Brian's Corner

[Vangelovski]

Toby, maybe we should make you show us your ID before we let you post on here any further?

[Brian]

Toby, maybe we should make you show us your ID before we let you post on here any further?

Am I talking to brick walls?

There's a time and place for secrecy and a time for disclosure.

Are we talking about peaceful protest to state your case or are we talking about a insurgent terrorist cell, so where's the harm in the id? When they are protesting (which was the purpose of joining this group, right?) would not the police film their faces and thus be able to identify them anyway?

Having a secretive means of joining, like on the MTO, allows anyone to join and pretend to be Macedonian if they want to. Have you not had to suss-out liars pretending to be something they're not on the MTO? And so what if you did when there is no real loss - we are not discussing specific strategies and action plans but the activist website would be, and that is something you don't want everyone knowing - no Albanians, no SDSM traitors and no any foreigners.

If it is true as RtG said that there are no activist groups in RoM then we are all wasting our time - brainstorming ideas is useless if there are no boots on the ground to make use of them. In which case then let's just talk about the news just as a conversation piece.

[Vangelovski]

Am I talking to brick walls?

There's a time and place for secrecy and a time for disclosure.

Are we talking about peaceful protest to state your case or are we talking about a insurgent terrorist cell, so where's the harm in the id? When they are protesting (which was the purpose of joining this group, right?) would not the police film their faces and thus be able to identify them anyway?

Having a secretive means of joining, like on the MTO, allows anyone to join and pretend to be Macedonian if they want to. Have you not had to suss-out liars pretending to be something they're not on the MTO? And so what if you did when there is no real loss - we are not discussing specific strategies and action plans but the activist website would be, and that is something you don't want everyone knowing - no Albanians, no SDSM traitors and no any foreigners.

If it is true as RtG said that there are no activist groups in RoM then we are all wasting our time - brainstorming ideas is useless if there are no boots on the ground to make use of them. In which case then let's just talk about the news just as a conversation piece.

You'd only show your ID to the committee members of MTO Inc. by emailing us a scanned copy of your drivers licence or passport. No need to post it publicly. That way we can confirm whether you are a Macedonian. What do you say Toby - gonna give us a copy of your ID?

[Brian]

You'd only show your ID to the committee members of MTO Inc. by emailing us a scanned copy of your drivers licence or passport. No need to post it publicly. That way we can confirm whether you are a Macedonian. What do you say Toby - gonna give us a copy of your ID?

Did you miss the part about...

Having a secretive means of joining, like on the MTO, allows anyone to join and pretend to be Macedonian if they want to. Have you not had to suss-out liars pretending to be something they're not on the MTO? And so what if you did when there is no real loss - we are not discussing specific strategies and action plans but the activist website would be, and that is something you don't want everyone knowing - no Albanians, no SDSM traitors and no any foreigners.

Don't mix babi and zabi. The MTO is a public forum with no secrete information so there is no 'greater good/reason' in ensuring every member is a trusted Macedonian by demanding ID's, especially when you are openly inviting non-Macedonians to be members. Get real, your arguments suck.

And enough with the Toby already - you've been harping on about it since day one with no evidence at all.

[Vangelovski]

Did you miss the part about...



Don't mix babi and zabi. The MTO is a public forum with no secrete information so there is no 'greater good/reason' in ensuring every member is a trusted Macedonian by demanding ID's, especially when you are openly inviting non-Macedonians to be members. Get real, your arguments suck.

And enough with the Toby already - you've been harping on about it since day one with no evidence at all.

Yeah, but Toby, I'm starting to think that maybe you should provide us with a copy of your ID regardless.

[Brian]

Yeah, but Toby, I'm starting to think that maybe you should provide us with a copy of your ID regardless.

Even when you don't ask it of non-Macedonians or anyone else for that matter?
Why/what have I done for you to single me out for individual discrimination?

To find out what...
- if I'm Macedonian or not?LOL.
What if I didn't have a typical Macedonian sounding surname, would it prove anything?

What if my dad was not Macedonian but my mum was and I had a surname like eg Smith, am I not Macedonian (enough?) in your book? Tell that to Julie and her sons.

What if I did have a surname like 'ski', 'ov', or 'ev' would it prove I'm Macedonian or could I be Bulgarian, Polish, Ukrainian, Belarus, Moldavian or Russian perhaps?

Would the look of my face prove I'm Macedonian or not - don't Macedonians have a wide range of faces and couldn't/don't some of the above other nationalities look Macedonian?

If I'm male or female?
Sometimes hard to tell from a dog's picture?LOL.
Are you hard up for a date from a feisty 'dog' that challenged you? - some guys like that in a girl.

