My heartfelt "adieu" to a failing Macedonia

[julie]

Its a sad day when a foreigner leaves a country he has no ties to and provides an unbiased critique of the bleakness. I agree with his article, he was there, observed, lived, befriended people.

Over the years, I have come to realise how true the saying is ...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink....

Every positive hand of help is seen with scorn, you are damned if you do, you are damned if you don't. It is always thrown back in a negative manner. Off topic, maybe, but I was attacked on fb by a RoMacedonian for liking and commenting on the Melbourne gathering, how good it was to see the Kutlesh sonce and commemorate a sad day for our nation - nowhere was the Macedonian government to be seen - aside from Todor Petrov, and a small handful of pirin Macedonians that travelled to RoM to burn the Treaty of Bucharest in protest. Watching the you tube clip, you see RoMacedonians not even stopping as they walk by, too intent on reaching the local Kafana. I digress - the woman attacked me told me to go to Macedonia for a cup of coffee, how pathetic we are in the diaspora, why? Because we marked that sad day.

I am sick to death of hand holding and softly softly approach - I was all for "educating" and being positive, but am a realist. For RoMacedonians they don't want the freedom, they have never had to fight for it, there concerns are $$$ and jealousy, of laying blame for their own pathetic situations. It is the slave mentality that Gotse Delchev spoke up, that is our biggest hurdle, and I agree with Gocka, for RoMacedonians to create civil action and try and enforce some form of pro active change, patriosm needs to be a paid profession in RoMacedonians. It actually does not make me sad anymore, I get angry with their incompetent subservience to the dollar. The jealousy and hatred is so steep within them it consumes them to the point their identity is a nation that is not an issue.

I DO give up. I am over the growing anonymosity and self division of our people. ANd it saddens me to say this, the writing is on the wall for Macedonia. And it will be coming a lot sooner than we think. It is RoMacedonians wish for this to eventuate, because after all, if we negotiate our name to enter an organisation that is hell bent on the destruction of the country, and another one that has created economic disaster for being an elite member, they will get the gold money tree, And money will fall from the sky. They are delusional with apathy, a paradox, yes, it is so extreme that nothing will move or change their mind set.

ANother saying - it aint over until the fat lady sings.....the song has begun, and we can thank RoMacedonians for that. Idiots

[George S.]

to all & sundry who made shit comments don't write the macedonian people off yet.you fall into a trap of overgeneralisation if you rely on it too much.People shouldn't be written off so suddenly when there is a glimmer of hope somewhere.I have seen the people in rom & its all too easy to say a lot of negative things.But you could also apply some things to the diaspora.So don't rush to conclussions .For goodness sake show more compassion towards your macedonian neighbour & stop harbouring all those negartivities that seperate us.Loo on it with positive zest to change things together.I also pitty the macedonian people as i said don't give up hope yet your day is comingf a sinilar future st elijahs day.illinden so don't write us off yet,give us a chance,we all can't clever like everyone else.Above all elso have love for each other if you don't have that you got nothing. so it say in the bible.

[makedonche]

...And From Inside Macedonia...a Similar perspective!


Date: 09.02.2013, 17:59

Despair of modern Macedonians

Tony Naunovski

How much and (I) is rationally painful and unacceptable, despondency among Macedonians is very fact of their current self-awareness. The objective cursory overview of Macedonian collective consciousness shows that this RM for these twenty years - especially after 2001 - Has ruined the key milestones and landmarks in self-consciousness, as an individual, so the more the level of collective existence in everyday life. Lost faith in the political parties and institutions, which, unfortunately, are identified with the same particised leadership has a complex causal relationship. However, while in Macedonia, among other things, is deformed and the democratic influence those powerhouses decision makers (political parties), no other quick way to influence but steady pressure on them with proposals, requirements, concepts, visions. Being the structures inside the party and in public media discourse. If anyone politically engaged Macedonian daily within the party structures outlines requirements to start solving the big problems of RM, party elites still have to change defetistichkiot principle of operation and political action.

Even in drastically less favorable historical contexts and geopolitical positions, Macedonians lost their faith in their country, for freedom and for their own piece of land! Remember nedobroenite heroes in all historical periods in this area - do you th they were despondent and without faith in their ideals? State is created and maintained painstakingly by reckless sacrifice the paradigm that gives meaning to their lives! What we were before, and it did?! Where disappeared enthusiasm, assertive, and know that we can make Macedonia a country?! Enough already resignation, melancholy, peace with injustice - we are much more than what the propaganda engineering done for the past ten years! Whatever `s! Of all the incompetent politicians, greedy capitalists of all, the opportunists, Sorosoids! They just destroyed raskrileniot national spirit of the early creation of modern Macedonia - and today, distributed system through state institutions, state universities (especially UKIM) media - they promote defeatism, cynicism, unproductive forms of skepticism, malice, they create antimakedonskoto opinion! And just because they can not be realized numerous projects in phases can revitalize energy and faith in the future of the Macedonians.

