The Miladinov Brothers & Macedonian Literature - 19th Century

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  • Carlin
    replied
    Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
    I know this isn't 19th century but this is still the best thread for literature I believe.

    A primer written by Maro Teodorovic, born in Bansko. Published in Vienna in 1792. Would appreciate if anyone was able to translate or give greater information on the author and/or publication.

    According to Bulgarian Wikipedia entry on Marko Teodorovich, it says that he was born around 1760 in Bansko. He graduated from a Greek secular school. He dealt with cotton trade and went to Vienna.

    He opened commercial offices in Serres, Belgrade and Vienna.

    In 1792 he published a Church Slavic primer, which is what you posted. It was printed in the printing house of the Serbian Stefan Novakovic in Vienna (we see his name towards the end of the cover page). In the primer it is noted it is in Slavic (not Serbian or Bulgarian). On the cover page, it is also stated that the publisher is "a Bulgarian by birth, from Razlog".

    This book was actually ordered and paid for by the Serbs in Vienna to teach the Serbian children. He was known as a well educated man who knew Russian and Church Slavic, and so the Serbs ordered the textbook. Marko Teodorovich predicts the book will serve the Bulgarian schools as well.

    URL:

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    This was before the Exarchate was established, when the Macedonians and Orthodox Slavs of Bulgaria worked in unison under the umbrella term of 'Bulgarians' or 'Slavic Bulgarians' against the encroaching Romaic-speaking clergy of the Rum Millet:
    Are Patriarchate services still held in Romaic? If not, when did they stop utilising the language?

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    I know this isn't 19th century but this is still the best thread for literature I believe.

    A primer written by Maro Teodorovic, born in Bansko. Published in Vienna in 1792. Would appreciate if anyone was able to translate or give greater information on the author and/or publication.

    Leave a comment:


  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    The magazine, Loza

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    Kuzman Šapkarev:

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    Victor Friedman's chronology of the modern Macedonian language:

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  • Carlin
    replied



    Ра. Жинзифов - Москва, 1860 година.

    (Посвещавам Д. Миладинову)

    Как ет драго, как ет мило,
    Все що Българско народно
    А що Гърчко, пусто бьiло,
    Недостойно и противно

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    Folk song titled Свѣта Неделя и Св. Петка recorded by the Miladinovi from Kostursko:



    Заспала свѣta Неделя
    На свѣта Петка скуто'и;
    Свѣта Петка ьѫ будеше:
    "Стани ми свѣта Неделя,
    Сега сѣ соно не спіе.
    Рано ми рано станува,
    До два празници кажува,
    Свѣтни ми цѫркви отворатъ,
    Ангелъ отъ небо слегуватъ,
    Ристосово лице омиватъ,
    Закони по земя кажуватъ,
    За да вѣруватъ Рисяни."

    Кога Неделя разсони,
    Дробни ми сѫлдзи порони
    По свои свѣтни образи;
    Свѣта Неделя прикажи:
    "Сестро ми свѣта и Петко!
    Малко ми дремка фатила,
    Да чудимъ сонокъ сонвала!
    Стредъ море дѫрво израстло
    Израстло дѫрво високо,
    Вѫръ небо дѫрво крепеше,
    Да подъ дѫрво-то две лискя,
    Два листа били широки,

    Свата ˋѣ земя покриватъ.
    Тіе не биле два листа,
    Туку си били две книги,
    Що 'и пеетъ попови,

    Да завѣруватъ Рисяани,
    Да си дѫржѣтъ празници,
    Свѣтаа Петка, Неделя.

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    Originally posted by Karposh View Post
    Note the date: 1804-1848! And here am I thinking that Georgi Pulevski was the only confirmed Macedonian from this period. Looks like he wasn't alone and his brothers from the east shared the same national sentiments. Is there any other nation that has caused more damage to the Macedonian nation than what the Bulgarians have managed to do? I doubt it. One can only wonder how many millions of Macedonians have been eternally lost to Bulgarian propaganda.
    So so many, Sofia and Kustendil were once essentialy Macedonian cities. The Macedonian population of Bulgaria was massive.

