Australian position on Macedonia

[Soldier of Macedon]

That is what concerns me. What kind of repercussions are we talking about? Loss of votes?

If anybody was reading or listening to the speech cited on the first post of this thread, not being aware of who Rann is supposed to have been racially discriminative against, how would they know that this matter concerns the Macedonians?

I am sick and tired of having our identity erased, covered-up, avoided, etc by others speaking on our behalf, it's like if Simpkins dared to even utter the noun 'Macedonian' it would be the beginning of the end! Like I said before, not bad speech, but certainly lacking in this regard, which is very disappointing.

[osiris]

spot on som its a real concern when our so called friends do not mention our name while supposedly defending us.

[Prolet]

I think it was a great speech to be honest, he focused more on Mike Rann and he did not attack the Greek Community which means he didnt make enemies on the other side. Its smart politics, he focused on the racism by Mike Rann which is the main thing for our community.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yes, he focused on Rann's racism, against whom exactly? The 'no name' people? The 'defaced' nation? We don't deserve this.

In relation to 'ethnic communities' as per the title of Simpkins' speech, I see two descriptions -1) Macedonian issue, and 2) Hellenic Community. Forgive my ignorance, I was under the assumption that the Macedonian community were at the centre of this issue, yet, the Macedonians, as a people, are nowhere mentioned.

So again, I ask, as an ignorant commoner, who exactly was Rann being racist against according to Simpkins' speech? Oh that's right, us, the nobodies.

[Prolet]

SOM, He should have mentioned our name a bit more yes i agree, he should have mentioned Macedonian Community,Macedonian People alot more. I guess he was standing his ground, he comes from Western Australia and they have recognized our name i dont see why he was walking on Egg Shells.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet, when you say that he should have mentioned it "more", you are implying that he nevertheless mentioned it.

But, he didn't - mention it, at all.

That's the problem. I can't see why Simpkins should walk on egg shells either, but it seems that he did.

[Prolet]

SOM, He mentioned Skopje once and the Macedonian issue, i dont think thats good enough i agree.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yet he doesn't mention the Macedonians, Macedonian people or Macedonian community. Anybody would think that he is speaking on behalf of people that don't even exist.

[Prolet]

Thats true SOM

Perhaps we could recommend the AMHRC to write his speech next time? Macedonia will formally put in a Protest via our Embassy in Canberra, maybe Simpkins can push on from there??

[Orovnichanec]

Mr Luke Simpkins MP speech to parliament - May 27 2008

Tuesday, 27 May 2008 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 3390 CHAMBER
SPEECH

Date Tuesday, 27 May 2008 Source House
Page 3390
Questioner Responder
Speaker Simpkins, Luke, MP Question No.
Mr SIMPKINS (Cowan) (9.50 pm)—

Good evening or good day, perhaps, and ‘dobro den’ in the
Macedonian language. Tonight I rise to speak of
the main interest of the people of Macedonian
heritage who live in my electorate of Cowan. This
is even more important because of my role as the
deputy chair of the Australia-Macedonia parliamentary
friendship group. Of course, this group is not
called quite that. I believe it is officially called the
Australia-Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
parliamentary friendship group. Those who originally
come from the Republic of Macedonia, while they
consider themselves Macedonians, in this country are
officially referred to as Slav Macedonians. I can
assure you that Macedonians have a great deal of
trouble accepting ‘FYROM’ and ‘Slav Macedonians’
as descriptors of their homelands and themselves. In
my involvement with the Macedonian community in
Cowan and in the northern suburbs of Perth they regard
these terms as offensive and insulting.
Being born in Australia, with several generations
between me and family links to England and Ireland,
I cannot truly appreciate their feelings on these points.
Perhaps I can spend a short time bringing these terms
that apply to Macedonians into something the rest
of us can truly appreciate. To begin, I and no doubt
everyone else in this place takes great pride in being
Australian, as do my Macedonian friends. This is the
Commonwealth of Australia and we can also take pride
in that name. Australia is not called the ‘Former British
Colony of Australia’ or the ‘Former British Colonies
Constituting the Federation of Australia’. Why is this
so? It is because the founding fathers of this nation
enshrined the name Australia and the Commonwealth
of Australia as the name of our country. As was their
right, Australians made that decision—no-one else.
We stand up for our right to make this most
fundamental of decisions, and we expect the rest of the
world to call this country Australia. I know that I would
be insulted and outraged if we were called the ‘Former
British Colony of Australia’ or the ‘Former British
Colonies Constituting the Federation of Australia’.
Perhaps then we can begin to understand that somehow
the use of FYROM is insulting and that Macedonians
have a very big problem with it. But I will come back
to that before the end of my speech.
The other point I wish to raise on this occasion
is the description of Australians who originated, or
whose family originated, in Macedonia. Australia
officially refers to those who come from the territory
of the Republic of Macedonia as Slav Macedonians. I
struggle to think of another ethnic group in Australia
where we define them by race. I know that noone
officially calls me an Anglo-Saxon Australian
or an Australian of Anglo-Saxon British heritage. In
a recent gathering of Macedonians in my office, I
was speaking to Mr Slobodan Binevski, an artist and
historian, who not only reiterated the point about the
insulting term Slav Macedonian but also made it clear
to me that Macedonians are not Slavic but are literally
Macedonians and are descendants of the same race
and people that have been resident in that area of the
Balkan peninsula for more than 2,500 years. I will
make Slobodan’s point here—that while there were
city states further south of Macedonia, it was in fact
a nation of size and significance some 300 to 400
years before Christ. Yet we know that Alexander the
Great was Macedonian and that he was from this part
of the Balkans. The point I make is that they are the
descendants of ancient Macedonians and they are not
just descendants of later movements of Slavic people
through the Balkans. Therefore not only is a racial
descriptor of them insulting on racist grounds, it is not
even an accurate racial description.
So, in these points I have made today, it is important
that we as Australians of many heritages consider this
issue and how we would feel if the same terminology
and race description were used on us all. I know
that I would not like it at all. I know that I would
be insulted and outraged, and that is indeed their
feeling on the matter. These are the points of view
of well-regarded members of the Perth Macedonian
community: Mr Zoran Coseski, the honorary consul;
Mr Robert Miloseski, President of the Macedonian
Business Association; Mr Vic Radas, the former
president of the community; and Mr Jim Bivoltsis,
current president of the community. The time has
come for Australia to show respect to the Macedonians
in this country and to the Republic of Macedonia. I
myself call upon the government to follow the lead
of other countries in bilateral relations and refer to
Macedonia as the Republic of Macedonia. I also call
upon the government to take steps to remove all
official references in the future to Slav Macedonians
and simply call them Macedonians, as they wish to be
called.