There is nothing that can not be changed - and evidence is just damned past twenty years RM! Who twenty years ago and was able to assume this horror, this cruel our daily reality? Could someone and then do not imagine that amid sovereign Macedonia before guards against legal obligations not respond will put the green flag of al-Qaeda front organization (case in Struga) is forcibly preventing construction of churches (cases Oktisi Pestalevo, Skopje Kale), the middle of Skopje daily to beat children, or that (former) terrorists will become ministers, directors of state institutions (instead of being in jail)?!

And our time is running out, Macedonians! From all sides `s harder coming information and warnings that if not soon stop antimacedonianism trends in RM will remain without this state! Objective analyzes long have located key sources destabilizaciite system - but the solutions are also identified. If you fail try for consensus All-Macedonian (for rogue mercenaries), reconciliation between Macedonians must occur independently of political parties through the conscious articulation of the necessity of the historical moment for a new start state. Practically, through stable parliamentary majority imperative given the mandate to start the process of strengthening the state. Geopolitical position continues to improve, NATO and the EU ever more faced with internal problems in perspective will weaken their negative impact on the national and state interests of the Macedonians. After contracting for military and police assistance and security cooperation with Bulgaria and Serbia, the beginning of the so-called legal annulment "Framework Agreement" can occur - whether by successively changing discriminatory laws that require a simple majority or by suddenly adopting a new constitution by a two-thirds majority, remains a matter of contract. In all specific models of modern democratic socio-political systems makes decisions Majority Assemblies. If they are not contrary to international law and conventions on human rights, they have the absolute legality.

Macedonian mine! Where is your ancient courage and confidence in yourself do you lose in just ten years dreams dodrzhaa not as Macedonians for centuries in this country and our piece of heaven?! Why are you allowed to destroy the ideals of their own free and democratic country, Macedonian state?! Today, you have to make fairest demystification of anti-Macedonian phrases imposed by enemies - that "a must" that "can not be otherwise," there was "no alternative" (for those policies that brought ruin before?). Today, you have to place the general dekanonizacija myths that nothing depends on ourselves (and up, of all of us!), And that "great powers" decide everything. ' And no greater curse than to believe the lies and propaganda that are powerless to decide on another crucial things in your state! The opposite was the first and last thought of the heroes in the bloody battles - a free and sovereign state that the Macedonians will decide for myself! We now, at the beginning of the 21st century, we need a large animal implanted (Instauratio Magna) - establishing a new major statehood! We Macedonians are sovereign over our reality, we have a totality - Macedonia! Our actions should not be a reaction to external influences on the RM, but some of Macedonian should have! And we know that the Macedonians is our present and should have - RM be a state according to the parameters of modern states. It is our mission! Macedonia is given to us as a covenant and material for our office! These tragic ten years are nothing compared to the prospect of eternity. Let's start again, to find the strength for a new start in this country!
#


Source......dnevnik online

[makedonche]

That is true to a degree. Many from the diaspora, particularly from Australia, really do act like a bunch of seljaci, but just as we generalize them (ROM Maks) they generalize us (diaspora).

Generally though, my experiences with them are not so good. Macedonians in my opinion are jealous by nature. They dont like to see other succeed, partly because of a strong rekla kazala culture, but also because of this deep rooted jealousy and greed. They see Macedonians in the diaspora as successful, and thus dislike us, regardless of whether we are or aren't more "successful" then them. Most Macedonians are difficult to work with because they cant stomach anyone making more money then them, especially if that someone is there superior. They always feel like they are smarter then you, and that they deserve your job and your money more then you. "Abe onaj seljakon ke mi kazvit so da pram, do vcera bese naj golem seljak pa sega my trgna srejkata i ke mi se prajt golem, ja da imav takva srekja ke bev duplo nad nego, ama nema srekja be nemam srejka".

Even the goat herder thinks he knows more then you and can do it better then you and deserves it more then you. There is no sense of hierarchy in Macedonia. Everyone thinks they belong at the top, but sadly this mentality only translates to money, not to rights. When money is on the line they fight tooth and nail for as much as they can get, but rights, they dont care about those they aren't as important.

