Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Zarni]

No Macedonian genuinely wants a name change, yet it is absolutely inevitable in this current epoch

That really does sum it up

[Pelister]

A tiny Macedonian elite (now led by Gruevski) has moved the issue of our admission to the U.N out of the U.N institution (where it should have been dealt with properly), and onto the world stage.

What should have been an issue to be addressed within the U.N institution, has become an international freak show! Why would individual put the name of our country, up for 'negotiation' in the first place? Why take it out of the U.N? Why not simply pursue our admission to the U.N through its formal structures? Sooner or later the Macedonians have to wake up. It is a tiny Macedonian elite meddling with our identity - the threat is an internal one. Gruevski and UMD are sacrificing our identity on the E.U altar - those pricks worship that institution like blind fools.

These idiots have to find other ways to express their demands, other than sacrificing our national identity and political existence. I mean could we have a more stupid bunch of people running the country?

[Pelister]

Our identity hijacked by politicians

The expert legal advise (which I will repost here later) indicates that the Macedonian government has not been officially, nor formally blocked from the United Nations.

The issue of our admission to the United Nations, is an issue to be dealt appropriately within the U.N institution - not outside of it. The only way to gain admission to the U.N is to work within the procesess and structures of the U.N institution - not move outside it.

What Gruevski is doing (and other Macedonian politicians have done), is take the issue of our admission - and moved it outside of the U.N institution. These Macedonian politicians (and UMD) have single handedly deceived the Macedonian people into believing that firstly, we are formally blocked from the U.N (in fact we are not) and, secondly, that this is the only way to be recognised internationally. Both of these propositions - pushed by UMD and by Gruevski, are lies - plain and simple. The issue of our admission to the U.N should have been an issue dealt with strictly within the U.N - instead, Gruevski has taken it out of the U.N. By doing this he has recklessly exposed our identity, and our name - to foriegn intereference, and put us well on the path toward political extinction. Can you imagine a Macedonian politician suggesting that our political existence, will at some stage be put to vote, even though our admission to the United Nations is just waiting there to be actioned by a Macedonian leader, someone, anyone!

Our admission to the United Nations is waiting to be actioned! Gruevski refuses to do it. Macedonians have to think long and hard about 'who' is in fact meddling with our identity.

I will post the advice of legal experts at a later date.

[Pelister]

I think that Gruevski is trying to "disconnect" the past from the present - to try to move away from the past, rather than squarely face it. He is not interested in a debate about historical evidence, or the fact that the "Greek position is based on a foundation of lies" (Hans Lother Shteppen). He would rather move away from it which is why he (and UMD) are deadly silent about the past and about the actual nature of the Greek position. There is a powerful tendency in Gruevski and UMD to "disconnect" us from our past, while the rest of us are trying desperately to reclaim it. This kind of "will to forget" is a kind of post-colonial amnesia of the recent colonial past. It is part of the push by a Macedonian elite to push the Macedonians toward some kind of historical re-invention, or a so called 'new start'. What these cosmopolitan globalists propose will fulfill the objectives of our enemies - namely, that we cease to exist as we are.

[makedonche]

Pelister
You are right about the UN and I fear nobody is taking any notice of what you are saying! For what it's worth I think it may be time to start a campaign to force Gruevski to the UN and declare the Macedonian name simply as "Macedonia" and if anyone has issues with that they can take it up with the UN and it's process for dealing with the matter. No more politicians playing handball with our identity or selling it out for some FA or IA or even EU financing/membership.
Whilst I commend the MHRMI for the "stop the negotiations" campaign it is time to be more positive and proactive, rather than reactive and demanding something stop, be proactive by demanding something start - the claim to our identity at the UN! I'ts time for:-
Macedonia in the UN by 2011"



No FYROM, No Ventilator, No Interim Accord, No Framework Agreement, No EU and no more tolerance of traitors advocating any of the prior chains and shackles on the Macedonian people!

[George S.]

Don't we know it we've been let down by the politicians.Now that they been reelected does that give them the right to do anything?Does it mean they can continue with the name talks?we have seen that macedonia is working from the outside to get in not workinig within.The politicians seem to be their own worst enemies.

[indigen]

Pelister
You are right about the UN and I fear nobody is taking any notice of what you are saying! For what it's worth I think it may be time to start a campaign to force Gruevski to the UN and declare the Macedonian name simply as "Macedonia" and if anyone has issues with that they can take it up with the UN and it's process for dealing with the matter. No more politicians playing handball with our identity or selling it out for some FA or IA or even EU financing/membership.
Whilst I commend the MHRMI for the "stop the negotiations" campaign it is time to be more positive and proactive, rather than reactive and demanding something stop, be proactive by demanding something start - the claim to our identity at the UN! I'ts time for:-
Macedonia in the UN by 2011"



No FYROM, No Ventilator, No Interim Accord, No Framework Agreement, No EU and no more tolerance of traitors advocating any of the prior chains and shackles on the Macedonian people!

Macedonian Blitzkrieg!!!

