Slavic Migration

[TerraNova]

We do have evidence that Macedonians didn't speak Greek as their native language but a language or languages belonging to the same group as Illyrian and Thracian.

I will just pass by the first (there are hundreds of quotes confirming the exact opposite)..
but let's examine your second, surprisingly certain statement...
any CITATION please..which CONFIRMS this assumption?

And something else..was Illyrian similar to Thracian? how r you so sure?
Any CITATION again ?
Or just anything but Greek ,is enough..?

Nothing direct, only a complex academic study would be able to explain that, reason why is because we have no written evidence of the Macedonian language.

Without a written example of the ancient Macedonian we cannot know what language they spoke.

There are plenty of place names, person's names ,as well as words provided by Hesychius .

(not to mention Pella's katadesmos ,or the 6000 inscriptions in attic or Koene Greek)

[Delodephius]

1. Single words don't show what language is in question, we'll need examples from every grammatical area, from phonetics through morphology and syntax to pragmatics;
2. There was already a discussion about the Greek inscriptions found in Macedonia and I decided to treat them as texts written by people educated in the Greek language, i.e. that they were not written in the native language of Macedon.

As for Thracian and Illyrian, I find territorial, genetic and cultural continuity to be quite enough in establishing that the inhabitants of those lands were speakers of a Proto-Slavic language.

[TerraNova]

1. Single words don't show what language is in question, we'll need examples from every grammatical area, from phonetics through morphology and syntax to pragmatics;

Yes we need all these.
But till then we can examine what we have.

2. There was already a discussion about the Greek inscriptions found in Macedonia and I decided to treat them as texts written by people educated in the Greek language, i.e. that they were not written in the native language of Macedon.

Is that the same for 500 BC and 500 AD?
Have you examined the possibility that koine Greek was the only spoken and written language by Macedonians in 500 AD?
(check bibliography)

As for Thracian and Illyrian, I find territorial, genetic and cultural contiguity to be quite enough in establishing that the inhabitants of those lands were speakers of a Proto-Slavic language.

What's "territorial continuity" ??
Turks do not speak Hittite or Greek...Egyptians speak Arabic...and so on.
Moreover the term "territorial continuity" by itself is invalid.

Genetics are not yet ready to give us answers on such questions.They can easily be manipulated towards the desired direction.

And cultural...ok..ancient cultures are dead-of course elements passed to the next generations ,but 20th century's cultures have nothing to do with those of 500 BC.

In any case,i cannot really understand your try to reach a conclusion about linguistics, without using a single evidence ,or a single argument based on language.(!)
This is not the right way for sure

[makedonin]

Check twice the quotes above.

Those quotes you give, one thing is for sure, the Word Nation was certainly not used in the original text. I don't have the Original text, but this so called Translation you use is most likely inaccurate cause the word Nation did not existed before the 18th century.

What is meant is certainly not what you mean by Ethnicity or Nation. Some of the quotes are laughable:

When the Eruli, being defeated by the Lombards in the above mentioned battle, migrated from their anscenstral homes, some of them, as has been told by me above, made their home in the country of Illyricum, but the rest were averse to crossing the Ister river, but settled at the very extremity of the word; at any rate, these men, led by many of the royal blood, transvered all the nations of the Slclaveni one after the other, and after next crossing a large tract of barren country, they came to the Varni, as they are called. After these they passed by the nations of the Dani, without suffering violence at the hands of the barbarians there. Coming thence to the ocean, they took to the sea, and putting in at Thule, remained there on the island.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ommk1NrznTkC&pg=PA196&dq=PROCOPIUS++traversed+all+the+nations+of+the+Sclaveni+one+after+the+other&hl=de#PPA196,M1

According to this quote if it is to be taken serious, there must be no Slavic Nation in Europe since these royal blood men transvered all the nations of Sclaveni to Thule :-)

According to the footnotes of the Author:

Varni or Varini, a tribe living on the coast near the mout of the Rhine.

Dani, a group of tribes inhabiting the Danish Penisula.

195 Probably Iceland or the northern portion of the Scandinavian penisula, which was the regarded as an Island and called "Scanza". The name of Thule was familiar from earlier times. It was described by the navigator Pytheas in the age of Alexander the Great, and he claimed to have visited the Island. It was variously placed, but always considered the northernmost land in the world- "ultima Thule".

Crossing Ister= Danube and settling in Illiricum (Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia), but not all, while the passed to Varni..... They did not settled there, but crossed the Ocean and went to Thule Probably Iceland...... Slavic Iceland, wow you proved the Migration..........


Show me the THULE SLAVS man

[makedonin]

Also you didn't answer me -Who were the Slavs /Sclavenes of the Sclaveniai?
Were they Macedonians? (since you believe Macedonians were slavic speaking)

You should take time readin this.

