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Akzion i did write an s in elias.The S means it's been hellenised get that right it's not a greek original name it's been copied Ilia to elias.It's all from macedonian Iliy the sun god.You are quite happy to adopt & copy & call it your own as Helios.It's ok to hellenize & call it greek it's ok to colonise other countries & take their land from them.It's called the megali idea.
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"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV -
like Onur mentioned, it is wide spread name for a diety.Originally posted by George S. View Post
in many similar forms.
i would not say is is ONLY our, Macedonian God, couse i guess it would be not true.
@ Onur
i guess you have seen the pictures showing St. Ilia, Ilyaz the Sun God, and few similar pictures, with the 4 horses taking his Chariot Wagon to the Sky / the Sun
it is always bein the same God / Picture
@ all others: the ancient greeks collonization had it´s peak in the 8th century BC, when their number reached the procentage needed for the new Nation / Culture to be created - The Ancient Greeks.
The Megalo-greeks were first spreading it back to the 16th century, and later went from that, to the "autohtones" theory, what is total ignorance and absence of any serious Historical Education or Research.
So i would ask also my dear Macedonians, when you mention some 16th century and the Ancient Greeks, pls try to provide some more info for the source.
No need to post the source, you can if you wish, but you can also just mention it, who want to know more - can search.
gl & hf all
Bratot:
Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.Comment
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and i hope some our southern neighbor will soon try to explain me the meaning of the international word with "greek" origin:
Ethnos
Couse we speak about Ethnos / Ethnic groups here, and the meaning of names / "nims".
One side claiming that we, the Macedonians, are descent of the Ancient Macedonians, but in no way neither we, nor our Ancient ancestors are Greeks, and the other side claiming that "there is only one Makedonia, and it´s bein greek for over 4000 years" and they have exclusive right on all conected with MakedoniaBratot:
Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.Comment
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Well its an Ancient Greek word (which is possibly why you would not find such word in Modern Greek). But its awfully close to what your nation is called "HELLAS" or "ELLAS"Originally posted by Akzion View Post
Allegedly, This word "ELAZ" or "ELAD" was used by the Ancient Greeks meaning "BLACK" (which in modern Greek "MAVROS" is the word for "BLACK")
Where did i find it? well This has been posted before so its not new here at MTO.
The most common words that the Greeks used to designate the color of the Ethiopian’s skin were ELAS (black) and compounds of ELAS KELAINOS (black or dark- Aesch. Prom. 808 and Theoc. 17.87.) and (dark - Quint. Smyrn. 2.101; cf. Hes. Op. 527.
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...42&postcount=8Last edited by Bill77; 01-05-2011, 06:37 PM.http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873Comment
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Are you sure that Polybius and Plutarch were “against the Greek myth”?Do you actually know what they have written?Take for start a taste of Polybius view:Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
This is a sworn treaty made between Hannibal… the Macedonians,and their allies, on the other part…. The oath is taken in the presence of Zeus, Here, and Apollo: of the god of the Carthaginians… of all the gods who rule Carthage: of all the gods who rule Macedonia and the rest of Greece:
Again, you bitterly denounced Alexander, because,when he believed himself to be wronged, he punished Thebes: but of his having exacted vengeance of the Persians for their outrages on all the Greeks you made no mention at all; nor of his having released us all in common from heavy miseries, by enslaving the barbarians, and depriving them of the supplies which they used for the ruin of the Greeks,--sometimes pitting the Athenians against the ancestors of these gentlemen here, at another the Thebans; nor finally of his having subjected Asia to the Greeks.
what high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks? For that Greece would have been continually involved in great dangers, if we had not had the Macedonians and the ambition of their kings as a barrier, who is ignorant?... And this would often have happened if the Macedonians had not been on our frontiers.
