Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[julie]

Astounding. Greeks have no issue with the macedonian name , seems the macedonian politicians are playing a dangerous game with our identity . How much more proof do the macedonian people need

[Phoenix]

RTG
It would seem they love the euro....and lots of them, so much so that you can change the Country's flag, change it's name and capitulate to terrorists, if you have enough euro's on the table, that is!

Bingo!!!, although in the context of this thead it may be an inappropriate term, clearly it's about money...

Just take a look at what we're dealing with...on one side we have the 'greeks', as shifty and conniving as they come, experts in the greasing of palms and capable of doing anything to win favors...then on the other side, a procession of money starved criminals acting as politicians who are more than happy to sell off baba and dedo for a couple of euro and a 7 night holiday on Mykonos where they can cop some extra anal action...

Just look at all of these gypsies caught up in the latest bribery sting, the dog Thaler and his pack...this is the sort of action our leaders want to be involved in...at the expense of the rest of us, our culture and our history.

[Prolet]

Pangalos: Macedonia is Macedonia, name problem is a "Disaster"

Pangalos is widely known for his hip hopping on the Macedonian issue, i dont think he likes Vinozito very much. I wonder if the neo fascist groups in Greece will slaughter him for this.

Monday, 21 March 2011

Wikileaks cables show Greek Deputy Prime Minister Theodoros Pangalos, told the US Ambassador to the country that the name dispute with Macedonia has been a "disaster" from the start and that Greece's neighbor should be allowed to use any name it wants.

According to a batch of classified diplomatic cables from the US Embassy in Athens that were originally obtained by WikiLeaks and later seen by the Greek daily Kathimerini, Pangalos met with then US Ambassador Daniel Speckhard in February 2008. In Spechkard's dispatch to the State Department, the diplomat reports that Pangalos said it was an honor to Greece that Skopje should want to use the term Macedonia and that it should be free to do so.

Pangalos also describes as "absurd" Greek fears that the 'FYR Macedonia' has expansionist tendencies. He blamed this on fears on the right of Greek politics, which stem back to the Civil War and concerns that communists would enter Greece from the Slavic countries.

According to the cable, Pangalos also expressed support for the proposals put forward by United Nations mediator Matthew Nimetz.

Theodoros Pangalos is a prominent Greek politician and leading member of the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK). He currently serves as the Vice-President of the Greek government, responsible for the coordination of the Government Council for Foreign Affairs and Defense and the new Economic & Social Policy Committee.

He is one of the very few Greek politicians that has paid an official visit to Macedonia.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17806/1/

[George S.]

THey want money to change the name.Remember greece has squirilled billions away from the eu.What's a couple of billion euros amongs't friends.Remember how our macedonian politicians went to athens on secret talks about the name.

[Big Bad Sven]

I think this is the further proof, on the subject that we have already known about, that the modern day “greek” has very little to do with Macedonia, so little that it doesn’t care one bit about Macedonia or this ridiculous “name game”.

The only people in grease that are affected and care about the Macedonian “issue” are the lost grkomani, because they are scared of their grkoman mask to fall off and then be revealed of what they are, posers and nobodys, just fakes.

It is obvious grease has nothing to loose in this, just embarrassment, whilst Macedonia has EVERYTHING to loose, as Macedonia is ours, and always was ours. Loosing Macedonia will be final nail in the coffin not only for the republic of Macedonia, but everything Macedonian.

[Stojacanec]

You don’t become a member of a club such as the EU at the expense of a country’s sovereignty. I have spoken with an Italian once where he voiced his disapproval for being part of the EU.

Countries in the past have withdrawn their applications from the EU for good reason.
Macedonia has a sovereign right to enter as ROM whether Grease likes it or not.

The entry into the EU should be judged on the same merits as any other country such as Grease who entered in 1981.

[makedonche]

Bingo!!!, although in the context of this thead it may be an inappropriate term, clearly it's about money...

Just take a look at what we're dealing with...on one side we have the 'greeks', as shifty and conniving as they come, experts in the greasing of palms and capable of doing anything to win favors...then on the other side, a procession of money starved criminals acting as politicians who are more than happy to sell off baba and dedo for a couple of euro and a 7 night holiday on Mykonos where they can cop some extra anal action...

Just look at all of these gypsies caught up in the latest bribery sting, the dog Thaler and his pack...this is the sort of action our leaders want to be involved in...at the expense of the rest of us, our culture and our history.

Phoenix
Spot on, it's becoming glaringly obvious...as RTG says..." not that hard to connect the dots"....... still what did we expect? the lying, thieving Gypsies from the south have spread their cancer to RoM - amazingly very easily and at a resonable cost! Shit you'd think the RoM politicians would have held out for Billions instead of just Millions! - ...just shows their mental weakness and political immaturity.

[Lügendetektor]

Kurov me zabole za ventilatorot, ako ni go smenat imeto moze i propeler ke ni stavat...

thats the point.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Kurov me zabole za ventilatorot, ako ni go smenat imeto moze i propeler ke ni stavat...

thats the point.

You've basically indicated you don't care about the new flag of capitulation, yet you keep using it. What is your 'point' by using it? The more you condone the new flag of capitulation the more you justify the treacherous decision to change the original flag, and, indirectly, the name. And in case you haven't realised, the name has already been changed. Only in Macedonia and countries that we have good relations with are we called Macedonia - the rest of the world (including international organisations) call us by that treacherous acronym. It is all part of the same package.

Keep up the great initiatives, just don't keep shooting yourself in the foot by claiming your national and human rights on the one hand and promoting those rights with a treacherous symbol on the other. All Macedonians need to start showing consistency.

