Australian position on Macedonia

[XRVOL]

People can't expect the Macedonian community to all of a sudden fall away from the ALP. Our community leaders should have continuously kept in contact with the Greens and the Democrats with the momentum established during the last elections. But ever since then, i have heard nothing from those parties regarding Macedonians and nothing from community leaders regarding those parties.

If we expect to get results, we need to put in the hard yards.

At the very least, the Australian Macedonian media should campaign for a Macedonian Liberal candidate, if there is one this time around. And explain very clearly to them that voting for a Liberal Macedonian candidate will not mean the ALP loses the election, for the ALP die-hards (most of the community).

[sf.]

The Greens are kurvi like the rest of them, and can afford to indulge Macedonians as long as they never come into the position to be accountable for their promises. Forget about them and focus on lobbying the two major parties. We need to engage with the mainstream, not the alternative parties.

Send your local MP a letter with your interests and demands and if they do not respond kindly, inform them that as a protest, you will vote for their main opponent. If we all did this, they will start to notice.

[Rogi]

5 letters per electorate is all it takes to be noticed (anything less, is ignored).
20 letters per electorate just cannot not be ignored.
This is generally their (electorate officers) rules.

Generally, what they do is multiply the number of similar letters by a certain factor (i.e. 20 in most cases) to work out roughly how many constituents of the electorate would share the sentiments of those letters and would vote accordingly based on the issues raised in the letters.

So find 5-10 people in your area (electorate) and get them to write a letter each - it must be more than 5 individuals, or they'll ignore it. Then mail them by post.

That alone will create momentum and cause the Macedonian community to be noticed and considered in many electorates.

[sf.]

mail them by post.

NB.



I just came across the following article in this morning's Sunday Age, Re the Greens. Here's the online version:

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/its-time-the-greens-became-real-politicians-20100220-omvr.html

[osiris]

its not where the greens are now that really matters, its where they might be in a decade that should concern us as macedonians. will they eventually become real politicians as the age implies they need to become or kurvis as sf reckons they alreday are only time will tell. but given the actions of the german greens and their support for macedonia i think we should all take them more seriosuly and support them at every oppourtunity.
the alp is now definitively and oppourtunistic party interested only in power, the greens still are mainly indealistic and principle driven, not only on enviromental issues but even very unpopular ones like refugees and the australian commitment to the us wars.

[sf.]

its not where the greens are now that really matters, its where they might be in a decade that should concern us as macedonians. will they eventually become real politicians as the age implies they need to become or kurvis as sf reckons they alreday are only time will tell. but given the actions of the german greens and their support for macedonia i think we should all take them more seriosuly and support them at every oppourtunity.
the alp is now definitively and oppourtunistic party interested only in power, the greens still are mainly indealistic and principle driven, not only on enviromental issues but even very unpopular ones like refugees and the australian commitment to the us wars.

As things stand, the Greens are like the contestants in beauty pageants: "I would like to ensure peace in the world and eliminate poverty."

Unless something dramatically happens, I don't see the Greens becoming a major paty in the next decade. But let's indulge the thought they might. Then, they would behave in much the same way that the ALP and Libs do today. This is part of the meaning of my 'kurvi' reference. So regardless of who the major parties are, our behaviour should also be consistent, in lobbying those parties. We shouldn't worry about the Greens now - we can't push them into power nor can they oblige us concretly.

[Rogi]

Well, if the Greens were to hold the balance of power, or were to become a serious contender in the next decades, then it is definitely advantageous to be involved with the Greens now, while it is still possible.

Think of it as the Labor Party before the massive branch stacking by the Greeks. If we got in before them, things would be considerably different.

[sf.]

Here's what i wrote about this on Makilnk at the last election:

1. Everyone has the right to exercise their votes however they see fit. But, we’re talking about expectations and outcomes here.

2. If you only voted for the Greens as a protest vote, then note the following. The Greens received roughly 800,000 votes for about 7% total (I'm not sure on the accuracy of these figures, but not important to the point I'm making). If every Macedonian in Australia voted for the Greens, then that would be about 10% of their votes, or 0.7-1.0% of national election results. So how much influence will the Macedonian vote have in Green policies? None unless your reasoning for support isn't further communicated and promoted to the party. Also, in electorates where Labor or Liberal are elected as representatives, your vote as a protest is wasted unless you additionally communicate your reasoning with the sitting member and opposition candidate.