Then you were contending for glory and supremacy with Achaeans and Macedonians, men of kindred blood with yourselves, and with Philip their leader; now a war of slavery is threatening Greece against men of another race, whom you think to bring against Philip, but have really unconsciously brought against yourselves and all Greece…just so are the Aetolians acting in the present case. For in their desire to conquer Philip and humble Macedonia, they have unconsciously brought such a mighty cloud from the west, as for the present perhaps will overshadow Macedonia first, but which in the sequel will be the origin of heavy evils to all Greece.
And Plutarch:
But he said, "If I were not Alexander, I should be Diogenes"; that is to say: "If it were not my purpose to combine foreign things with things Greek, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, to push the bounds of Macedonia to the farthest Ocean, and to disseminate and shower the blessings of Greek justice and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me, Diogenes, that I imitate Heracles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysus, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and desire that victorious Greeks should dance again in India and revive the memory of the Bacchic revels among the savage mountain tribes beyond the Caucasus. Even there it is said that there are certain holy men, a law unto themselves, who follow a rigid gymnosophy and give all their time to God; they are more frugal than Diogenes since they have no need of a wallet. For they do not store up food, since they have it ever fresh and green from the earth; the flowing rivers give them drink and they have fallen leaves and grassy earth to lie upon. Because of me even those faraway sages shall come to know of Diogenes, and he of them. And I also, like Diogenes, must alter the standard of coinage and stamp foreign states with the impress of Greek government."
So what?Cyprus and Asia Minor were also shown separate from Greece in his maps.Weren’t these Greek lands in ancient time,or at least lands with large Greek populations?Even Thessaly,Epirus,Acarnania and Peloponnesus were mentioned as separate lands in many ancient Greek texts:Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
Demosthenes:
Who raised the cry that Philip was forming coalitions in Greece and Peloponnesus while you slept?
Appian:
and ambassadors were sent to the allied kings, Eumenes, Antiochus, Ariarathes, Masinissa, and Ptolemy of Egypt, also to Greece Thessaly, Epirus, Acarnania, and to such of the islands as they could perhaps draw to their side.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...0%3Atext%3DMac.
This proves nothing because i see Chalcidians being separated from Greeks too.Besides I also see Macedonians being clearly distinguished from barbariansOriginally posted by Makedonetz View Post
Thrasymachus here speaks only about Archelaus,he doesn’t mention the whole Macedonian people.Such statements have the same reliability with Aeschines accusation against Demosthenes that he was a barbarian too:Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
And with Prodicus’ statement that the people in Lesbos island spoke a barbarian language:
Next time you quote passages from some book please don’t forget to write his real name,i.e. Gandeto or Josif Grezlovski.Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
He is a Macedonian of course and i won’t bother with someone who does not even know that Herodotus was historian and not biographer. On the contrary,i will bother with your “specialist” Borza who indeed wrote the following two quotes,exposing his ignorance of basic details of ancient Greek history:
Because Macedonians were surrounded by non-Greek peoples,Thracians,Illyrians,Paronians and even in Macedonia itself there were residing of that time many non-Greek Thracian and other tribes,Pierians,Almopians,Eordians.This is well described by Ulrich Wilcken:Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
Borza displays here a striking ignorance on Greek history as I said above,too striking for a supposed “speacialist”.The term Philhellne was certainly applied to Greeks in ancient time:Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
“Hieron of Syracuse,they say,was a Philhellene”
Xenophon calls "Philhellene" his friend,king Agesilaus of Sparta:
“Again, if it is honourable in one who is a Greek to be a friend to the Greeks, what other general has the world seen unwilling to take a city when he thought that it would be sacked, or who looked on victory in a war against Greeks as a disaster"?