That no Slavic ethnicity existed in the eyes of any sixth- or seventh-century Byzantine author, which could be compared to the modern concept of ethnicity, is shown by Pseudo-Caesarius’ usage of the term “Sclavenes”. To him, the opposite of “Sclavenes” is „RipianoŰ, which was not an ethnie, but a name for the inhabitants of the Roman province of Dacia Ripensis.The contrast is that between a group living north and another living south of the Danube frontier, to which Pseudo- Caesarius referred by the biblical name Physon. His focus was on the specific location, within one and the same climate, of groups supposedly different in customs and religious life. The same is true for the author of
the Strategikon.
[/B]

Source:

The Making of the Slavs, Curta page 347, 348

In other words, Sclavene is a term which was used by the Byzantines to describe potencial political forms who could bring Byzantine Empire in danger, and ethnically they have been a mixture of different groups of people.

Can you provide me a single EVIDENCE, QUOTE , SOURCE that Macedonians were Slavic speaking ?

can you provide that they did not?????????

The Byzantine Emperor Michael III said to Cyrilos and Methodious:

you are all Thessalonians and all Thessalonians speak pure Slavic

http://books.google.com/books?id=YIAYMNOOe0YC&pg=RA3-PA120&dq=whole+of+thessalonians+speak+slavonic&hl=de

And Nicephori Gregorae Вуzantia in his "Hiѕtоriae":

'έως και αυτήν ή της τν Μακεδόνων προκάηται γης έχειρώσατο μεγαλόπολιν την θεσσαλονίκην'

Translated:
' .... at last he conquered the Capital City Tessaloniki, who is the first in the land of the Macedonians....'

Taken from:
Nicephori Gregorae Вуzantia hiѕtоria. I-еd. L. Ѕсhореnus, 1829, XI, 169

Well, 2+2 = 2,3 or maybe 5,5, what would you say Terriaky

[TerraNova]

can you provide that they did not?????????

Is this a serious argument?

What do Philippos,Alexandros,Peukesstas,Peukolaos,Drykalos ,Eidomene,Aigai,Argos,Philotas,Phila,Verenica,Thes salonica,Archelaos mean ?
Can you explain them with any Slavic root?

Why not any Dedo Goran and Stoiko...?

Slavic speaking ancient Macedonians is your wishful thought,but outside this forum ,it's just a Joke...

The Byzantine Emperor Michael III said to Cyrilos and Methodious:

Can you provide the original source?
Is it a czech fairy tail that was written some centuries after?..
Hm...

And Nicephori Gregorae Вуzantia in his "Hiѕtоriae":

Of course there were Macedonians ,in the Geographical sense,and they were Romei .
(You can find their descendants even now-they are the native Greeks of Macedonia)

Read below..
[Patrologia Graecae, vol.116]

"...the leader of the Avars... regarding the metropolis of the Thessalonians as the richest of all cities in the direction of Thrace and of all Illyricum,... mustered all who shared the faith and savage race of the Sclaveni... and along with other barbarians... ordered the expedition against the heavenly-guarded city of Thessaloniki... [13.109].

..and the barbarians arrived... and the number of besiegers was far greater not only of all the Macedonians but also of the Thessalians and Achaians ** (were one to gather them all as a heap in Thessaloniki)... [13.116]


Yet, the few defenders, with the help of God, came out of the city-gate... [14.135]
But... who could carry such a level of devastation? Clearly the one who instilled this bravery into the Macedonians, for nothing can resist the Divine... [14.136]

Afterwards the citizens dispatched the cavalry that confirmed the departure of the terrified enemies who continued to flee during the night to increase their distance, with no concern for their items, animals and slaves... And I am told that... the barbarians blinded by a light... had seen a vision of our most glorious... St.Dimitrios leading the troops... " [14.148]

Macedonians-Slavs :1-0

Guess what..Macedonians are "Romans" as Achaians and Thessalians (**)
Greek speaking Romei from Thessaloniki, who defeat the barbarian Slavs (Sclaveni) !!

[makedonin]

Can you provide the original source?

Is it a czech fairy tail that was written some centuries after?..
Hm...

Fof the original source go ask the Author of the book on the link I posted with the quote.

As for the so called czech fairy tail, it is nothing in compare with the Byazantine fary tails.........


Go look for the Slavic nations on the Island of Thule = Iceland

As for the names, what is with the Iordanes name, or Yannis, I can see the Greekness of the names from far away

I would like to play with you cat and mouse, but you are getting borring.........

[makedonin]

Guess what..Macedonians are "Romans" as Achaians and Thessalians (**)
Greek speaking Romei from Thessaloniki, who defeat the barbarian Slavs (Sclaveni) !!

Not neccesserally......... maybe the Military and the Royals ......... but

Why do you think that there is today Rumenia ? Are they Greek speaking too ???

What about the aRumeni ??? Are they Greek speaking too ??


I know I know, the ROMA (Plural ROMI) are deffinitivly GREEK SPEAKING and PURE HELLENES no doubt about it........

[TerraNova]

Not neccesserally......... maybe the Military and the Royals ......... but

Why do you think that there is today Rumenia ? Are they Greek speaking too ???

What about the aRumeni ??? Are they Greek speaking too ??


