I wrong about? perhaps you can highlight it for everyone to see... wow judging someone you know nothing about, because they don't agree with your interpretations of UMD statement... Self declared king of Macedonia?