(press the “load Greek text” button to see the word φιλέλληνα
Isocrates called philhellenes the ancestors of Athenians who decided to fight against the superior Persian army.In this translation below “philhellenes” is interpreted as “lovers of Greece”:
However Isocrates himself used the word φιλέλληνες (load the Greek text):
Dio Chrysostomus called the ancestors of the Corinthians philhellenes too.Again it’s translated as “lovers of Greece” in English:
“in company with the states of Thebes and Elis they opposed the Spartans in defence of the common rights of Hellas; and by this act they also showed that they were not mere lovers of honour, but rather lovers of Hellas”
However the term φιλέλληνες is used in the Greek text:
So much about your specialist,or maybe it’s not just ignorance?"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35Comment
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That's wrong. He probably means μέλας (melas=black, dark). This is the word where modern international terms as melancholic, melanoma etc come from. It's still used in Modern Greek, most commonly for ink=melani, brunette=melahrinos, melania=inkiness.Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
The word kelainos also means dark, dark-skin; it first appears in Iliad, and its' also the name of mythical persons. I couldn't find anything about it's etymology or guess myself.
Where did you find this?
Allegedly, This word "ELAZ" or "ELAD" was used by the Ancient Greeks meaning "BLACK" (which in modern Greek "MAVROS" is the word for "BLACK")Comment
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Aristoteles is certainly turning in his grave seeing your attempt to connect his name with modern Macedonian language.It's a 100% Greek name,Aristos=excellent,best+telos=aim,purpose,so Aristoteles=one who has excellent purpose.Originally posted by Serdarot View Posthow could i miss this
You don´t see similarities between Orest and Riste / Risto?
A-Risto-tel must be turning in his grave, when "watching" what kind of idiots are trying to convince the world that they are his descants
AT, dude, i dont know with what they are feeding you in your country, but change something, this is not good for the human race...
The words Aristos and telos are used in both anc. and modern Greek and there are a lot of other Greek names that have either the first part of Aristotle's name,Aristo-,i.e.:
Aristarchos
Aristandros
Aristagoras
Aristeidis
Aristogeiton
Aristodorus
Aristomenes
Aristophoros
Aristotheos
Aristonikos
The suffix -teles is also very common in ancient Greek names:
Praxiteles
Lysiteles
Dioteles
Architeles
Habroteles
Thymoteles
Nicoteles
Demoteles
Theoteles
Androteles
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35Comment
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Bill,you don't know ancient Greek.The ancient Greek word for "black" was "μέλας":Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
There is also the word "κελαινός" with the same meaning,which was archaic,used only in homeric time and not in classical age:
There are no such words as "έλας",let alone "έλαζ" or "έλαδ".(Had you been familiar with Greek you would have known that no Greek word ends in "ζ" or "δ",the only ending consonants are s,n and r (this last one very rarely though and only in anc. Greek).If you make a research for "ἔλας","έλαζ" or "έλαδ",these are the results,no relation with "black":
This is the meaning of the word Hellas:
from prefix - (el- "sun, bright, shiny", (elios, "sun")) + (las "rock, stone"). : "The land of the sun and the rock".
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35Comment
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Thanks for that explanation. No i am not that familiar with Greek. But you have just cleared up for me more, that Modern Greek, is Nothing like Ancient Greek. Chalk and Cheese.Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
You see, that word i gave you "έλαζ" or "έλαδ" was used by the Ancient Greeks meaning "BLACK" according to Beardsley, G.H, 1929 The Negro in Greek and Roman Civilization: A Study of the Ethiopian Type, The John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore.
