Archaeology of the Ancient World

[afterhours]

I think the getty museum needs to reevaluate its staffing choices

Then so do all the other museums that I've cited. Major layoffs all across the board, huh?! You don't mess around do you?

Well hey if you were going to post politically motivated sources... why can't I? Yes, i'm calling the Met, Getty Museum, Louvre, etc politically motivated. They all have a stake in Greek history.

Are you insinuating some sort of Greek conspiracy?

I seriously think you just keep coming back here because you have a crush on me

Maybe

and think I might eventually post a picture of my tits, because I know for sure you have provided nothing exciting or interesting here.

I'm game!

I'll show you mine if you show me yours

Really I can't blame you, I'd rather be picking up Macedonians than a Greek chick with a beard and hellenic hip disorder.

Have you ever been to Greece?

Now that I have you all figured out, do you mind getting a move on? You're wasting internet space that, frankly, is precious.

You got me figured out do you? What's my modus operandi then (aside from posting links to reputable museums that display archaeology of the ancient world)?

[afterhours]

mate i thought modern history was your strength ???

Art history's my strength.

[afterhours]

It was quite the reverse in antiquity in my opinion.
But I note you do not care to define the term. Is this the wishy washy kind of approach we are to expect from you here? It is a little boring.

What's boring Risto? Gosh! What do I have to do to be taken seriously?

Boring? Come on now!

[afterhours]

In keeping with the theme of this thread, here's a little more from The Getty:

Green Bowl with Knobs and Incised Floral Pattern

http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=248738

The base of this turquoise vessel showcases a petal-shaped pattern punctuated by tear-shaped knobs. With its slightly flaring rim, the vessel probably served as a drinking bowl; the prominent knobs would have provided the drinker with something to grasp when tipping the bowl to take a sip of wine. Once the drink was consumed, the bowl rested upside down on its rim.

This vessel shape developed in the Achaemenid Empire in ancient Persia in the fifth century B.C. When the Greeks, led by Alexander the Great, expanded into Persia in the fourth century B.C., Greek artisans began producing this type of bowl in glass, clay, and silver. This bowl was cast in a mold; a glassworker skilled with a cutting wheel then added the base pattern and the ridges that encircle the rim.

Glass during this period was considered a luxury object and a bowl like this would have been found only among the highest levels of society. It could have remained in a single family for generations as an heirloom. Many of these pieces survive today because they were placed in tombs as grave gifts for the deceased.

[afterhours]

Afterhours Quote: "Do they take precedence over such fine institutions as the Louvre, the Hermitage, the British Museum, The Getty, and the Metropolitan Museum of Art?"

Here we go again. can you Get over mentioning the louvre, the hermitage etc etc? Do you understand what anyone is saying? These relics can be situated in a building on mars for all i care. Does not make a diferance were they are. Its the Human element such as historians and archaeologists that try to tell the story.

And material evidence means nothing to you?

By mentioning all these well known museums (well known for more reasons then one), in your mind you think there is more wheight to your argument. They are just Building made of Bricks and Mortar.

I think they're a little bit more than just buildings made of bricks and mortar.

The issue is, That History has not been told corectly and there is plenty of evidence that there is an alternative. You seem to think that its sighned sealed delivered and now you and your country are warried that you no longer Have The only say to it. So you can move these relics to my back yard, and the story would still be the same. Inacurate just less viewed.

I appreciate your opinion, but I think I'll stick to my bricks and mortar!

Also, SOM is corect, stop quoting every single 1 word at a time. especialy when your replies are sarcastic, or playing dumb, especialy stop with this louvre shit. What you are doing is by replying with long posts, you want to give an impresion that you have an answer to everything Therefor have the upper hand and the bigger the reply somehow in your Brain you have power. You are a fool if you think so. Its not the size of the post (with repetitive crap) its what is said.

Agreed! Quality over quantity...that's my motto!

Speaking of which, you got any serious replies to my posts, or is the pinnacle of your debating skills?

And another thing, what makes you think that you Modern Greeks with Albanian ancestors have anything to do with Ancient greeks.

We could start another thread on this very topic if you'd like! I don't mind....just wondering what your question has todo with the archaeology of the ancient world.