Tuesday, 27 May 2008 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 3391
CHAMBER

This was sent to us by Mr. Zoran Coceski

[sf.]

I can't see why Simpkins should walk on egg shells either, but it seems that he did.

He's a politician mate. His relationship with the Macedonians might be genuine, but he is definitely gaining from it and self-preservation is important. And he's doing it more cautiously than Rann.

[Rogi]

I don't know if too much is being read into this speech.

Luke Simpkins MP has been very vocal over the years on matters most important to the Macedonian community in Australia and he has had no problem mentioning the Macedonian people in Parliament. Read through his speeches on Hansard and you might have a different view on where he sits on Macedonian matters.

If I were to look at his speech to work out why it is as it is, I'd say it were either non intentional, or written in such a way to prove the point he is making about being neutral and not taking sides, otherwise his opponents would argue that his speech is no different to Rann's.


Of all the Federal politicians we as a community have relations with, Simpkins is among the most supportive and vocal and among the most genuine, as far as politicians go.

[Soldier of Macedon]

............or written in such a way to prove the point he is making about being neutral and not taking sides, otherwise his opponents would argue that his speech is no different to Rann's.

I don't agree with that. It is not subjective to call people by the name they identify with, one is not taking sides if he is to merely make mention of the Macedonian people.

I believe in this instance, if ever any, there should have been some reference made to the Macedonian people and community. Trying to be 'neutral' in the manner suggested above is to be biased, because the Macedonian people (to whom the initial racism was directed to) miss out for the sake of the sensibilites of Greek racists.

[Rogi]

Well, what is it we are arguing here.

Is it that he intentionally avoided naming the Macedonian community and people, thereby we conclude he is disrespecting the Macedonian identity?

From what I read initially in this thread, that was the gist of the argument, or am I mistaken?

If that is the argument, then my post and its' purpose was to show the unlikelihood of such 'intent', given his long standing record as being quite vocal on Macedonian matters.

So, without the 'intent' being there, and thus without jumping to that conclusion, we have to look at his speech again.

Then it becomes a matter of what argument he is making, and what angle he is taking. That's where it begins to look like he is trying to make somewhat general statements about a politician or Premier creating and promoting tensions between ethnic communities.

Perhaps in this way it can be turned into a bigger issue, as opposed to it becoming a Greeks vs Macedonians one, where unfortunately the politicians always back out because of Greek numbers and influence.

If it becomes a legal issue (i.e. if AMHRC can proceed legally, for which we will have to wait and see), then I'm certain he will again bring this up in Parliament, though that time with legal ammunition.

Yes sure, I know that it is not the speech that you and I would have given, not by a long shot, though I don't think it there was an anti-Macedonian undertone in there as is being suggested here.

[Soldier of Macedon]

He wasn't intentionally trying to disrespect Macedonians, and I certainly don't consider him to be anti-Macedonian, come on Rogi.....

But he does appear to walk on egg shells. Rann was racist against Macedonians. Where exactly is that mentioned in Simpkins' speech? Doesn't the topic relate to the Macedonian people?