What's the big secrete you're expecting to find out Vangelovski - if I'm OziMak?
Without a previous photo ID of OziMak to compare it to would whatever my photo looked like, of course so long as I'm not "Ronald MacDonald" ie Bozo the Clown avatar, tell you if I'm him or not?

Seriously, your logic sucks.

What would you possibly achieve by looking at my photo ID if anything at all? - to get your frustrations out if I say something to piss you off by egging my house? or scratching my car? or would you want to take me out into the NSW outback and do a 'Millat' (ie re Ivan Millat - serial murderer of backpacking tourist in NSW, in prison now) with that gun you've ordered from the USA on me?

What would you seeing my ID achieve?
Nothing, perhaps?
So why do you feel you need it?

I think you need RtG and SoM to have a quiet word with you over a cup of camomile tea to calm you down - you're not thinking clearly for some reason.

It's go 'camo' like in uniforms in it - you'll like it, give it a try.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

To find out what...
- if I'm Macedonian or not?LOL.
What if I didn't have a typical Macedonian sounding surname, would it prove anything?

What if my dad was not Macedonian but my mum was and I had a surname like eg Smith, am I not Macedonian (enough?) in your book? Tell that to Julie and her sons.

What if I did have a surname like 'ski', 'ov', or 'ev' would it prove I'm Macedonian or could I be Bulgarian, Polish, Ukrainian, Belarus, Moldavian or Russian perhaps?

Wait a minute Brian, you're contradicting some of your previous views once again. Here you say that the surname has no bearing on how Macedonian one is, yet I remember very clearly that you talked down upon people with altered names, deeming these people as somehow 'less' Macedonian.

You go on to say that the ski, ov and ev could indicate that one is perhaps Bulgarian, Russian, etc...but when I've made such an argument in the past, people holding your views on the surname issue (and perhaps even yourself) were quick to draw distinctions. So why the sudden change Brian? Is it because your views are currently under scrutiny by a number of people?

You seemed so certain of yourself in the 'altered name' thread, yet you have now turned 180 degrees when you find yourself in a position of defending.

Would the look of my face prove I'm Macedonian or not - don't Macedonians have a wide range of faces and couldn't/don't some of the above other nationalities look Macedonian?

Generally they have a boxhead.

[Vangelovski]

Toby, now I'm thinking it would be a good idea to have a copy of your ID in case some NWO scum come asking about you. Maybe they'll be able to finally shut you up.

[Brian]

Wait a minute Brian, you're contradicting some of your previous views

I beg to differ, I think you will not find anything where I have contradicted myself, but by all means if you think I have you can bring it up and I will try and explain why it really isn't a contradiction or concede, but that will never happen.

once again.

I really don't like it when people presupposition an argument because it says a fact has been establish and now there's only degrees to which are left to be discuss - it's not just you, mostly others - like saying were you really bad or extremely bad tells the reader you WERE bad but now just how bad. What if I wasn't bad?

Here you say that the surname has no bearing on how Macedonian one is, yet I remember very clearly that you talked down upon people with altered names, deeming these people as somehow 'less' Macedonian.

Your mixing babi and zabi - a wall has a straight side and so does the side of a box but in no way can the two things be considered the same thing because of only one slight similarity.

If for example if a Macedonian girl marries a Mr. Smith and she goes with tradition and takes his surname as her own then the children will also be Smiths. Many Macedonians, being a paternal society, many would view the children as not Macedonian but whatever the father was, eg Australian, but the general consensus here at the MTO is that the children could choose to identify with their Macedonian side and consider themselves as Macedonians. I'm not arguing if the general concusses view at the MTO is right or wrong, just that's what it is. All I'm saying is that despite the public opinion I've heard as to Vangelovski's point the argument is mute ie having my ID is useless.

My example in the preceding post was exactly this ie if YOU (MTO members, Vangelovski included) think that the children can choose to identify themselves as Macedonians and therefore should be considered by all as Macedonians then it would be possible for eg "Brian" to be a "Mr. Smith" AND ALSO be a Macedonian, thus if my pictured ID said Mr. Smith it would NOT help Vangelovski in establishing if I am Macedonian or nor, if indeed that was the reason for his wanting to see my ID.

As to do with Greek sounding surnames, if my dad WERE Greek and he had a name like opalopolous then I would probably also have the opalopolous surname. Following the same argument as above, then it would be theoretically possible to have an opolopulous surname and be Macedonian.

No contradiction so far.

Where the imposed names Vs. the above example begin to differ is that one is a surname by hereditary ie that's been our natural family name for generations and the other is an imposed name put on a family ie NOT anything anyone chose to call themselves.

In the thread you are referring to my point was you cannot really help much what someone imposes on you at gun point and that it may not be easy to remove that imposition if you are later held to ransom, eg I'm in Australia but my brother in Greece could get into trouble, but eventually times change an generations move on and that 'ransom' ceases to really exist, ie I don't think the Greeks will harm my 2nd or 3rd or later cousin there who could say "what do I know about what some idiot distant relative in Australia did".