If only I had a dollar for every time I've had someone say to me. Vie Amerikancista, tamu razmazeni vo Amerika mislite deka sve znajte. Tamu vo Amerika razperden ke mi kazvis mene so da pram, vi dal gospod sreka da izbegate od ovde, I sega mislite samo vie znajte, epa i nie znajme.

Only in Macedonia is it possible for people with so little, money, rights, future, to be so prideful and arrogant, but only when it comes to work and money.

If we could turn nationalism into a paying job, they be fighting each other in the streets to decide who is the biggest patriot.

There you have it I think I just solved the Macedonian problem. Turn patriotism into a profession.

Gocka
As funny as it may sound....it may well hold more truth than humour!

[Risto the Great]

We are all human beings, I know some of the pettiness my grandparents brought to Australia. I also know their core values. If I was raised in RoMacedonia, I'm sure I would be king of the sarcastic and jealous bastards.

It is easy to judge from afar, particularly so with the benefits of financial independence.

But ultimately, the nation of Macedonia is made up of its people. And given everyone there regards leaving Macedonia as the highest level of achievement, there is no chance for a nation with that mentality.

So many educated people in the middle of Europe with cheap labour rates, the nation should be going crazy with work. Yet it languishes. Says something about the people whichever way you look at it. Says a lot actually. It is hard not to think about Macedonia as the dimmest member of the European family.

[Soldier of Macedon]

For actual intellectuals from the diaspora, many are in government institutions are right now.

How many? Can you name them?

[Gocka]

Have you seen the way Macedonians from the Diaspora in Macedonia act? In general they are seljaci with pari and are an embarrassment. They think they above everyone and the way they generally conduct themselves is disgraceful.

For actual intellectuals from the diaspora, many are in government institutions are right now.

That is true to a degree. Many from the diaspora, particularly from Australia, really do act like a bunch of seljaci, but just as we generalize them (ROM Maks) they generalize us (diaspora).

Generally though, my experiences with them are not so good. Macedonians in my opinion are jealous by nature. They dont like to see other succeed, partly because of a strong rekla kazala culture, but also because of this deep rooted jealousy and greed. They see Macedonians in the diaspora as successful, and thus dislike us, regardless of whether we are or aren't more "successful" then them. Most Macedonians are difficult to work with because they cant stomach anyone making more money then them, especially if that someone is there superior. They always feel like they are smarter then you, and that they deserve your job and your money more then you. "Abe onaj seljakon ke mi kazvit so da pram, do vcera bese naj golem seljak pa sega my trgna srejkata i ke mi se prajt golem, ja da imav takva srekja ke bev duplo nad nego, ama nema srekja be nemam srejka".

Even the goat herder thinks he knows more then you and can do it better then you and deserves it more then you. There is no sense of hierarchy in Macedonia. Everyone thinks they belong at the top, but sadly this mentality only translates to money, not to rights. When money is on the line they fight tooth and nail for as much as they can get, but rights, they dont care about those they aren't as important.

If only I had a dollar for every time I've had someone say to me. Vie Amerikancista, tamu razmazeni vo Amerika mislite deka sve znajte. Tamu vo Amerika razperden ke mi kazvis mene so da pram, vi dal gospod sreka da izbegate od ovde, I sega mislite samo vie znajte, epa i nie znajme.

Only in Macedonia is it possible for people with so little, money, rights, future, to be so prideful and arrogant, but only when it comes to work and money.

If we could turn nationalism into a paying job, they be fighting each other in the streets to decide who is the biggest patriot.

There you have it I think I just solved the Macedonian problem. Turn patriotism into a profession.

[Volk]

HAHAHA good one. That really cracked me up,it should be nominated for quote of the year.

Then sadly after I stopped laughing I felt like crying. Even foreigners are saying "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU PEOPLE DO ANYTHING".

I do agree with RTG, I find ROM Macedonians impossible to work with. They are never happy with anything you give them, and always seem to think you are screwing them, their sense of entitlement is unparalleled.

They hate the diaspora. I think it's jealousy, but I could be wrong I suppose. They just dont want anything to do with the diaspora, and even to a degree with Macedonians in general. RTG is right, we would all get a lot more respect, and be treated much better if we were anything except Macedonians.

That is my main reason for wanting to move to the Republic, because from the Diaspora, its impossible to have any impact.

Have you seen the way Macedonians from the Diaspora in Macedonia act? In general they are seljaci with pari and are an embarrassment. They think they above everyone and the way they generally conduct themselves is disgraceful.