[indigen]

Kurov me zabole za ventilatorot, ako ni go smenat imeto moze i propeler ke ni stavat...

thats the point.

A koj mislish li deka kje (ili raboti za da) ni go smeni imeto (iako vekje e smenato za poslednive skoro 20 godini na megjunarodnata scena!), vnatreshnite izrodi, kupoci i predavnici ili nadvoreshni sili (ili site ovie zaedno)?

NEZAVISNA MAKEDONIJA

Mnogu se slu{a i ~ita denovive deka ovoj ili onoj, ovaa ili onaa partija ili zdru`enie bile za "nezavisna Makedonija" nadevaj}i se deka so toa }e go doka`at svojot patriotizam. Me|u onie koi se i bile za "nezavisna Makedonija" se MPO, Ivan (Van~o) Mihajlov i redica drugi bugaromani i "prijateli na Makedonija". Me|u niv po~esno mesto ima i bugarskiot pretsedatel Stojanov koj vo svojata posledna poseta na Skopje izvikna pred site "da `ivee nezavisna Makedonija". Ovoj gest samo go potvrdi ona {to go znaeja mnogu: parolata za "nezavisna Makedonija" e premnogu zloupotrebena i nikako ne zna~i deka onie koi ja izustuvaat se "makedonski patrioti". Naprotiv. Stanuva zbor samo za fasada zad koja mo`at da se krijat razni oportunisti, antimakedonci i sekakvi drugi.

Br. 333 10/11/2000

http://www.makedonskosonce.com/broevis/2000/sonce333/Tekst04.htm

Miloshoski i eden kup kako nego vo "DPMNE" se od ovaa ista tajfa bugaromanska i jas ne ochekuvam deka tie kje gi branat makedonskite nacionalni interesi.

[indigen]

Seeing as the letter of our amatuer Foreign Minister Milososki has recently come to light, it is perhaps timely to have a refresh on the Interim Accord for all the goldfish out there.

The full text of the Interim Accord (from the UN database) can be found here:

http://untreaty.un.org/unts/120001_1...3/00004456.pdf

Key Articles in the Interim Accord which Undermine Macedonian Sovereignty

a) Macedonia agrees to negotiate its name (Article 5);

b) Macedonia agrees to renounce all claims to its ethnic/historic territory and agrees NOT to pursue the rights of Macedonians not only in Greece but in ANY OTHER STATE (Article 6);

c) Macedonia agrees to renounce the Sonce as its national symbol AND any other symbols that Greece considers to be part of its historic or cultural heritage (Article 7); and

d) Macedonia agrees to only enter international organisations under FYROM (Article 11).

In addition, another article of interest is the following (I would not necessarily argue that this undermines Macedonian national sovereignty for the simple fact that the ICJ is a limitation on national sovereignty, it is nonetheless rather stupid):

e) Macedonia agrees that the two parties will not “resolve” the name dispute through the International Court of Justice – i.e., Igor Janev’s proposal (Article 21).

I recommenced to all those that see the current ICJ case as some sort of "positive" contest between Macedonia and Greece to read and COMPREHEND what the "Interim Accord" entails and what are the CONS from Macedonia going to the ICJ to ENFORCE such an ANTI-MACEDONIAN CAPITULATION "AGREEMENT"!

IMO, this topic also needs to be a sticky for the short-term and is one reason I get cranky when some thoughtless MTO members start five or six new "news" (copy-paste from MINA or Sitel) threads which then results in these ideologically valuable topics being pushed down and out of the screen.

[Mactruth]

BBC report on Greece's name dispute

Please watch the video I cannot upload it because I am on my iPhone. It is amazing to hear how diluted the Greeks living in Aegean Macedonia are. They ignore that Macedonia was divided in 1913 and that their ancestors were living in Turkey 100 years ago, they still assume they are the descendent of ancient Macedonians and that there is only one Macedonia (which is true, an undivided one). They state look at history but ignore the last 200 years, the paradox of Greece is shown to perfection in this video.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12901792

The International Court of Justice is currently hearing arguments in a lawsuit linked to one of Europe's most intractable disputes.

For almost two decades, Macedonia has been locked in a row with Greece over its name.

Greece also has a province called Macedonia and says the country cannot use the same name.

The BBC's Mark Lowen travelled to both countries to gauge public opinion.

[Risto the Great]

Nice to see Macedonia mentioned on a video.
Not much else to take from it unfortunately.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I was listening to the BBC broadcast last night, I think it was pretty objective overall, the problem is, a perception is being formed that excludes the reasons and circumstances that led to this ordeal between Macedonia and Greece. Not one mention of the Macedonian minority in Greece, not one mention of Greece's anti-Macedonian and generally anti-minority policies, not one mention about the Macedonian revolutionaries that fought for independence in the 19th and 20th century.

[George S.]

Really greece holds macedonia because the three countries decided to divide macedonia up.It was illegal & as MacTruth says they don't want to remember how it all happened.The truth is if greece did not show up within a couple of hours Bulgaria wanted to take agean Macedonia.All along this time greece has tried to lie that there is no macedonian minority & has denied their basic human rights.The attrocities committed by greece can be very basic not allowing spoken macedonian in the home or identifying as macedonians which was forbidden.In 1912 at the time of occupation the ethnic macedonians endopi were indigenous to that area were the majority & greeks numbered approximately 10% of the population.The greeks before the occupation even had an embassy in solun.In the 1920's the greeks tried to displace the macedonian population by expelling them with population exchanges.