Australian position on Macedonia

[Makedonska_Kafana]

As for St. George, that church was built by Macedonians in the early days, who came over with Ottoman passports, and in the days after the Balkan Wars, when Macedonia had been wiped from the map. They had a Bulgarian priest who they only barely could understand, but they could understand him more than a Greek. Some believed the lies that the priest told them, but most didn't. They knew exactly what they were, and they were always proud Macedonians, better than you, anyway, MakKafana. They built a community, a support system, and took care of their families, passed on their traditions, and a faraway and unfamiliar country. You only know how to throw stones at your ancestors.

I'm amazed at the attention the MPO gets on this site, for such a non-entity and a spent force. The MPO is a shadow from the past, a relic, but it's advantageous to some people to keep that fear alive, I guess.

When, was the last time you were inside that church? Next, time you do when you get to the top of the stairs look to to your left and you will see the names of those people (pioneers) you so kindly speak of here - builders

Ask, John Bitove if you know him WELL.

[Vangelovski]

Why not answer the question, Vangelovski?

You've stated they aren't "paid stooges", so what is the ulterior motive of the board and of John Bitove?

What is your opinion of the UMD members?

Why can't you cough up an answer, all of a sudden?

Do you suffer from a mental deficiency? Or are you uninformed about the topics you want to discuss? A simple google search or even a wikipedia search should be enough for you to establish what a vassal is.

The UMD members I know personally are generally politically unaware - much like yourself.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Do you suffer from a mental deficiency?

YES, or he would never have made those last comments - totally clueless, my family came to Toronto in nineteen hundred and eight - dedo. Folks, as you can clearly see that the UMD spokesperson(s) are just as lost as the entire organization - wild guesses, will say anything regardless of the truth.

If, you put your trust (money) in these clowns tesko na vas!

[makedonche]

Ok, Makedonche - please educate me about how the title of the organization is misrepresented, either here, or in the other thread, as you wish.

rujnovino
As per your request to be educated, here's your first lesson, definitions:-

UNITED -
–adjective
1. made into or caused to act as a single entity: a united front.
2. formed or produced by the uniting of things or persons: a united effort.
3. agreed; in harmony.

MACEDONIAN-
— adj
1. of or relating to Macedonia, its inhabitants, or any of their languages or dialects

— n
2. a native or inhabitant of Macedonia
3. the language of the Republic of Macedonia, belonging to the south Slavonic branch of the Indo-European family
4. an extinct language spoken in ancient Macedonia

DIASPORA-
a dispersion or spreading, as of people originally belonging to one nation or having a common culture

Have a close read of the definitions and let me know if you need me to point out where the elephant in the room is hiding!
Source: World Dictionary

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Why can't you cough up an answer, all of a sudden?

You, have unwisely opened another can of worms and now are left holding your own pole. Will, the UMD bail you out or let you sink even deeper? You, have no clue about St. George and or the Bitove family history, you think you know me plus detest most Australian Macedonians .. wow, you're not the first person to pull this smear all Macedonian Australians with the same brush routine.

Would, you say you're not like most UMD members and very different .. maybe even a bit odd? Is, it not true that Jim Daikos knows who you are with some of these alias names? Why, would you continue? Why, would they even let you? Do, you see any concern from the UMD board? You, seem to know everything about the UMD (insider info) so maybe you can let the rest of the world know what makes these professionals/experts tick?

Eveready

[rujnovino]

YES, or he would never have made those last comments - totally clueless, my family came to Toronto in nineteen hundred and eight - dedo. Folks, as you can clearly see that the UMD spokesperson(s) are just as lost as the entire organization - wild guesses, will say anything regardless of the truth.

If, you put your trust (money) in these clowns tesko na vas!

Ok, MakKaf,
I asked Vangelovski what his problem with Bitove was, and he brushed it off as usual. What is your problem with him? I mean, if your own folks are from St. George, then how can you fault Bitove for the fact that his family helped to build that church, as well? Why do you have spread bullshit about the man? I think he's a great leader and philanthropist, and as Macedonian as anyone.

[rujnovino]

rujnovino
As per your request to be educated, here's your first lesson, definitions:-

UNITED -
–adjective
1. made into or caused to act as a single entity: a united front.
2. formed or produced by the uniting of things or persons: a united effort.
3. agreed; in harmony.

MACEDONIAN-
— adj
1. of or relating to Macedonia, its inhabitants, or any of their languages or dialects

— n
2. a native or inhabitant of Macedonia
3. the language of the Republic of Macedonia, belonging to the south Slavonic branch of the Indo-European family
4. an extinct language spoken in ancient Macedonia

DIASPORA-
a dispersion or spreading, as of people originally belonging to one nation or having a common culture

Have a close read of the definitions and let me know if you need me to point out where the elephant in the room is hiding!
Source: World Dictionary

Wow, this lesson is just as fascinating as I imagined it to be. Where is the elephant?