With the removal of the reason of ransom the next question that naturally emerges is if you no longer have to have this name that someone put on your family by shoving a gun to your grandfather's, great-grandfather's (ect.) head why don't you change it back to what it used to be? Without rehashing the whole thread here suffice it to say I did not find any valid reason remained in this day and age for continuing with an imposed name and particularly distasteful the reason where words to the effect were "because all my achievements, eg High School certificate, University diploma/degree, sporting trophies, ect are in that name" when women with all of these same achievements can and do easily change their names upon marriage without what sounds like a sense of 'loss' ie in my view is it is a piss weak excuse to feel a sense of loss because of 'achievements' being gained in that imposed name and maybe the real reason is the person just LIKES there imposed name. If that is the real reason then I cannot fathom why anyone would enjoy their imposed name when it suggests to the world that they are Greek unless they also enjoy the Greekyness it brings with it. If that person is also enjoying the Greekyness that the imposed name brings with it then their mind is in 'bizaro-land' or maybe the're not as Macedonian as they think they are?

In this case because I say natural "Mr. Smith" can feel and think of himself a sense being Macedonian if he chooses to while imposed/artificial "Mr. Greekyopulos" motives are in question by the choices of his actions, or lack thereof, there is no contradiction in my statements even though both relate to people with non-Macedonian sounding names.

I must include for accuracy sake that the argument in the preceding paragraph is based on the general consensus view held at the MTO and since this is the standard we are working to then it is correct, but as I prefaced this argument at the beginning with Macedonians are a paternalistic society and there are many Macedonians in society who would view natural "Mr. Smith" as not Macedonian but Australian based on his father's heritage.

Cricky it can get tough to be a Macedonian.

You go on to say that the ski, ov and ev could indicate that one is perhaps Bulgarian, Russian, etc...but when I've made such an argument in the past, people holding your views on the surname issue (and perhaps even yourself) were quick to draw distinctions.

Do note the argument presented was to Vangelovski at the MTO whose standard is that "ski", "ov", "ev" ect are Macedonian names and also this is the reality in society hence my statement if my surname contained any of these variations it would neither prove nor disprove I was Macedonian and hence a waste of argument for the current discussion.

So why the sudden change Brian? Is it because your views are currently under scrutiny by a number of people?

You seemed so certain of yourself in the 'altered name' thread, yet you have now turned 180 degrees when you find yourself in a position of defending.

There is no "sudden change", you are presuppositioning the argument again. Without going into the 'suffix' debate again for the purpose of this discussion refer to the preceding paragraph for why I am correct to use this argument regardless of what you may think my position on the 'suffix' debate was.

Generally they have a boxhead.

Based on observation I would have to agree with you that the more north-east you go the more 'boxheads' you will find. In my opinion fortunately I don't have a 'boxhead' (maybe I am Macedonian), but for the purpose of this discussion my looks would not categorically prove or disprove I was Macedonian and hence having my photo ID would be useless to Vangelovski as a measuring stick, hence why I asked did he have any ulterior motive for wanting my ID eg egging my house, 'Millat', ect.LOL.

[Brian]

Toby, now I'm thinking it would be a good idea to have a copy of your ID in case some NWO scum come asking about you.

Asking about me?
Do you know any? Have they come to the MTO enquiring or has Phoenix finally scratched up enough money to by a bus ticket north to visit you?LOL.and you want an ID to show him?

Maybe they'll be able to finally shut you up.

That's what people say when they have no more arguments and nothing more to say.

You don't need my ID. You know I'm Macedonian, or you should by now.
You can see in this thread alone I'm trying to brainstorm ideas for the benefit of RoM. I'm trying to help so where's the problem?

You need a chill pill.
Or seeing you're old have a couple of rakia to mellow out, like in that K-15 comedy skit, "We have a couple of rakia when we wake up, a couple after feeding the goats, then my friend comes over and we have a few more and then it's time for lunch."

Chill out.

[Vangelovski]

Asking about me?
Do you know any? Have they come to the MTO enquiring or has Phoenix finally scratched up enough money to by a bus ticket north to visit you?LOL.and you want an ID to show him?



That's what people say when they have no more arguments and nothing more to say.

You don't need my ID. You know I'm Macedonian, or you should by now.
You can see in this thread alone I'm trying to brainstorm ideas for the benefit of RoM. I'm trying to help so where's the problem?

You need a chill pill.
Or seeing you're old have a couple of rakia to mellow out, like in that K-15 comedy skit, "We have a couple of rakia when we wake up, a couple after feeding the goats, then my friend comes over and we have a few more and then it's time for lunch."