For actual intellectuals from the diaspora, many are in government institutions are right now.

[Gocka]

Btw in regards to that article: you know you have problems when foreigners are so depressed and frustrated with the 'Macedonian issue' and leave the country.

HAHAHA good one. That really cracked me up,it should be nominated for quote of the year.

Then sadly after I stopped laughing I felt like crying. Even foreigners are saying "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU PEOPLE DO ANYTHING".

I do agree with RTG, I find ROM Macedonians impossible to work with. They are never happy with anything you give them, and always seem to think you are screwing them, their sense of entitlement is unparalleled.

They hate the diaspora. I think it's jealousy, but I could be wrong I suppose. They just dont want anything to do with the diaspora, and even to a degree with Macedonians in general. RTG is right, we would all get a lot more respect, and be treated much better if we were anything except Macedonians.

That is my main reason for wanting to move to the Republic, because from the Diaspora, its impossible to have any impact.

[George S.]

perhaps they have given up all hope oif ever salvaging what's left We have seen a lot of cmplacency & inaction on the rom govt.You have inaction after inaction.It's too late to do anything.

[Big Bad Sven]

Look, we know the macedonians in ROM have it tough, and they have been let down by polical parties and 'leaders'. Things are bleak there with no job prospects and daily shsiptar arrogance and terrorism.

But for gods sake they need to do something. Only they can change their destiny. We can sit on these forums until the end of time debating what needs to be done, or that we are too negative etc. But it wont change a thing.

The way i see it we cant let the macedonians off. They have been lazy. We have seen the Egyptians kick out the Muslim brotherhood, we are seeing Syrians fighting the muslim brotherhood now.

Look at the Kurds, they are getting no support from anyone and are getting massacred by the 'rebels' but they are being brave and fighting back. They are getting support from no one while the 'rebels' are getting support from almost every one else.

Even closer to home the serbs, croats and bosniaks have shown more heart and desire to survive.

Some times i think because we received independence pretty easy with out any wars we have taken indepdane for granted.

The reality is macedonia is the dead zone, its going nowhere fast. The way things are going in 20 years time i honestly think the maedonian government (along with support of the people) will ask to join bulgaria - which will be the end of the macedonian nation and identity. The macedonians need to stand up and stop this from happening, but from what i have seen and read, it seems like they have already given up (before any real fighting has begun).

Btw in regards to that article: you know you have problems when foreigners are so depressed and frustrated with the 'macedonian issue' and leave the country.

[George S.]

taking a risk by giving them chances.How many times have we heard the catch cry never again will we use a painter,tilist ect for our house they should havew done this or that,
but you are still willing to give macedonians a chance.Wheras people like rtg has seen it all before.As long as you achieve your goals it does matter to you to use macedonians. To us we are the diaspora we take people & leave them as they seem fit.the use of macedonians doesn't seem to worry us as we can get the best man for the job but the risk is allways there with any ethnicity.

[Risto the Great]

There are always exceptions. Your connection with RoMacedonia is far more substantial and I suspect you can vet potential contractors in a more unorthodox and probably more effective manner.

It doesn't even occur to most RoMacedonians that there can be Macedonians abroad who wish to do them a favour. But then again, my experiences in RoMacedonia tells me I would be better off and more respected being any other ethnicity.

Try being a Macedonian from Egej in the Diaspora and see how welcome you are or how Macedonian you are treated there. Then try offering them golden opportunities and see how they are received. I'm done with that approach nowadays.

Given a choice out of Indians and Chinese, I prefer Chinese (assuming excellent English proficiency).

[Volk]

It will be a LOT more energy. Once you find them, you can then spend the next lifetime convincing them you're doing them a favour. And even then they will be thinking you're scamming them out of the real money.

I'm not Chinese or Indian either. But I like their work ethic and acceptance that they are only as good as their last job. Think about it.

Already been found Risto, have been working with some great people for over a year.. I have had worse experiences with Indians truth be told. All about finding the right people.. That mentality you mentioned is prevalent, however there are exceptions and some very talented people.

[Risto the Great]

Sorry I am not Chinese or Indian.. I would rather spend a bit more energy and find the right talented Macedonians for the job.

It will be a LOT more energy. Once you find them, you can then spend the next lifetime convincing them you're doing them a favour. And even then they will be thinking you're scamming them out of the real money.

I'm not Chinese or Indian either. But I like their work ethic and acceptance that they are only as good as their last job. Think about it.