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  • Karposh
    replied
    During the first half of the nineteenth century, natives from various parts of today's Bulgaria identified as “Macedonians.”...Because the boundaries of the “Macedonian” region were not clear until 1878 at least, natives from what is now considered “western Bulgaria” (Kyustendil, Dupnitsa, Plovdiv, etc. - my note) were called, and called themselves, “Macedonians": for instance, Hristaki Pavlovich (1804-1848) from the town of Dupnitsa.
    Note the date: 1804-1848! And here am I thinking that Georgi Pulevski was the only confirmed Macedonian from this period. Looks like he wasn't alone and his brothers from the east shared the same national sentiments. Is there any other nation that has caused more damage to the Macedonian nation than what the Bulgarians have managed to do? I doubt it. One can only wonder how many millions of Macedonians have been eternally lost to Bulgarian propaganda.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carlin
    replied
    The following comes from a modern Bulgarian historian -> Tchavdar Marinov.

    Some examples:

    - Dim. Miladinov tried to convince a Greek teacher that not only Philip, Alexander and the ancient Macedonians were Slavs but also Homer, Demosthenes and Strabo.

    - Petko Slaveykov referred to Alexander as a Bulgarian ancestor.

    - In the early 1840s, Rakovski was active in a Macedonian revolutionary society in Athens and used the pen name Georgi Makedon. During the first half of the nineteenth century, natives from various parts of today's Bulgaria identified as 'Macedonians'.





    Last edited by Carlin; 04-02-2018, 10:16 PM.

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    Originally posted by Karposh View Post
    English Translation:

    “So learn a little history...and you will see that the Macedonians are no Vlachs, nor any other nation, but pure Bulgarians like you; from there you will learn that the Macedonians did not disappear off the the face of the Earth like some are allowing themselves to conclude because as far as we know they did not sin so gravely for the Earth to open up and swallow them.”

    This quote by Dimitar Makedonski has been taken from a letter to the Editor of the “Makedonija” newspaper. The Editor was the well known Bulgarian nationalist, Petko Slaveykov, who had already made his feelings known regarding the growing "Macedonist" movement, as he called it, and the danger this movement posed for Bulgarian interests in Macedonia.

    There is something really odd about Makedonski's assertions in this quote as they seem quite contradictory to me. Carlin went to the trouble of underlining the part where he says that Macedonians are “pure Bulgarians”, to highlight Makedonski's supposed pro-Bulgarian feelings. However, Makedonski's next statement has left me scratching my head. It makes absolutely no sense when put alongside his first statement and I'm really struggling to take it at face value.

    Analysing this second part of his statement further, he is clearly invoking the Ancient Macedonians through his advice to Slaveykov to learn some history, where he will see that the Macedonians did not disappear from the face off the earth. The obvious premise of which is that the Ancient Macedonians are alive and well and continue to live on through the Modern Macedonians. He is clearly appealing to Slaveykov that the Macedonian continuum has never been broken.

    So, here's the dilemma for me, if Dimitar Makedonski believed that the Macedonian ethnic continuum has never broken throughout history, how then could he possibly equate the Macedonian nation with the Bulgarian one as he does in the first part of his statement? Unless, he understood the term Bulgarian to mean something other than the ethnic descriptor we know it to be today. Is it possible that Dimitar Makedonski had a different meaning in mind when he spoke of “pure Bulgarians like you?”

    As an experiment, please read the quote above with the following meaning in mind for the term Bulgarian: A Slavic-speaking Orthodox Christian.
    When you read it this way, then Makedonski's other quote regarding The Bulgarians of Macedonia were baptized by the Apostle Paul also starts to makes more sense.

    Any thoughts?
    Pure Bulgarian in their desire for a seperate Slavophone church defiantly.