[rujnovino]

Do you suffer from a mental deficiency? Or are you uninformed about the topics you want to discuss? A simple google search or even a wikipedia search should be enough for you to establish what a vassal is.

The UMD members I know personally are generally politically unaware - much like yourself.

No, Vangelovski, I do know what a vassal is, that wasn't the question. But your scurrying is very telling. You can't answer simple questions that don't suit you, a false debate. You are a polemicist, and you can't handle an honest discussion. What are YOU afraid of? Doesn't fit the narrow mindset, so you just brush it off - why can't you answer?

[Vangelovski]

Ok, MakKaf,
I asked Vangelovski what his problem with Bitove was, and he brushed it off as usual. What is your problem with him? I mean, if your own folks are from St. George, then how can you fault Bitove for the fact that his family helped to build that church, as well? Why do you have spread bullshit about the man? I think he's a great leader and philanthropist, and as Macedonian as anyone.

You should reread my response. You should also do some basic reading on this forum so that you're not going over the same old topics that have been done to death. But I know that you won't to any of that and its probably a timely reminder - for the public record:

The New York Times
3 July 1992

Until recently, the United States and most Governments of the European Community accepted not only the Republic of Macedonia's credentials as a newly independent nation but also its chosen designation.

What changed , European diplomats and Administration officials said, was a perception that President Gligorov was willing to make some sort of compromise on the name issue. This perception was apparently created by remarks made in the spring by Macedonian leaders to European officials and by an American lobbyist.

"There were indications that there was some flexibility there," a senior State Department official said. 'A Deal to Be Made'

According to State Department officials and Macedonian representatives here, the idea of Skopje's flexibility was spread last month by Robert C. McFarlane, the former national security adviser, who was hired several months ago as a lobbyist by Macedonians.

An Administration official said that after President Gligorov's visit to Washington in mid-May, Mr. McFarlane was quoted by State Department officials as saying: " There's a deal to be made. Gligorov sees a need for it."

In a telephone interview, Mr. McFarlane acknowledged speaking to State Department officials about Macedonia. He said he was being paid "a modest sum" by John Bitove, whom he described as a Toronto businessman of Macedonian origin. In fact, Mr. Bitove is president of the Canadian Macedonian Society, which is closely linked to President Gligorov.

In the category of "lobbyists," the society's May 25 financial summary lists disbursements of $39,021.04 to McFarlane Associates, Mr. McFarlane's Washington-based company. A total of $73,717.61 is listed as "payable" to the firm.


http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/04/wo...macedonia.html

According to this New York Times article, Bitove was paying McFarlane who put out the idea that Macedonia was willing to compromise on the name. Prior to that, the article states, the US and the then EC was ready to accept Macedonia's name. Indeed it seems Bitove was donating to the "cause", but what "cause" exactly?

[Vangelovski]

No, Vangelovski, I do know what a vassal is, that wasn't the question. But your scurrying is very telling. You can't answer simple questions that don't suit you, a false debate. You are a polemicist, and you can't handle an honest discussion. What are YOU afraid of? Doesn't fit the narrow mindset, so you just brush it off - why can't you answer?

If you know what a vassal is, then how is it that you do not understand my answer? You asked me what I think of the UMD Board Members and I provided you with an answer - I think they believe in a vassal state.

[rujnovino]

... you think you know me plus detest most Australian Macedonians .. wow, you're not the first person to pull this smear all Macedonian Australians with the same brush routine.

MakKaf, you are a liar and a weasel. I said no such thing about Macedonian Australians, and you know it... you're really getting desperate, it seems.

On the other hand, Risto The "Great" made a sneaky and questionable claim about the Australian Macedonian community's obvious "leading role" in human rights, then he refused to back it up.

Yet another unfounded overstatement by MTO Incorporated. And there's always a sucker like the MakKafana who can't think for himself, and just follows the leader.

[Risto the Great]

Rujnovino, please advise which Diaspora community has led the way for Macedonian Human Rights over the last 50 years.

[rujnovino]

You should reread my response. You should also do some basic reading on this forum so that you're not going over the same old topics that have been done to death. But I know that you won't to any of that and its probably a timely reminder - for the public record:

Interesting, so instead of answering a question, you simply ask another - "what cause was Bitove fighting for?"

And that's my basic question for you; if Bitove is not fighting for the Macedonian cause, and he's not a paid stooge, then whose interest is he serving, in your view?

[Makedonska_Kafana]

You've missed about 20 other's and I want you to start with the St. George MPO Luben Dimitroff coments next ie Bitove "kid". Time, has no mercy which even applies to you punk .. "chop chop" there's a new sheriff in town - Gospodin Gospodin Ace

[rujnovino]

If you know what a vassal is, then how is it that you do not understand my answer? You asked me what I think of the UMD Board Members and I provided you with an answer - I think they believe in a vassal state.

Ah, and why is that, in your view? There must be a reason why. You've already stated that they aren't paid stooges, so why would they purposefully wish "vassal" status upon Macedonia? What do they have to gain from that?