My heartfelt "adieu" to a failing Macedonia

[Gocka]

RTG

I share your sentiment 100%, accept I have not given up yet. I am also sick of them, every time you lend a hand they try and take your arm, every time you give an opinion you are told to mind your own business. Even though I was born in Macedonia, to them I am still an American, and my views and opinion have little to no bearing.

I like you have tried to organize business forums, tried to educate farmers on modern techniques, I can go on and on, most of the time I'm left like you looking like a complete idiot.

I can understand Volk to a point, but I also have to say that there is a difference between being defeatist, and honest. The truth hurts and our truth as Macedonians hurts a lot. For the time being there is no Macedonia, its officially FYROM, not by name but by attitude. There are little pockets in Macedonia, but like the right of the article said, they are not sure what they are doing or what they want, they are following a fad, rather then a goal.

If we cant find the will and the determination, to stand up to a group of backwards, terrorists who are controlling our nation, who only recently stepped up to the nineteenth century. What hope is there to stand up to bigger and stronger forces?

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. They have to too easy, not economically but mentally. Its too easy in Macedonia to live a life disconnected from reality, and from consequences. Its only now starting to catch up to them, just wait, we will be in 10x worse shape then greece is today.

They refuse to accept help (that does not come in coins and cash), the refuse to do anything themselves, just wait until the region destabilizes again, we will get squashed like a bug and no one will know what hit them.

I still plan to go to Macedonia soon, and see what I can do but I dont have very high expectations.

[Volk]

Been there 5 times in the last 10 years. I can see and am honest enough to talk about it. Couldn't give a shit about ancient Macedonia. More concerned with future Macedonia.

The organisations offering help in 2001 were told everything was under control. We can all see it was under control. It just wasn't by Macedonians.

The educated judges were probably right in the way they interpreted the fundamentally flawed constitution. But they refuse to condemn it. Piss weak Macedonians. That is what I'm talking about. They haven't risen, nor the poor. They're accepting their 21st century version of slavery.

If it wasn't for the MTO, your beloved UMD wouldn't even be trying to talk tough on the extremely odd occasion when they depart from being DPmNE fanbois.

I was trying to organize Macedonian IT professionals some work. The response was so pitiful that I I was embarrassed to talk to my clients for months. I was organising massive investments in the wine industry. But it felt like I was dealing with very powerful children. Mentally unstable.

While other friends of yours were trying to sort out Rann or something, I was indeed trying to make change. But yeah, I'm pretty sick of them now. They need to want it for themselves. You can lead a horse to water, but it shouldn't be going to Greece and showing its arse while hiding it's identity.

So what are you doing other than ringing up your relatives?

In fact the situation was let out of control in 2001 by the national traitor Ljupco Georgievski and his hench woman Dosta Dimovska. The plan was to divide Macedonia in case you missed it. I am not sure which avenues the organisations you speak of took (one can assume direct government contact), however if they contacted the army itself, they may have received a different response.

I dont care if you do or dont care about ancient Macedonia, I was answering your question regarding identity which in my opinion is an integral part of that.

My beloved UMD, lol... I like to say I at least morally support all Macedonian organisations that are working for positive outcomes for the country. Each have different roles.. Which why the manic depressant attitude here disturbs me.

Without specifically knowing what you are referring to, I will point out this: I do not see them as 'they' because we are all in it together, being Macedonian. Perhaps it is best to find like minded talented individuals rather than working with farm animals.

I am sorry in hearing of your attempted yet failed efforts. Doing business in Macedonia can be quite difficult and there are cultural barriers that need to be overcome. I have been working in the IT sector closely in Macedonia for around 5 years, as well as some other (some failed) ventures. I have experienced big setbacks however I have clear goals and am working towards them.

[Risto the Great]

If you have goals in IT, work with the Chinese and Indians. They are willing to work and have less sense of self importance.

[George S.]

macedonians wre not goig to change thereis no gt up n go.
you have to deal wuth others who can.

