Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Pelister]

UMD are messed up.

A genuine and long lasting peace can only come through a mutual recognition of the past, including recent past events, which need to be openly discussed, and talked about, particularly the simple FACTS (i.e., invasion, dispossession, oppression...etc), which should be made clear have nothing to do with territorial pretensions, but are voiced because they need to be, and only in an effort to reach some consensus. Sweeping this under the carpet, and trying to speed rail some kind of an artificial 'solution' based on Greek lies is only going to lead to our destruction. It is far more civilised to raise outstanding questions of historical injustices, openly and honestly, through promoting a mutual understanding and agreement, that using our identity as leverage in a game of poker.

We need to think about what the 'civilised' people, like Meto at UMD are really advocating here.

[lavce pelagonski]

Have you all forgatten that Ivanov is from Kukush my brother met him in 2009 when he gave my brother Macedonian citizenship, he said there is no way we willl change the name same with Gruevski.

[julie]

Lavce, they say one thing, and then mean another.
If they were truly serious about Macedonian cause, our name, our freedom, then they would not be holding referendums, rigged census were it seems the writing is on the wall for us, a fait accompli, taking Greece to court for not upholding their end of the framework agreement??????? (that one had me scratching my head), and continuing negotiations.
If they were legit, negotiations would cease. Immediately. Macedonia would stand strong. And fuck that ali baba ahmeti drug lord shiptar out of parliament, on grounds of , refusing to speak the national language. Simple.

[Risto the Great]

I had high hopes for Ivanov.
I have no idea why he would demean himself by embracing such treacherous items like the Interim Accord. Having said that, I rate him higher than Gruevski (based on gut instinct only).

[George S.]

if the leaders are losing it what hope have we got.THe compromising of the flag & the name allready to fyrom is totally unacceptavle.Knowing this well we can kiss our name goodbye if the politicians sell us out.here is the unwavering attitude gone.They say they won't change the name but do things like discuss compromises & talks well allready that is becoming a sell out.Why discuss your name with the enemy greece.Greece is not compromising on anything why should we.Greece needs to accept the fact that over it's border is macedonia.There is no sound reason to hold talks on the name unless you are planning a comprimise like with the flag.129 countries know that our name is macedonia.We would be silly to change our constitutional name.

[Daniel the Great]

It sounds like Gjorge Ivanov handled himself well in this interview, he should of also added that Macedonia is our historical name as well as our constitutional name, and note that the name "Macedonia" does not belong to Greece because Greece only started using the name in the 1980s. What does "Erga omnes" mean by the way, this stupid name negotiations isn't going anywhere especially with Greece's absurd proposals, i say close the negotiations, it's the only way Macedonia will move forward socially and economically.

I can't believe that the Macedonian government has put our identity in foreigners hands (as if they care about our wishes).

[Prolet]

Have you all forgatten that Ivanov is from Kukush my brother met him in 2009 when he gave my brother Macedonian citizenship, he said there is no way we willl change the name same with Gruevski.

Enough bending over backwards just to please them, no more.

This is getting ridiculous now, i believe Gjorgje Ivanov is having a go at Erwan Fuere for deleting our identity. Here is what Omo Ilinden Pirin had to say.

Веднаш да се прекинат преговорите со ПЕДЕРИТЕ и ФАШИСТИТЕ од ЕУ!!!

[Risto the Great]

Prolet, if that is what OMO Ilinden said, they should be lined up and shot. Where did you get that quote?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I doubt they would have said "pederite".

Prolet, I have never seen you this upset at Gruevski, and he has probably said worse/weaker than Ivanov.

[Vangelovski]

What does "Erga omnes" mean by the way

It means 'relating to everyone' - I think he's using it in the sense of a name "solution" that is good for everyone...

[indigen]

It means 'relating to everyone' - I think he's using it in the sense of a name "solution" that is good for everyone...

In our case, it means a new state name to be applied across the board - for domestic use and internationally by ALL states and organisations. This is to also apply on identity as well.

What Ivanov and Gruevski are opposed to is exactly that but ARE WILLING to settle for a "RATIONAL COMPROMISE" ("RAZUMEN KOMPROMIS"), which can be open to interpretation but there have been a lot of indications as to what that may be!

Бошковски бара од Груевски да ја објасни позицијата на власта - дали договара промена на името и кој е компромисот.

„Да чуеме по толку време да ни објасни, што е разумен компромис за кој се залага, со кого е тој компромис, со СДСМ и со партиите кои се за промена на името или дали е разумен компромис нудењето на привремената референца БЈРМ за влез во НАТО, што за ДПМНЕ отсекогаш беше неприфатливо решение“, изјави Љубе Бошковски.

http://a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=130033

[Makedonska_Kafana]

The World Macedonian Diaspora will NOT accept any changes including being accepted under FYROM. After, what Athens has done to ethnic Macedonians since 1913 any further ethnic cleansing should be viewed as a death wish to those responsible.

ROM almost handed Athens a free gift and we will make sure that never happens again - ever

[Makedonska_Kafana]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/opinion/11iht-edjessen.html?_r=1

Meto Koloski (facebook)

Macedonia was, is, and always will be Macedonia! The article was a good article I thought. Macedonia has lost a lot of support over the last years, so we need to build that support back.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/op...ssen.html?_r=1

meto koloski (facebook)

macedonia was, is, and always will be macedonia! The article was a good article i thought. Macedonia has lost a lot of support over the last years, so we need to build that support back.

nothing good about being accepted as fyrom

[Vangelovski]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/op...ssen.html?_r=1

Meto Koloski (facebook)

Macedonia was, is, and always will be Macedonia! The article was a good article I thought. Macedonia has lost a lot of support over the last years, so we need to build that support back.

MK - are these Meto's comments? How's it a good article?

For NATO membership, Washington and Brussels should insist that Greece live up to its 1995 agreement to accept Skopje under the euphemistic and anachronistic name “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (Fyrom).” Provided Skopje is prepared to signal its willingness to add an acceptable geographic qualifier to its name, it is time also for the E.U. to give Macedonia a date for the start of accession talks, a move that would further stabilize the country and also create a strong incentive for Skopje and Athens to come to terms.

This article calls on us to be admitted to NATO under FYROM and to accept a "geographic qualifier" for the name for EU membeship.