Finaly, your reply to my Question "WHAT DID THE TERMS PHILELENES AND BARBARIAN MEAN IN THE ANCIENT TIMES?"

Depending on what context in which those terms were used. Philip wasn't the only individual in the Hellenic world who was referred to as a "barbarian" or "philhellene". Philhellene, for example,also meant patriot.

your reply "Depending on how both terms were used, they both had more than one meaning."

This is for another thread, But you are not giving me Greek writer Daskalakis (Hellenism, 234) Pathetic Theories that it was a rhetorical slant, are you? Because you have no Hope with that argument.

And why not? Why would I be hopeless in describing it as political rhetoric?

[afterhours]

afterhours wrote:



The ancient Greek Koine became the lingua franca of the entire eastern Mediterranean approximately 350 years before Alexander the Great was even born. This was a direct result of the ancient Greek colonisation movement which started around 700bc. See the map below;

There were definitely Greek colonies spread out throughout the Mediterranean, but to say that Koine became a lingua franca 350 years before Alex the Great was born and centuries before Koine was even created is just not accurate. Sorry man, but it just ain't! Look up Koine and then get back to me!

This fact alone proves that the 19th century western European neo-hellenist's theory that Alexander supposedly "spread Hellenism" was an intentional lie as they clearly knew that the ancient Greek colonial movement proceeded him by several hundred years. How can you supposedly "spread" something in areas were it already existed.

It was reinforced and put into overdrive!

Btw, have you even bothered to look at any of the artifacts that I've posted? These artifacts tell a story! Put the pieces of the puzzle together, and I'm sure you'll get the general idea. If the museums that I've cited can put two and two together, then surely you can as well, no?

Philip II and his son Alexander chose the ancient Greek Koine as the administrative language of their multi-racial empire as it was already the lingua franca of the eastern Mediterranean, the pre-existing common language of diplomacy and trade. I know you are not going to believe this from me, so I'll let a genuine ancient Macedonian restate it for you in the quote below;

Sorry man, but get your facts straight! Koine was not the lingua franca of the Eastern Mediterranean prior to Philip and Alexander. Once again, Koine was not even a language 350 years before the Hellenistic Age.

Btw, is it ok if I call that era the Hellenistic Age? Do you guys take offense to that terminology? Just wondering.

Finally, instead of coming here and trying convince us that the ancient Macedonians were "Greek", why don't you convince us how you yourself or the entire multi-racial modern 'Greek' population are related to the ancient Hellenes???

Fine! I have no problem discussing these topics, but can't we leave that for another thread?

Speaking of which....in keeping with the theme of this thread, here's some more archaelogy from the ancient world:

THE SMITHSONIAN, Washington, D.C.

The Art of Buddhism

http://www.asia.si.edu/exhibitions/online/buddhism/india2a.htm

This exquisitely modeled head, with its classical youthful features and wavy hair, incorporates two important signs of superhuman perfection that set a Buddha image apart from any other. The ushnisha, or cranial bump on top of the head, a sign of the Buddha's omniscience, has been transformed into an elegant topknot, while the urna, originally a curl of hair resting on the forehead and symbolizing his renunciation, appears as a rounded dot between the eyebrows. The head still carries traces of the gold leaf with which it was once covered, and its brown surface coloring appears to be the "ground" that was applied to the stone so that the gold leaf would adhere. This head was once part of a Buddha image, clad in a monastic robe reminiscent of a Roman toga, which must have been installed in a major monastic center in the ancient province of Gandhara, in modern-day Pakistan.

The western nature of the art of Gandhara can be understood in the context of the many Greek outposts founded across Asia by Alexander the Great (reigned 336–323 B.C.E.), who reached India in 327 B.C.E. The Gandharan style exemplifies Indian Buddhist ideals combined with the best of the Greco-Roman artistic tradition as expressed by artists working on the fringes of the Hellenistic world. This gently smiling Buddha head is the work of an artist of consummate skill and is a superb example of an image carved during the second century.

[Risto the Great]

What's boring Risto? Gosh! What do I have to do to be taken seriously?

Define the term.
And ... just to confirm how boring your one line posts are ... I can't even remember the term we were discussing.

[afterhours]

Define the term.
And ... just to confirm how boring your one line posts are ...

Am I not posting relevant material? How are my posts which relate to the substance of this thread (archaeology of the ancient world), boring?