[Volk]

If you have goals in IT, work with the Chinese and Indians. They are willing to work and have less sense of self importance.

Sorry I am not Chinese or Indian.. I would rather spend a bit more energy and find the right talented Macedonians for the job.

[Risto the Great]

Sorry I am not Chinese or Indian.. I would rather spend a bit more energy and find the right talented Macedonians for the job.

It will be a LOT more energy. Once you find them, you can then spend the next lifetime convincing them you're doing them a favour. And even then they will be thinking you're scamming them out of the real money.

I'm not Chinese or Indian either. But I like their work ethic and acceptance that they are only as good as their last job. Think about it.

[Volk]

It will be a LOT more energy. Once you find them, you can then spend the next lifetime convincing them you're doing them a favour. And even then they will be thinking you're scamming them out of the real money.

I'm not Chinese or Indian either. But I like their work ethic and acceptance that they are only as good as their last job. Think about it.

Already been found Risto, have been working with some great people for over a year.. I have had worse experiences with Indians truth be told. All about finding the right people.. That mentality you mentioned is prevalent, however there are exceptions and some very talented people.

[Risto the Great]

There are always exceptions. Your connection with RoMacedonia is far more substantial and I suspect you can vet potential contractors in a more unorthodox and probably more effective manner.

It doesn't even occur to most RoMacedonians that there can be Macedonians abroad who wish to do them a favour. But then again, my experiences in RoMacedonia tells me I would be better off and more respected being any other ethnicity.

Try being a Macedonian from Egej in the Diaspora and see how welcome you are or how Macedonian you are treated there. Then try offering them golden opportunities and see how they are received. I'm done with that approach nowadays.

Given a choice out of Indians and Chinese, I prefer Chinese (assuming excellent English proficiency).

[George S.]

taking a risk by giving them chances.How many times have we heard the catch cry never again will we use a painter,tilist ect for our house they should havew done this or that,
but you are still willing to give macedonians a chance.Wheras people like rtg has seen it all before.As long as you achieve your goals it does matter to you to use macedonians. To us we are the diaspora we take people & leave them as they seem fit.the use of macedonians doesn't seem to worry us as we can get the best man for the job but the risk is allways there with any ethnicity.

[Big Bad Sven]

Look, we know the macedonians in ROM have it tough, and they have been let down by polical parties and 'leaders'. Things are bleak there with no job prospects and daily shsiptar arrogance and terrorism.

But for gods sake they need to do something. Only they can change their destiny. We can sit on these forums until the end of time debating what needs to be done, or that we are too negative etc. But it wont change a thing.

The way i see it we cant let the macedonians off. They have been lazy. We have seen the Egyptians kick out the Muslim brotherhood, we are seeing Syrians fighting the muslim brotherhood now.

Look at the Kurds, they are getting no support from anyone and are getting massacred by the 'rebels' but they are being brave and fighting back. They are getting support from no one while the 'rebels' are getting support from almost every one else.

Even closer to home the serbs, croats and bosniaks have shown more heart and desire to survive.

Some times i think because we received independence pretty easy with out any wars we have taken indepdane for granted.

The reality is macedonia is the dead zone, its going nowhere fast. The way things are going in 20 years time i honestly think the maedonian government (along with support of the people) will ask to join bulgaria - which will be the end of the macedonian nation and identity. The macedonians need to stand up and stop this from happening, but from what i have seen and read, it seems like they have already given up (before any real fighting has begun).

Btw in regards to that article: you know you have problems when foreigners are so depressed and frustrated with the 'macedonian issue' and leave the country.

[George S.]

perhaps they have given up all hope oif ever salvaging what's left We have seen a lot of cmplacency & inaction on the rom govt.You have inaction after inaction.It's too late to do anything.

[Gocka]

Btw in regards to that article: you know you have problems when foreigners are so depressed and frustrated with the 'Macedonian issue' and leave the country.

