Macedonia - Where to Now?

[Vangelovski]

I guess (for me) it is the belief that I can influence and change something in this nation if my desire leads me to it. I honestly feel this empowered.

There are more. But this sense of empowerment is foremost in my mind.

You're thinking of setting up your own PUP party arn't you? The Risto United Party (RUP)

[George S.]

The thing that sticks out is lack of unity to strive forward.We can talk till the cows come home but we need unity & momentum.In your discussion gocka how are you going to convince the common macedonian man .How are you going to win them over.Not only that
but you saw ,we all saw the ugliness of the otherside.What we need is the oldtime magic cure for all ailments.The mind tends to play some funny tricks on macedonian people.You can't apply empowerement whils't they are still sick in their mind.

[Macedonian]

I can only state publicly that a multi-pronged, multi-faced and multi-faceted approach is required. There are solutions to EVERY issue and we are far more empowered, powerful, strategic and capable than we perhaps view ourselves to be. These solutions solely require repetitive action from a number of dedicated individuals.

[julie]

empowerment - how do we empower individuals to make a change, need a common goal, for cohesion to take this effect.

I look on 2 issues that are detrimental to Macedonia - the Interim Accord and the Ohrid Framework Agreement - and these need to be declared null and void

I do not know or understand the electoral processes in Macedonia. Neither party seeks to declare either of these agreements null and void. Last thing Macedonia needs is to jump on board with the failed EU.

Is there a way a party can be formed within Macedonia with clear objectives to categorically declare these agreements null and void and encourage instead of stalwatr investment within Macedonia from aboard to generate employment within the country...

A party with strong principles , one that will promote unity for the people, to encourage more national pride and social consciousness, because am not seeing any of that from within RoM

[Macedonian]

Apologies for not being specific enough Julie. I mean't that we, the outsiders, are more empowered.

Most definitely a party can be formed with Macedonia to do what is right, just and needs to be done. It will however, take those of us from the outside to go in and make it happen. Nothing less.

You are right in saying that you don't see it within Macedonia because I didn't and don't see it either. Mind you the fires burn just not hot enough to boil the water...yet.

There are a multitude of reasons for this.

[George S.]

some people have mentioned that Macedonians could be a lost cause.Whils't it could be nothing but a truer word.Collectively,macedonians could do a whole lot more.For a start look at wwhats been replaced by our nationalism.A weak & unproud people.We let minorities walk ver us over supposed lost rights.But minorities like Albanians are doing it to make Macedonia a greater Albania.So far they seem to be successful.Why can't we be allowed a full rein of control of our country?Why should we share our country with the shiptari.The shiptars don't respect or like us at all so they are in opposition to us as a people..We have lily livered Rom politicians who are doing everything to stay in power & cooperate with the Albanians.Giving them what they want all the time.

[Macedonian]

some people have mentioned that Macedonians could be a lost cause.Whils't it could be nothing but a truer word.Collectively,macedonians could do a whole lot more.For a start look at wwhats been replaced by our nationalism.A weak & unproud people.We let minorities walk ver us over supposed lost rights.But minorities like Albanians are doing it to make Macedonia a greater Albania.So far they seem to be successful.Why can't we be allowed a full rein of control of our country?Why should we share our country with the shiptari.The shiptars don't respect or like us at all so they are in opposition to us as a people..We have lily livered Rom politicians who are doing everything to stay in power & cooperate with the Albanians.Giving them what they want all the time.

I would dare to say George that the predominant reason for this is due to selling out for monetary gain. It not only works into the hands of Shiptari but also the other 3 wolves, the establishment and lrger key financial benefactors.

[makedonche]

We have all just failed what we are trying to achieve - "changing the hearts & minds of the enslaved Macedonians" - Ramo is a an example, he is another one we have lost without changing his mentality. Obviously a different approach may be required - tell me if I'm wrong!

[Vangelovski]

We have all just failed what we are trying to achieve - "changing the hearts & minds of the enslaved Macedonians" - Ramo is a an example, he is another one we have lost without changing his mentality. Obviously a different approach may be required - tell me if I'm wrong!