[indigen]

I think that Gruevski is trying to "disconnect" the past from the present - to try to move away from the past, rather than squarely face it. He is not interested in a debate about historical evidence, or the fact that the "Greek position is based on a foundation of lies" (Hans Lother Shteppen). He would rather move away from it which is why he (and UMD) are deadly silent about the past and about the actual nature of the Greek position. There is a powerful tendency in Gruevski and UMD to "disconnect" us from our past, while the rest of us are trying desperately to reclaim it. This kind of "will to forget" is a kind of post-colonial amnesia of the recent colonial past. It is part of the push by a Macedonian elite to push the Macedonians toward some kind of historical re-invention, or a so called 'new start'. What these cosmopolitan globalists propose will fulfill the objectives of our enemies - namely, that we cease to exist as we are.

You are right, there is such push and those with keen and critical eye can easily observe this trend, IMHO! The page about "Ethnic Macedonians" floating around FB and sourced from Wikipedia (no doubt written by our external and/or internal enemies) is a good indication of the new (slightly modified old version of YugoSLAV) history that will be imposed as valid for the (New) "Macedonians" in the Republic of X.

[Zarni]

No FYROM, No Ventilator, No Interim Accord, No Framework Agreement, No EU and no more tolerance of traitors advocating any of the prior chains and shackles on the Macedonian people!

A new Macedonian Manifesto this deserves to be the MTO's official slogan

[vojnik]

The name negotiations can be ended anytime as can the Interm accord Greece is not one of the biggest investors in Macedonia anymore an embargo from Greece wont effect Macedonia the way it did 16 years ago, since they were replaced by Turkey. The only haard thing to change would be The Framework Agreement it sold the country to the Albanians and voiding that agreement would result in another war and Macedonia just doesn't have to political might for this. As much as I would love for these things to happen the harsh reality is we have a country run by traitors and no "real" military force

[Pelister]

The name negotiations can be ended anytime as can the Interm accord Greece is not one of the biggest investors in Macedonia anymore an embargo from Greece wont effect Macedonia the way it did 16 years ago, since they were replaced by Turkey. The only haard thing to change would be The Framework Agreement it sold the country to the Albanians and voiding that agreement would result in another war and Macedonia just doesn't have to political might for this. As much as I would love for these things to happen the harsh reality is we have a country run by traitors and no "real" military force

I agree, the name negotiations can be ended an any time, but they should be ended immediately.

The issue of our admission to the U.N should be pursued from inside the U.N institution itself (which is what they should have done in the first place).

Greece is irrelevent, as is the E.U. We can pursue our economic prosperity outside of these two anti-Macedonian agencies.

The Framework Agreement has to be reversed, but you are right when you say that this will be harder to do as Albanians are unlikely to give up political and legal jurisdiction of areas - now that they have it without a fight.

[Pelister]

Pelister
You are right about the UN and I fear nobody is taking any notice of what you are saying! For what it's worth I think it may be time to start a campaign to force Gruevski to the UN and declare the Macedonian name simply as "Macedonia" and if anyone has issues with that they can take it up with the UN and it's process for dealing with the matter. No more politicians playing handball with our identity or selling it out for some FA or IA or even EU financing/membership.
Whilst I commend the MHRMI for the "stop the negotiations" campaign it is time to be more positive and proactive, rather than reactive and demanding something stop, be proactive by demanding something start - the claim to our identity at the UN! I'ts time for:-
Macedonia in the UN by 2011"

I think your right when you say no one is listening. Taking the issue of our admission out of the U.N institution - can only mean one thing. The politicians are not interested in our admission to the U.N - they are more interested in seeing how much mileage they can get out of this whole thing. The result of course is that a few key individuals now have our identity in real time political play - on the negotiating table behind closed doors, and Gruevski even threaten to escalate the entire process to a single vote! It should never have been taken out of the U.N. in the first place.

I think it may be time to start a campaign to force Gruevski to the UN and declare the Macedonian name simply as "Macedonia" and if anyone has issues with that they can take it up with the UN and it's process for dealing with the matter.

I agree, completely with you. If the issue stayed in the U.N, Greece would then have to take the issue up with the United Nations institution.

The trouble is that Gruevski is fully aware that he has taken the issue out of the U.N. The traitor, won't do anything about it, because its proven politically popular for him to continue lying to the Macedonian people. UMD and Meto are in the same boat - they have known about this all along, but continued to bullshit their way through it by talking up the E.U ...etc.

[makedonche]

Pelister
Let this be the start of a campaign to get the issue back into the UN and out of the hands of negotiators - and if anyone disagrees with this, then there's your traitors!

[Mastika]

The title of this thread is "Our identity hijacked by politicians". Fair enough, but, what are people doing to drown the politicians out? Where are our cultural, social, artistic and religious leaders? (What are they doing to 'reclaim' our identity which has been hijacked by the politicians?) Why is it assumed that only politicians are capable of leadership? Why has there not been a concerted effort by these people who hold in influence in Macedonia to drown out the spin constantly being put forward by the politicians. Why do we never hear of non-politicians talking about our identity and who we are (to a wider audience, not only just in Macedonia).

I might sound like I am ranting, but where are the other people who are respected and meant to be 'leading' the Macedonian people?

[Risto the Great]

Where are our cultural, social, artistic and religious leaders?

No idea.
This will never be remembered as Macedonia's "golden period". Decades of commie love is not exactly a conducive environment for restoring some pride in the Macedonian identity.