3. The balance of power in the Senate argument is weak. If anyone thinks that The Greens will have the ability to promote the Macedonian cause and deliver results through balance of power, they have marbles in their head. Yes, BOP works, but it's a process that cannot be abused and once 'goodwill' disappears, it breaks down as a workable solution. This means the Greens can only play this card so often and need to pick their battles carefully (I've gone nuts on the metaphors Laughing ). They will prioritise the importance of Greens policies. The question is: where does the Macedonian issue stand in the Green policy pecking order, and which other issue would be sacrificed for it?

Visit the official Green Party website, and see for yourself.

http://greens.org.au/Election/

Here’s a list of their policy categories and relevant priorities:

Quote:
• A: Environment
• B: Agriculture & Natural Resources
• C: Climate Change and Energy
• D: Care for People
• E: Human Rights & Democracy
• F: Media, Arts & Science
• G: Sustainable Economy


Here’s their policy on “Peace, Security and International Relations:”

Quote:
The Greens want an independent Australia with a constructive relationship with the rest of the world. Following George Bush has made Australia less safe and a target for terrorism. The military ‘war on terror’ is not working, and by participating we are contributing to the growing anger towards the West across the Middle East and the Islamic world.

Only by addressing the causes of terrorism, not just the symptoms, can we hope to live in a safer world. The first step is to create just relationships with other countries and work towards ending global poverty.

The Greens will:
• Immediately withdraw Australian troops from Iraq and Afghanistan
• Provide significant aid for Iraqi national reconstruction
• Support a real peace process for Israel and Palestine
• Require approval by Parliament of any overseas military deployment
• Reduce defence spending while maintaining an adequate defence force
• Support an independent foreign policy that opposes pre-emptive strikes
• Increase our aid budget to at least 0.7% of GDP by 2010 and target aid to eliminating poverty.


Iraq

The illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq is a disaster built on a lie and Australia's ongoing military involvement is making it worse. Thousands die and many more are wounded every month. The majority of Iraqis want the coalition troops to leave but John Howard has tied Australia’s decision to the views of the White House. The Greens have led the campaign for peace in Iraq. We would bring the troops home.


Obviously, the recognition of Macedonia under its rightful name is not a major issue, and in this respect, The Greens are no different from the major parties in Australia. However, the difference lies in their inability to do anything about it unless the major parties decide to play.

4. Which brings us to the question:
Nikolce wrote:
If not them then what? Do you believe its better to vote for Labor or Liberal that sides with the Greeks, and says your country is to be called FYROM?


The protest vote is antagonistic and puts us on a bad foot immediately. My view is that it is important to support the major parties, communicate that support and then promote our requirements. This is after all how representative democracy works. And beyond the actions of individuals, we need to better organize ourselves as a community. This has proven easier said than done and in my belief is the main impediment to the successful promotion and achievement of our views and goals.

Little has changed since then, balance of power can only go so far, and we're not gonna a be a high priority.

[Rogi]

You're viewing the Macedonian community as a voter bloc, rather than considering the potential of becoming involved with a party like the Greens.

Consider the overall 'Greek vote' and that it is quite insignificant, however, consider that the Greeks at one stage made up 10% of the Labor Party membership and you quickly see how they became influential.

Look for the smallest denominator (within the party), rather than the largest (as a voter bloc).

[osiris]

we will have to agree to disagree sf supporting the major parties is simply continuing the status quo and as such serves no purpose, because both major parties have been captured by the greeks.

i wouldnt be that dissimissive of the effectivness of a protest vote or of the goals and effectivness of the greens.

[sf.]

Hope I'm wrong mate.

[osiris]

no one can predict the future of the results of ones actions sf as you most probably know history is littered with exampless of the unintended consequences of ones actins being the dominant ones.

i think ultimately all we can do as patriots is to support and be active, the future will always remain uncertain and unpredictable.

ps a belated welcome to the forum and thank you for your intersting posts.

[sf.]

Thanks mate. Glad to be able to express my opinions.

[Rogi]

It is a little depressing to see that with the absence of Greeks to argue with (which is the biggest positive of this forum), we seem to be turning on each other.

There's an uninspiring and awful amount of Macedonian on Macedonian aggression going on, when all the intellect of this forum (and this forum has it in bucket loads) should be going into threads like this.

These are the types of threads that I am hoping to see more of here. Progressive and useful discussion with ideas.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It will pass Rogi, these things will receive less attention with time because the obvious will become the norm, I think all of the 'commotion' has been healthy, it needed to be said and people needed to clarify their positions. Don't be depressed, lol....