HAHAHA good one. That really cracked me up,it should be nominated for quote of the year.

Then sadly after I stopped laughing I felt like crying. Even foreigners are saying "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU PEOPLE DO ANYTHING".

I do agree with RTG, I find ROM Macedonians impossible to work with. They are never happy with anything you give them, and always seem to think you are screwing them, their sense of entitlement is unparalleled.

They hate the diaspora. I think it's jealousy, but I could be wrong I suppose. They just dont want anything to do with the diaspora, and even to a degree with Macedonians in general. RTG is right, we would all get a lot more respect, and be treated much better if we were anything except Macedonians.

That is my main reason for wanting to move to the Republic, because from the Diaspora, its impossible to have any impact.

[Volk]

HAHAHA good one. That really cracked me up,it should be nominated for quote of the year.

Then sadly after I stopped laughing I felt like crying. Even foreigners are saying "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU PEOPLE DO ANYTHING".

I do agree with RTG, I find ROM Macedonians impossible to work with. They are never happy with anything you give them, and always seem to think you are screwing them, their sense of entitlement is unparalleled.

They hate the diaspora. I think it's jealousy, but I could be wrong I suppose. They just dont want anything to do with the diaspora, and even to a degree with Macedonians in general. RTG is right, we would all get a lot more respect, and be treated much better if we were anything except Macedonians.

That is my main reason for wanting to move to the Republic, because from the Diaspora, its impossible to have any impact.

Have you seen the way Macedonians from the Diaspora in Macedonia act? In general they are seljaci with pari and are an embarrassment. They think they above everyone and the way they generally conduct themselves is disgraceful.

For actual intellectuals from the diaspora, many are in government institutions are right now.

[Gocka]

Have you seen the way Macedonians from the Diaspora in Macedonia act? In general they are seljaci with pari and are an embarrassment. They think they above everyone and the way they generally conduct themselves is disgraceful.

For actual intellectuals from the diaspora, many are in government institutions are right now.

That is true to a degree. Many from the diaspora, particularly from Australia, really do act like a bunch of seljaci, but just as we generalize them (ROM Maks) they generalize us (diaspora).

Generally though, my experiences with them are not so good. Macedonians in my opinion are jealous by nature. They dont like to see other succeed, partly because of a strong rekla kazala culture, but also because of this deep rooted jealousy and greed. They see Macedonians in the diaspora as successful, and thus dislike us, regardless of whether we are or aren't more "successful" then them. Most Macedonians are difficult to work with because they cant stomach anyone making more money then them, especially if that someone is there superior. They always feel like they are smarter then you, and that they deserve your job and your money more then you. "Abe onaj seljakon ke mi kazvit so da pram, do vcera bese naj golem seljak pa sega my trgna srejkata i ke mi se prajt golem, ja da imav takva srekja ke bev duplo nad nego, ama nema srekja be nemam srejka".

Even the goat herder thinks he knows more then you and can do it better then you and deserves it more then you. There is no sense of hierarchy in Macedonia. Everyone thinks they belong at the top, but sadly this mentality only translates to money, not to rights. When money is on the line they fight tooth and nail for as much as they can get, but rights, they dont care about those they aren't as important.

If only I had a dollar for every time I've had someone say to me. Vie Amerikancista, tamu razmazeni vo Amerika mislite deka sve znajte. Tamu vo Amerika razperden ke mi kazvis mene so da pram, vi dal gospod sreka da izbegate od ovde, I sega mislite samo vie znajte, epa i nie znajme.

Only in Macedonia is it possible for people with so little, money, rights, future, to be so prideful and arrogant, but only when it comes to work and money.

If we could turn nationalism into a paying job, they be fighting each other in the streets to decide who is the biggest patriot.

There you have it I think I just solved the Macedonian problem. Turn patriotism into a profession.

[Soldier of Macedon]

For actual intellectuals from the diaspora, many are in government institutions are right now.

How many? Can you name them?