I would argue with him (if he is still alive) but i know who i would believe if you had an debate with him. Sorry dude, but i don't know what level of Education you have.http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873Comment
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Agamoi Thytai
Are you referring to your book references as credible evidence? If so, then please explain the credibility of the book reference you quoted in your post of 10:33am regarding :-
“Hieron of Syracuse,they say,was a Philhellene”
The below description, direct from the site, gives an insight into what the book is about:-
[QUOTEAelian's Historical Miscellany is a pleasurable example of light reading for Romans of the early third century][/QUOTE]On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"Comment
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It would have been a good argument for u BUT if there were no other quotes from Polybius. Lets take rhis one again:Are you sure that Polybius and Plutarch were “against the Greek myth”?Do you actually know what they have written?Take for start a taste of Polybius view:
This is a sworn treaty made between Hannibal… the Macedonians,and their allies, on the other part…. The oath is taken in the presence of Zeus, Here, and Apollo: of the god of the Carthaginians… of all the gods who rule Carthage: of all the gods who rule Macedonia and the rest of Greece:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...%3Achapter%3D9
How will u explain this? Not just that Macedonia is not considered to be Greek but also Aetolia, Agrae, Apodotea, Amphilocia are settled with non Greeks!Polybius
(Book XVIII. 5) Philip V from Macedon responds to the Greek and Roman demands:
"But what is most outrageous of all is that they should attempt to put themselves on the same footing as the Romans and demand that the Macedonians should withdraw from the whole of Greece. To use such language is arrogant enough in the first place, but while we may endure this from the Romans, it is quite intolerable coming from the Aetolians. In any case,' he continued, 'what is this Greece which you demand that I should evacuate, and how do you define Greece? Certainly most of the Aetolians themselves are not Greeks! The countries of the Agraae, the Apodotea, and the Aphilochians cannot be regarded as Greek. So do you allow me to remain in those territories.
U have nothing here. Macedonians were defending their own land and with that also stopping the advance of barbarian armies to the south.what high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks? For that Greece would have been continually involved in great dangers, if we had not had the Macedonians and the ambition of their kings as a barrier, who is ignorant?... And this would often have happened if the Macedonians had not been on our frontiers.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...3Achapter%3D35
Then you were contending for glory and supremacy with Achaeans and Macedonians, men of kindred blood with yourselves, and with Philip their leader; now a war of slavery is threatening Greece against men of another race, whom you think to bring against Philip, but have really unconsciously brought against yourselves and all Greece…just so are the Aetolians acting in the present case. For in their desire to conquer Philip and humble Macedonia, they have unconsciously brought such a mighty cloud from the west, as for the present perhaps will overshadow Macedonia first, but which in the sequel will be the origin of heavy evils to all Greece.
A speech for persuation of some greek city not to take side with Romans against Macedonians. I would like to know to whom is this speech addressed, maybe the kindred blood is for the pelasgian part of the blood in the Greeks. Here is a nother quote from Polybius:
Here we have clear distinction among Macedonia and Greece. U cannot take just few quotes u like from some author and ignore the others u don’t like…[Book XVIII, 1] Philip V from Macedon invites Flamininus (Roman commander) to explain what he, Philip, should do to have peace:
"The Roman general replied that his duty dictated an answer which was both simple and clear. He demanded that Philip should withdraw from the whole of Greece, restore to each of the states the prisoners and deserters he was holding, hand over to the Romans the region of Illyria which he had seized after the treaty that had been made in Epirus, and so on...."
Fits in the context of the Argive and Divine origin of Alexander. Let us see some more quotes from Plutarch:And Plutarch:
But he said, "If I were not Alexander, I should be Diogenes"; that is to say: "If it were not my purpose to combine foreign things with things Greek, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, to push the bounds of Macedonia to the farthest Ocean, and to disseminate and shower the blessings of Greek justice and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me, Diogenes, that I imitate Heracles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysus, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and desire that victorious Greeks should dance again in India and revive the memory of the Bacchic revels among the savage mountain tribes beyond the Caucasus. Even there it is said that there are certain holy men, a law unto themselves, who follow a rigid gymnosophy and give all their time to God; they are more frugal than Diogenes since they have no need of a wallet. For they do not store up food, since they have it ever fresh and green from the earth; the flowing rivers give them drink and they have fallen leaves and grassy earth to lie upon. Because of me even those faraway sages shall come to know of Diogenes, and he of them. And I also, like Diogenes, must alter the standard of coinage and stamp foreign states with the impress of Greek government."