I know I know, the ROMA (Plural ROMI) are deffinitivly GREEK SPEAKING and PURE HELLENES no doubt about it........

Do you consider the above ..an answer?

It's CLEAR in the text.

"Romei" (Greek speaking Orthodox people)=Thessalians Macedonians Achaeans -against "Sclavenes" (Slavic speaking Pagan people)

You just block reading it....admit it

Now tell me this was a "civil war"...

[makedonin]

Do you consider the above ..an answer?

Can you disprove it. Why those people also name them self as ROMA, ROMI, ROMANIANS, ETC. if they are not a Greek Speakers as you would like them to be ??? A Tip: maybe cause of the Romaioi were not just Greek Speakers ???

"Romei" (Greek speaking Orthodox people)=Thessalians Macedonians Achaeans -against "Sclavenes" (Slavic speaking Pagan people)[/B]

You just block reading it....admit it

Now tell me this was a "civil war"...

If I get to bother going through the whole of original text you so nicely sliced in parts, I would surely find your "Transfered all of the nation of Sclavene to where ??? Thule = Iceland"

Should I do that? NO ! Why, cause I would just waste my time, and you will throw more crap around and make me waste more of my time.

as for your

"Romei" (Greek speaking Orthodox people)

Is that a Joke ?

Romei were surely Patriarchist Orthodox, but certainly not just native "Greeks"

By the way, they called the language Romeica, not Greek as you would put it, and it was official language, fore many maybe not native.

[TerraNova]

Is that a Joke ?

Romei were surely Patriarchist Orthodox, but certainly not just native "Greeks"

By the way, they called the language Romeica, not Greek as you would put it, and it was official language, fore many maybe not native.

So....Romei were some aliens ,who were living in Greece and Asia Minor, they were Greek-Orthodox,belonging to the Patriarchate of Constantinople ,and they were speaking Romeika (aka modern Greek).

Well ...these people must be Mexicans!!!

PS-"Romeika" was not "official language". It was people's language,actually koene Greek,slightly evoluted during medieval times.

In fact the term "Romeika" for our language is still used in some phrases-Greeks say "mila Romeika" (mila=speak) ,meaning "speak in a clear/simple/understandable way".

Officially and by scholars more ancient-like forms of Greek were used.

[TrueMacedonian]

So....Romei were some aliens ,who were living in Greece and Asia Minor, they were Greek-Orthodox,belonging to the Patriarchate of Constantinople ,and they were speaking Romeika (aka modern Greek).

Well ...these people must be Mexicans!!!

PS-"Romeika" was not "official language". It was people's language,actually koene Greek,slightly evoluted during medieval times.

In fact the term "Romeika" for our language is still used in some phrases-Greeks say "mila Romeika" (mila=speak) ,meaning "speak in a clear/simple/understandable way".

Officially and by scholars more ancient-like forms of Greek were used.

Please read page 307 and 311 if you want to.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=813

Apparently all christians or rayah were called "greeks". Your nation and identity is so fake that Pamela Andersons titskis look more real than you people.

[Risto the Great]

Apparently all christians or rayah were called "greeks". Your nation and identity is so fake that Pamela Andersons titskis look more real than you people.

Good comparison.
The idea is good, but once you get close .... something smells fishy.

[TerraNova]

Please read page 307 and 311 if you want to.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=813

Apparently all christians or rayah were called "greeks". Your nation and identity is so fake that Pamela Andersons titskis look more real than you people.

Rum miliet is an Ottoman story.

This has little to do with how Greek speaking Orthodox identified themselves.
In fact your passage confirms that "they themselves (people of the Ottoman empire) knew there were differences" .




Moreover your quote confirms-of course-Slavic migration ,which is actually this thread about
.
"another folk-stock (the Slavs) which is Not even Approximately Indigenous ,but within historic times has come from Afar(!)"

"It is called Slavic ,because it uses a Slavic tongue,a language which the Immigrant Nomads brought with them...


Nice finding... keep on working for the thread...

[TrueMacedonian]

Rum miliet is an Ottoman story.

This has little to do with how Greek speaking Orthodox identified themselves.
In fact your passage confirms that "they themselves (people of the Ottoman empire) knew there were differences" .




Moreover your quote confirms-of course-Slavic migration ,which is actually this thread about
.
"another folk-stock (the Slavs) which is Not even Approximately Indigenous ,but within historic times has come from Afar(!)"

"It is called Slavic ,because it uses a Slavic tongue,a language which the Immigrant Nomads brought with them...


Nice finding... keep on working for the thread...

My personal opinion is not against the supposed migrations or invasions. I think that more investigations need to be done to prove their worth and that more information that they did not occur at all or at a very small scale needs to be done also. But these are my opinions alone and I definitely do not speak for others.

If you notice the 'people that knew the differences' were the Slavs, Albanians, and Latins(Vlachs). Where does it say "greeks"????
Also there were 'Illyrians' mentioned in page 311 along with Servians,Macedonians, and Bulgarians. Did you happen to catch that as well I guess maybe Columbia University slipped up on that. Or was it that Tito in the time machine again