Lead by example Makedonche - if you have better or different ideas then noone is stopping you. You're well respected here and your contributions are always appreciated.

[George S.]

That's it "gazot me bolit"or kurot me bolit".What more proof for apathy can be added to the enslaved mindset.No one cares or gives a damn about where Macedonia is headed.We had this before about worrying only for the day to day living.As long as their belly is full etc roof over your head et.politics is for the politician domain.Te ordinary person doesn't care one shit about where Macedonia is headed.The citizens of rom are so touchy that they don't regard the diaspora as their brethren to discuss politics.They aren'too alarmed about anything.Call it complacency.What is needed is for a leader to nurture the people feed them on a certain diet of the cause & keep feeding them the truth until they are weaned out to fend forthemselves.It's a mammoth task but it can be done as mentioned by example.What we saw there was all apprehension about things about Macedonia.They have given up before they have started.

[Phoenix]

I think there's an alarming disconnect between those in the Republic and those of us in the diaspora.
The two groups are divided by what in reality is, one hell of a chasm.
This divide is multifaceted. It appears in political forms, economic, philosophical and even to some degree cultural.
Any of those issues viewed singularly is a huge problem, let alone packaged up Macedonian 'style'.

Most here have touched on these problems but they must be deeply investigated before any 'hearts and minds' or 'empowerment' strategies can be implemented.

Until both sides have an understanding of each other's problems we'll continue to have this disconnect and our interests will never be aligned.

A clear set of priorities need to be established from both groups and those ideas that converge need to be acted on in a bipartisan and expedient manner before moving to the next item on the list.

[makedonche]

I think there's an alarming disconnect between those in the Republic and those of us in the diaspora.
The two groups are divided by what in reality is, one hell of a chasm.
This divide is multifaceted. It appears in political forms, economic, philosophical and even to some degree cultural.
Any of those issues viewed singularly is a huge problem, let alone packaged up Macedonian 'style'.

Most here have touched on these problems but they must be deeply investigated before any 'hearts and minds' or 'empowerment' strategies can be implemented.

Until both sides have an understanding of each other's problems we'll continue to have this disconnect and our interests will never be aligned.

A clear set of priorities need to be established from both groups and those ideas that converge need to be acted on in a bipartisan and expedient manner before moving to the next item on the list.

Phoenix
Precisely.....and might I add "will need to be adequately funded".

[makedonche]

Lead by example Makedonche - if you have better or different ideas then noone is stopping you. You're well respected here and your contributions are always appreciated.

Vangelovski
Understood.

@Ramo....I would encourage you to re-engage in this debate/discussion so that those of us in the diaspora can better understand the situation, you can start by giving us an insight into what you believe Macedonia and Macedonians in the Republic need or want...particularly things that will bring us closer together and close this imposed "chasm" between us.
I await a response!

[Risto the Great]

A clear set of priorities need to be established from both groups and those ideas that converge need to be acted on in a bipartisan and expedient manner before moving to the next item on the list.

The problem is all the elephants in the room. How much can anyone interested in real liberty for Macedonians ignore all of the ideas or notions that are completely unacceptable within a framework framed upon freedom and liberty.

Should we help them with donations or something?

Maybe a nation that provides jobs based on merit rather than political affiliations is a good one. The problem that comes to mind is that many of the ethnic Albanians are far more willing to work than the Macedonians who feel they are owed something. So that could backfire.

Perhaps we should list the issues in Macedonia that need the most urgent attention in our minds.

[Gocka]

Vangelovski
Understood.

@Ramo....I would encourage you to re-engage in this debate/discussion so that those of us in the diaspora can better understand the situation, you can start by giving us an insight into what you believe Macedonia and Macedonians in the Republic need or want...particularly things that will bring us closer together and close this imposed "chasm" between us.
I await a response!

He made it pretty clear that he doesn't care what we think or feel, and that we in no way shape or form can or should influence anything in the Republic. He said they need more money and jobs in the near term, and that seems to be what the majority of Macedonians want, more money, and more jobs, although the jobs one confuses me because most of them decline many job opportunities that already exist, so I guess what they really want is not more jobs but more jobs that pay very well but dont involve a lot of labor.