http://websfor.org/alexander/plutarch/fortuna1b.asp
BY A MACEDONIAN ARES!!! Only a drowing can be more clear than this, if Macedonians where Greeks why would they have their own Ares…He, Demosthenes, said of Philip that Philip was not Greek, nor related to Greeks but comes from Macedonia where a person could not even buy a decent slave. 'Soon after his death the people of Athens paid him fitting honours by erecting his statue in bronze, and by decreeing that the eldest member of his family should be maintained in the prytaneum at the public expense. On the base of his statue was carved his famous inscription: 'If only your strength had been equal, Demosthenes, to your wisdom Never would Greece have been ruled by a Macedonian Ares' [p.216]
That is because Thessaly,Epirus,Acarnania where inhabited by a majority of non Greeks (remember the quote from Polybius).So what?Cyprus and Asia Minor were also shown separate from Greece in his maps.Weren’t these Greek lands in ancient time,or at least lands with large Greek populations?Even Thessaly,Epirus,Acarnania and Peloponnesus were mentioned as separate lands in many ancient Greek texts:
Many people in Greece spoke a barbarian language, because they preserved their old Pelasgian language.Thrasymachus here speaks only about Archelaus,he doesn’t mention the whole Macedonian people.Such statements have the same reliability with Aeschines accusation against Demosthenes that he was a barbarian too:
And with Prodicus’ statement that the people in Lesbos island spoke a barbarian language:
http://books.google.gr/books?id=Oe0d...barian&f=false
And u think that Thrasymachus here speaks only about Archelaus,and he doesn’t mention the whole Macedonian people. Maybe, but see this:
Was it disaster for the Macedonians?! No, because they were not Greeks Pausanias
Greek Historian
"I have already said in my history of Attica that the defeat at Chaeronea was a disaster for all the Greeks" [9.6.5].
Borza is one of the greatest specialist of ancient Macedonia and u may dislike him as much as u like that dose not prove u nothing. Borza have great research about the so called “hellenization” , maybe u should find that read it and give some opinion about that..Next time you quote passages from some book please don’t forget to write his real name,i.e. Gandeto or Josif Grezlovski.
He is a Macedonian of course and i won’t bother with someone who does not even know that Herodotus was historian and not biographer. On the contrary,i will bother with your “specialist” Borza who indeed wrote the following two quotes,exposing his ignorance of basic details of ancient Greek history:Comment
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Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View PostAre you sure that Polybius and Plutarch were “against the Greek myth”?Do you actually know what they have written?Take for start a taste of Polybius view:
are you confusing your statements? If Macedonia was greece why do they consider them barbarians and outsiders to a threat to greece borders?...did the ancent hellens suffer from wine poisoning?
"I therefore beg you all to be on your guard against this danger, and I appeal especially to King Philip. [Macedonian king Philip V] For you the safest policy, instead of wearing down the Greeks and making them an easy prey for the invader, is to take care of them as you would of your own body, and to protect every province of Greece as you would if it were a part of your own dominions. If you follow this policy, the Greeks will be your friends and your faithful allies in case of attack, and foreigners will be the less inclined to plot against your throne, because they will be discouraged by the loyalty of the Greeks towards you." [p .300] book 5.104
This is a sworn treaty made between Hannibal… the Macedonians,and their allies, on the other part…. The oath is taken in the presence of Zeus, Here, and Apollo: of the god of the Carthaginians… of all the gods who rule Carthage: of all the gods who rule Macedonia and the rest of Greece:
Agian your links are all BS. We could throw the ball back and forth all day but the question remains.....why did they think of us a barbarians? truely this is something you can aswer?
Again, you bitterly denounced Alexander, because,when he believed himself to be wronged, he punished Thebes: but of his having exacted vengeance of the Persians for their outrages on all the Greeks you made no mention at all; nor of his having released us all in common from heavy miseries, by enslaving the barbarians, and depriving them of the supplies which they used for the ruin of the Greeks,--sometimes pitting the Athenians against the ancestors of these gentlemen here, at another the Thebans; nor finally of his having subjected Asia to the Greeks.
