Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[Voltron]

Those are Grade A Turks Razer. They happen to be Uzbeks. But more or less the same look is found with Kyrgz, Ughurs, etc.

I dont think Bulgars were Turkic either.

[Razer]

I think modern Turks are very different from the native Turkic people in Siberia.

Native Turkic people










Modern Turks from Anatolia:

[Voltron]

yes they are, thats why they are called Turkish and not Turkic.
The Turkish people today are the natives of Anatolia culturally assimilated to the Turk ethnos. They lost their Turkic feature long time ago. Its a long way from the Altai mountains to here. They were absorbed by a lot of people. Just like how Bulgars were absorbed by the Thracian and Slav elements of the Balkans.

[Razer]

Exactly. It's nice to finally read here some real history, and not pseudo-history.

[Risto the Great]

RtG,I would disagree with this because Macedonian language was also introduced to the Macedonian people after being slavicized,it wasn't their native language.I think the chronology would be Ancient Macedonian language--->Latin (after Macedonia fell to the Romans)--->Greek (after Byzantine Empire separated from Rome and introduced Orthodox Christianity as the official religion and Greek as the lingua franca of the empire)--->Old Slavonic and Macedonian after the arrival of the Slavs till this day.Historically speaking I think this would be more accurate.Still,it's undeniable that it wasn't the Bulgars' native tongue and they adopted it from the Slavs,since Old Slavonic is the forefather of every South Slavic language.

Dragan, you have given no indication of what the nature of the ancient Macedonian language was. Yet you are more than willing to embrace the notion that Macedonians adopted the language of a minority of people that possibly found there way into the region in the 6th century. I would not discount the notion that ancient Macedonians were already speaking a language that was similar to the language of Kiril & Metodi.

[Risto the Great]

@ Risto the Great (Re: Gross Debt)

I have no motives to lie regarding anything. I don't look at it as Bulgaria VS Macedonia - I'm happy tourism have also improved in Macedonia and I hope to visit it myself one day.

Gross debt is a complex topic and we can talk for it for hours and days. Yes, the gross debt have risen to $36.15 billion, but the public dept has fallen to 16.2% of GDP (from around 80%) 10 years ago. Those are normal figures for a country like Bulgaria, which is developing.

You seem to have a very negative opinion about the EU...Why is that? I also have some negative views about it, but at the end of the day I think it's better to be in it, than out.

Debt is debt, it is not that complicated. It has more than tripled in the EU money grab. It has happened consistently among all new EU member nations. It is bad debt. Not "good debt". There are no means to repay.

Macedonia has done better by being out of the EU. It is controlling its debt and can actually be more attractive than any EU member state in some areas.

I do not like the EU for the following reasons:

- artificial debt that offers no enduring useful benefit.
- complete loss of sovereignty of a nation

Not much more to add.

[Voltron]

Dragan, you have given no indication of what the nature of the ancient Macedonian language was.

Risto, I think it would be fair to say it was Greek.

[Razer]

Dragan, you have given no indication of what the nature of the ancient Macedonian language was. Yet you are more than willing to embrace the notion that Macedonians adopted the language of a minority of people that possibly found there way into the region in the 6th century. I would not discount the notion that ancient Macedonians were already speaking a language that was similar to the language of Kiril & Metodi.

What you're saying simply has no valid historical ground. By the 6th century the ancient Macedonians were already a tiny minority, far outnumbered by the Slavsc, Bulgars are others. And also, you seem to forget that the alphabet we know today as Cyrillic is very different from what Cyril and Methody created.

Here's the Glagolitic, created by Cyril and Methody:




And here's the so called Old Slavonic, aka the "Cyrilic", developed in Bulgaria by the disciples of Cyril and Methody:

[Razer]

Debt is debt, it is not that complicated. It has more than tripled in the EU money grab. It has happened consistently among all new EU member nations. It is bad debt. Not "good debt". There are no means to repay.

Macedonia has done better by being out of the EU. It is controlling its debt and can actually be more attractive than any EU member state in some areas.

I do not like the EU for the following reasons:

- artificial debt that offers no enduring useful benefit.
- complete loss of sovereignty of a nation

Not much more to add.

I also don't like debt, but let us be realistic - in today's world countries are forced with it in order to develop. This is the sad reality, but what can we do - it's how the system works, at least for now. Look at the almost 9 trillion dept of the UK, 15 of the US. Germany and France - close to 5 trillion. And I personally think that Macedonia can benefit from the EU.