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  • Karposh
    replied
    Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post

    "И jа понаучете си малце историjата ... и ќе се уверите дека Македонците не се цинцари, ниту друг некоj народ, туку се чисти Бугари како вас; од таму ќе се научите уште дека Македонците не се изгубиле од лицето на земјата како што некои си дозволуваат да докажуваат оти колку што ние знаеме тие не се согрешиле некогаш толку та да зине земјата па да ги голтне."
    English Translation:

    “So learn a little history...and you will see that the Macedonians are no Vlachs, nor any other nation, but pure Bulgarians like you; from there you will learn that the Macedonians did not disappear off the the face of the Earth like some are allowing themselves to conclude because as far as we know they did not sin so gravely for the Earth to open up and swallow them.”

    This quote by Dimitar Makedonski has been taken from a letter to the Editor of the “Makedonija” newspaper. The Editor was the well known Bulgarian nationalist, Petko Slaveykov, who had already made his feelings known regarding the growing "Macedonist" movement, as he called it, and the danger this movement posed for Bulgarian interests in Macedonia.

    There is something really odd about Makedonski's assertions in this quote as they seem quite contradictory to me. Carlin went to the trouble of underlining the part where he says that Macedonians are “pure Bulgarians”, to highlight Makedonski's supposed pro-Bulgarian feelings. However, Makedonski's next statement has left me scratching my head. It makes absolutely no sense when put alongside his first statement and I'm really struggling to take it at face value.

    Analysing this second part of his statement further, he is clearly invoking the Ancient Macedonians through his advice to Slaveykov to learn some history, where he will see that the Macedonians did not disappear from the face off the earth. The obvious premise of which is that the Ancient Macedonians are alive and well and continue to live on through the Modern Macedonians. He is clearly appealing to Slaveykov that the Macedonian continuum has never been broken.

    So, here's the dilemma for me, if Dimitar Makedonski believed that the Macedonian ethnic continuum has never broken throughout history, how then could he possibly equate the Macedonian nation with the Bulgarian one as he does in the first part of his statement? Unless, he understood the term Bulgarian to mean something other than the ethnic descriptor we know it to be today. Is it possible that Dimitar Makedonski had a different meaning in mind when he spoke of “pure Bulgarians like you?”

    As an experiment, please read the quote above with the following meaning in mind for the term Bulgarian: A Slavic-speaking Orthodox Christian.
    When you read it this way, then Makedonski's other quote regarding The Bulgarians of Macedonia were baptized by the Apostle Paul also starts to makes more sense.

    Any thoughts?

    Leave a comment:


  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    Originally posted by Karposh View Post
    Quote:
    "The Bulgarians of Macedonia were baptized by the Apostle Paul"

    It just occurred to me, this quote by Dimitar Makedonski can also be used to throw some weight to the argument of the non-ethnic definition of the term "Bulgarian." If we presume that Makedonski was smart enough to know that Bulgarians are never mentioned in the bible then this can also imply that he regarded the term "Bulgarian" as describing a Slavic-speaking Orthodox Christian. Let's not forget, many notable Macedonians of the time claimed direct descent from the Ancient Macedonians whom they regarded as their Slavic-speaking ancestors. It is just as likely that Makedonski was referring to Slavic-speaking Christians of Macedonia when speaks of "The Bulgarians of Macedonia" being baptized by the Apostle Paul. Worthy of a comment or two I think.

    Think you're onto something there, it's a point I try to put across as well.

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    replied
    Originally posted by Karposh View Post
    No LoM. Trust me, Makedonski was either completely confused or had no idea what he was talking about. I personally don't think he was an idiot.

    For the record, there was no Bulgarian empire in the time of the Apostle Paul.
    Was referring more to the Miladinovi, I know Makedonsko held Pro-Bulgarian views as he was one of the few people at the Sofia Congress in 1895 that voted in favour of Macedonia to be joined to Bulgaria.

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