Once agian get your head out of the sand and i didnt denounce anything about Aleksander. It clearly shows Macedonia to the NORTH of greece we were a seperate state in war and conquering you pheasents all the way to Egypt.
what high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks? For that Greece would have been continually involved in great dangers, if we had not had the Macedonians and the ambition of their kings as a barrier, who is ignorant?... And this would often have happened if the Macedonians had not been on our frontiers.
What allies? We deserve it all brothetr because you were an enemy to us in the past and that tick of a country called greece is still attached today sucking our culture and using it to their own advantage. It sound slike greece was fighting agiants the macedonians and barbarians? make up your mind?
Then you were contending for glory and supremacy with Achaeans and Macedonians, men of kindred blood with yourselves, and with Philip their leader; now a war of slavery is threatening Greece against men of another race, whom you think to bring against Philip, but have really unconsciously brought against yourselves and all Greece…just so are the Aetolians acting in the present case. For in their desire to conquer Philip and humble Macedonia, they have unconsciously brought such a mighty cloud from the west, as for the present perhaps will overshadow Macedonia first, but which in the sequel will be the origin of heavy evils to all Greece.
Stop playing the poor boy who has their spilled milk.
And Plutarch:
But he said, "If I were not Alexander, I should be Diogenes"; that is to say: "If it were not my purpose to combine foreign things with things Greek, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, to push the bounds of Macedonia to the farthest Ocean, and to disseminate and shower the blessings of Greek justice and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me, Diogenes, that I imitate Heracles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysus, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and desire that victorious Greeks should dance again in India and revive the memory of the Bacchic revels among the savage mountain tribes beyond the Caucasus. Even there it is said that there are certain holy men, a law unto themselves, who follow a rigid gymnosophy and give all their time to God; they are more frugal than Diogenes since they have no need of a wallet. For they do not store up food, since they have it ever fresh and green from the earth; the flowing rivers give them drink and they have fallen leaves and grassy earth to lie upon. Because of me even those faraway sages shall come to know of Diogenes, and he of them. And I also, like Diogenes, must alter the standard of coinage and stamp foreign states with the impress of Greek government."
more BS man where do you guys find this stuff? was it in a deep cave of the german musiem of history made in 1980?
So what?Cyprus and Asia Minor were also shown separate from Greece in his maps.Weren’t these Greek lands in ancient time,or at least lands with large Greek populations?Even Thessaly,Epirus,Acarnania and Peloponnesus were mentioned as separate lands in many ancient Greek texts:
Cyprus was never yours!!! we have went through this topic over and over your claims are nothing but stolen identity's and poor greece mentality.
Demosthenes:
Who raised the cry that Philip was forming coalitions in Greece and Peloponnesus while you slept?
[color=red"... not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave" - Demosthenes, Third Philippic, 31. The famous words that this Greek orator from Athens used to describe the Macedonian king Philip II, the father of Alexander the Great, prior to Philip’s conquest of Greece.
a. If the Macedonians were Greeks but still called barbarians and nor related to the Greeks, why is then no other Greek tribe called barbarians and nor related to the Greeks in "rhetorical context"? There were many examples when that could have happened, it’s enough to point to the long Peloponesian War, or any of the many constant wars between the Greek states. Yet no Spartan, Athenian, Theban, Epirote, was ever called non-Greek or barbarian during any of these political and war conflicts! Not ONCE!
b. We know for a fact that the ancient Greeks also called the Persians barbarians. Are we suppose to say now, based on the modern Greek "logic", that the Persians were too a Greek tribe, but they were called non-Greeks only in "rhetorical context"?[/i][/color]
Appian:
and ambassadors were sent to the allied kings, Eumenes, Antiochus, Ariarathes, Masinissa, and Ptolemy of Egypt, also to Greece Thessaly, Epirus, Acarnania, and to such of the islands as they could perhaps draw to their side.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...0%3Atext%3DMac.