[DraganOfStip]

You're obviously in total denial. And you need to learn some history mate, because you're embarrassing yourself big time. Let's take a closer examination of this photo...



1. The signs they hold are not in any kind of Asian, but in Arabic.

2. Yes, they are holding the Islamic flag because the religion of Volga Bulgar was Islam. They accepted it in the 10th century, long before the Mongols ever appeared, who's original religion was a mix of shamanism, Buddhism and terrorism.

3. Out of 8 visible people in the photo, you pick up the one that looks the most "Asian" and run whit that as a "proof". This is ridiculous mate. He's clearly wearing a glasses so you can't even see his eyes and so what if he has a bear? And what about the rest people in the photo? None of them look Asian to me.

And also, even if one of them had an Asian look that doesn't prove anything. In fact, I'm sure some of them do look Asian because the Volga Bulgars were assimilated into the Mongol empire.

Please learn Bulgarian history before you start making crazy claims. Bulgars were either Turkic, or Iranian. This is what historians and scientists say, not me.

Why are you getting things mixed up here,Razer?

1.I never said the signs they're holding are Asiatic,read my post carefully.It is their LOOKS that are Asiatic,are you on the same wave length with me?
2.

They accepted it in the 10th century, long before the Mongols ever appeared

Now who knows jack shit about history?The Proto-Mongols date as far as 7th century B.C.,producing the two subsequent Mongolic tribes and kingdoms,Xianbei and Wuhuan,with the first having it's peak in 2nd century.That's like 8 CENTURIES before they 'ever appeared' as you say.I suggest you take your own advice and do some reading before posting something and making a fool out of yourself.
3.Last time I checked,'terrorism' wasn't a religion,but then again I may be wrong...
4.None of the men I was referring to wear glasses,maybe you need a pair.They're clearly Asiatic people,don't let your eyes be blurred by your beliefs.

And once more,as I previously stated - there are no Iranian people mentioned in the empire of the Huns,so that clearly rejects that theory,leaving the turko-mongoloid theory more plausible.

[DraganOfStip]

Dragan, you have given no indication of what the nature of the ancient Macedonian language was. Yet you are more than willing to embrace the notion that Macedonians adopted the language of a minority of people that possibly found there way into the region in the 6th century. I would not discount the notion that ancient Macedonians were already speaking a language that was similar to the language of Kiril & Metodi.

Risto,i was only referring to your words,Macedonian (the Slavic dialect of the time) was not the original language of the Macedonians of those days.The native language of the Macedonians was the Ancient Macedonian language.Then,the events that followed changed that,and they eventually accepted the Slavic language of the newcomers.Slavs assimilated many people back then,basically all the native people that lived south of the Danube and all the way to Salonika were assimilated and accepted Slavic culture and language,including other newcomers like the turko-mongoloid Bulgars.

[DraganOfStip]

Risto, I think it would be fair to say it was Greek.

Don't jump to conclusions,Voltron.I know you'd really like that,right?However,there is a limited amount of Ancient Macedonian words preserved today that simply aren't enough to clearly determine that issue.There is NOT ONE CLEAR SOURCE that supports your claim,no matter how much you want that to be true.

[Voltron]

Don't jump to conclusions,Voltron.I know you'd really like that,right?However,there is a limited amount of Ancient Macedonian words preserved today that simply aren't enough to clearly determine that issue.There is NOT ONE CLEAR SOURCE that supports your claim,no matter how much you want that to be true.

Dragan, there are two camps the one that say they were original Greek speakers and the other that says they were not. What they both agree on is that they knew the language nonethess being native speakers or lingua franca. So my answer is not wrong.

[Razer]

@ Dragan

I meant the appearance of the Mongols in Europe. Both kingdoms you mention existed long time before the Mongols of Genghis Khan and his Golden Horde. But dude - seriously - you're only making a fool of yourself with this "Bulgars were Mongols" crazy obsession, that's not even a theory in today's science. There is a Turkic theory, but this is completely different from Mongol. However, today the most scientifically and historically backed theory is the Iranian origin. DNA study also proved it.

Why you so obsessed with believing in lies?

[Razer]

@ Dragan

Can you give us any examples of ancient Macedonian? Some runic letters, manuscripts, etc? I don't mean Slavic, I mean ancient Macedonian.