You don't like my one-liners? Fine! I'll go out of my way to give you two-liners! Deal?

I can't even remember the term we were discussing.

I forgot too! Lol!!!

[Risto the Great]

I forgot too! Lol!!!

Ethnocide was the word.

[afterhours]

Ethnocide was the word.

Can you be more specific? Ethnocide in regards to antiquity?

Spell it out for me man! I ain't no mind reader!

[George S.]

To AH you said that Alexander the great entrusted his empire to greek kings.NOT TRUE!Alexander entrusted his empire to his trusted Macedonian Generals,There is a HUGE distinction.The Ptolemies were Macedonian Through & through They were not Greek they were MAcedonian.One of the daughters of the Ptolemies was Cleopatra she was Macedonian.You don't need to tell me anything i have put two & two together.When the greeks or whoever supplies these so called fine museums with artifacts the supplier is only too happy to give it's own stamp of approval.Eg this vase from egypt isn't exqusite it's actually a Greek bust of Alexander.We know how the Greeks MANIPULATE things for their advantage!Say no more i got you worked out its all lies &false crap.

[Risto the Great]

Can you be more specific? Ethnocide in regards to antiquity?

I only asked you to define it.
Was it different in antiquity vs more recent history? If it was, I will take both definitions from you please.

Spell it out for me man! I ain't no mind reader!

I am pretty sure you are not a mind reader. But to test it, let me know what I think of you right now.
Hey look at me ... one liners are easy.

[Risto the Great]

Just out of curiousity, what do you think Angelina Markus would have to say about the following bit of archaeological information provided by the Getty?

http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=248738

Green Bowl with Knobs and Incised Floral Pattern

The base of this turquoise vessel showcases a petal-shaped pattern punctuated by tear-shaped knobs. With its slightly flaring rim, the vessel probably served as a drinking bowl; the prominent knobs would have provided the drinker with something to grasp when tipping the bowl to take a sip of wine. Once the drink was consumed, the bowl rested upside down on its rim.

This vessel shape developed in the Achaemenid Empire in ancient Persia in the fifth century B.C. When the Greeks, led by Alexander the Great, expanded into Persia in the fourth century B.C., Greek artisans began producing this type of bowl in glass, clay, and silver. This bowl was cast in a mold; a glassworker skilled with a cutting wheel then added the base pattern and the ridges that encircle the rim.

Glass during this period was considered a luxury object and a bowl like this would have been found only among the highest levels of society. It could have remained in a single family for generations as an heirloom. Many of these pieces survive today because they were placed in tombs as grave gifts for the deceased.

Here is my take.
The Universities are making fatal definitional assumptions. Everybody knows there was absolutely no such thing as "Greeks" in the historical time you refer to above. As a consequence, there are a significant number of delusional morons who equate many of these ancient races of people with modern Greeks.

Interestingly enough, in complete contrast, there have always been Macedonians.

[George S.]

THere was no word for Greeks ntil 1832 when Greece was called Greece
It's a Latin word.
What were Greeks called formerly?they were called Achaens,then Romaioi,then Hellenes.Now the Greeks are trying to convince everyone that they are really Macedonians.The fact is the Greeks can't make up their mind on their own identity!

[afterhours]

To AH you said that Alexander the great entrusted his empire to greek kings.NOT TRUE!Alexander entrusted his empire to his trusted Macedonian Generals,There is a HUGE distinction.

Not according to The Louvre and The Hermitage

The Ptolemies were Macedonian Through & through They were not Greek they were MAcedonian..

Really?

Let's see what The Field Museum in Chicago has to say!

Cleopatra of Egypt

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/cleopatra/whocleo5a.html

"Cleopatra spoke several languages, but her first language was Greek. Scholars have found her handwriting in Greek on a royal decree. With the words "Make it happen", she granted tax-exempt status to a Roman general who was Mark Antony's right-hand man. In the exhibition, you can learn more about her Greek heritage and family background."

Cleopatra of Egypt

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/cleopatra/cleoexhibitb.html

"Cleopatra lived from 69-30 B.C.E. She took the throne at age 18.
Though Cleopatra was a queen of Egypt, her family heritage was Macedonian Greek. "
[/QUOTE]