"The truth of the matter seems to have been that Alexander distrusted his Greek allies so profoundly - and with good reason - that he preferred to risk the collapse of his campaign in a spate of rebellion rather than entrust its safety to a Greek fleet." [p.192]
This proves nothing because i see Chalcidians being separated from Greeks too.Besides I also see Macedonians being clearly distinguished from barbarians
Thrasymachus here speaks only about Archelaus,he doesn’t mention the whole Macedonian people.Such statements have the same reliability with Aeschines accusation against Demosthenes that he was a barbarian too:
And with Prodicus’ statement that the people in Lesbos island spoke a barbarian language:
Next time you quote passages from some book please don’t forget to write his real name,i.e. Gandeto or Josif Grezlovski.
He is a Macedonian of course and i won’t bother with someone who does not even know that Herodotus was historian and not biographer. On the contrary,i will bother with your “specialist” Borza who indeed wrote the following two quotes,exposing his ignorance of basic details of ancient Greek history:
Because Macedonians were surrounded by non-Greek peoples,Thracians,Illyrians,Paronians and even in Macedonia itself there were residing of that time many non-Greek Thracian and other tribes,Pierians,Almopians,Eordians.This is well described by Ulrich Wilcken:
Borza displays here a striking ignorance on Greek history as I said above,too striking for a supposed “speacialist”.The term Philhellne was certainly applied to Greeks in ancient time:
“Hieron of Syracuse,they say,was a Philhellene”
Xenophon calls "Philhellene" his friend,king Agesilaus of Sparta:
“Again, if it is honourable in one who is a Greek to be a friend to the Greeks, what other general has the world seen unwilling to take a city when he thought that it would be sacked, or who looked on victory in a war against Greeks as a disaster"?
(press the “load Greek text” button to see the word φιλέλληνα
Isocrates called philhellenes the ancestors of Athenians who decided to fight against the superior Persian army.In this translation below “philhellenes” is interpreted as “lovers of Greece”:
However Isocrates himself used the word φιλέλληνες (load the Greek text):
Dio Chrysostomus called the ancestors of the Corinthians philhellenes too.Again it’s translated as “lovers of Greece” in English:
“in company with the states of Thebes and Elis they opposed the Spartans in defence of the common rights of Hellas; and by this act they also showed that they were not mere lovers of honour, but rather lovers of Hellas”
However the term φιλέλληνες is used in the Greek text:
So much about your specialist,or maybe it’s not just ignorance?
Go enjoy your fake history i feel sorry for the future of greece its going to be a grest conversation at dinner tables
Makedoncite se borat
za svoite pravdini!
"The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
- Goce DelchevComment
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If this information is correct, then, given that the Ancient Macedonian language was different than the Mediterranean lingua franca spoken in the region during that period, Aristotle would then represent yet another extra-linguistic adoption, similar to Darius the Persian. This gifted thinker’s true name must have certainly conformed to the customs and language of the indigenous people he was born amongst. The fact that this set of meanings is descriptive indicates that it was applied to this individual after he proved himself to be as he came to be described, which is not truly a name, really, but something similar to a title. An Afro-Asiatic custom, perhaps? Hmm? Would a mother really name her child” Lover of Horses”? What kind of mother would let her baby crawl around a stable loving horses? Is it not the case that loving horses is illegal in most countries?Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
I had no idea that the Greeks invented Rap music and Bling!.Comment
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Good points sovius,
I am a lover of all sorts of women. This is why my mother named me "ZENKAR"
She must have had a crystal ball or something.http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873Comment
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Either that or you have crystal balls.Originally posted by Bill77 View PostGood points sovius,
I am a lover of all sorts of women. This is why my mother named me "ZENKAR"
She must have had a crystal ball or something.
Jeez, I am in a good mood this week.
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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