Chill out.

Brian, I suspect you're older than me. Arguments in relation to what? Your incoherent dribble? I stopped reading it until this post. I'm sure eventually the NWO scum will come asking about you and when they do, I'd like to point you right out to them.

[George S.]

if there is nothing to hide toby just give your id only admin who will confirm for the rest of us of who you are.It's the least you could do instead of beating around the bush.Why bs & hide about your id.You got nothing to fear if you are honest.

[Brian]

have you heard the latest breaking news that alqueda is finished.The ameicans reckon they have virtually destroy it.

Where did you hear that George S.?

Al Qaeda was the insurgents in Libya and now run the country. Review the videos (or look at them for the first time?).

[George S.]

Afghanistan Brain.They said the war on alquaida will be over soon as there are no new cells being formed.They got all the heavies at the top.

[Brian]

I couldn't find where this was first posted so as to give credit but I've reposted it here because it's so good and hopefully will put some misconceptions about Yugoslavia, Serbia, Kosovo, Macedonia and the Albanians to rest.

Talk - Michael Parenti - The U.S. War on Yugoslavia
Talk - Michael Parenti - The U.S. War on Yugoslavia - YouTube

3.52 The history of the USA since WW2 has been...a history of bloody repressive interventions (the list is long).

4.00 USA leaders profess a dedication to democracy yet over the last 50 years...

has been a key force in overthrowing democratic governments...

9.44 Sadam was CIA...
10.20 started to fight for a better deal on the oil prices...he had to go in order to defend the '7 sisters oil cartel'

10.36 The USA is the greatest protector or promoter of drug traffickers...
12.45 Now we have the Kosovo Albanians...
Quote San Francisco Chronical 05 May 1999
"Kosovo Albanians including the KLA hold the largest share of the heroin market in
Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Germany, Hungary, Czech Republic, Norway and Sweeden...
The KLA leader owns the biggest whorehouse IN EUROPE, it's in Macedonia...
(Any wonder the Albanians chant "Makedonce, kuviste golemo..."

17.15 The first imperialism was by Western Europe against Eastern Europe, against the Slavs back in the 15-1600's.
19.55 Why are we in Kosovo Albania...is it human compassion?...

22.55 (about Rome) That policy which pretends to aspire to peace but generates war,
the policy of continual preparation for war, the policy of meddlesome interventionism,
there was no corner of the known world where some interest was not alleged to be in danger or under actual attack...
the fight was always invested with an aura of legality...
(is this not what the West does with every war?)

24.43 Yugoslavia was built on an idea...minerals in Kosovo

27.55 There was a conscious and deliberate plan to fragment and break-up Yugoslavia.

28.10 Nov 1990 when George Bush pressured Congress to pass the "Foreign Appropriations Law"
that called for the cutting off of ALL aid and credits to Yugoslavia...
the law also demanded that any republic in Yugoslavia wanted further USA aid they would
have to break away from Yugoslavia and declare their independence.

29.40 The USA and Western Powers decided to destroy Yugoslavia in 1989...
(and Greece renamed Norther Greece to Macedonia in 1988, any coincidence?)

...when it became evident it was the one country that would not voluntarily
overthrow what remained of its Socialist system. It was one country still trying
for some kind of economic independence outside of world global free-market 'third-worldisation process'.

They wanted a Yugoslavia who's rich natural resources would be at the disposal of multinational corporations
whose populations would work at sustenance wages,

36.00 To justify this violent intervention to the USA public there was an unrelenting demonization of the
Serbian people for the better part of a decade...

43.30 Sarajavo marketplace bombing (was a False Flag operation) was done by Bosnian Muslims and blamed on the Serbs.
It was the turning point which started the USA bombing of Serbia which the USA, West and UN knew all along.
46.00 In 1945 the non-Albanian population of Kosovo was about 50%. Since then to 1998 Albanians were coming
Across the border in substantial number
(remind you of what happened in Macedonia?) and displacing Serbs. There were repeated requests by the Serbians to Tito...and these went
unheaded.
By 1998 the Albanian population had reached 75% although the media keeps reporting 90%.
(also sound like Macedonia re FA?)

1.00.00 The USA/West being forced to because Milosovic would not accept the accord/agreement for 'peace' when in reality he had all but
for one point which was to allow Western troops into Kosovo wherever they wanted and at the troops direction be allowed to go anywhere inside Serbia ie a total surrender/capitulation ultimatum.

The Albanians in Kosovo and Macedonia are used as a destabilising force to keep the Serbs and Macedonians down. They are a ready made "poor me" poster of the downtrodden persecuted people who only want democracy, Western values and to live in peace for which the West will bomb anyone in their defence.

The real reason is the Albanians (and Bosnians for that matter) have done a deal with the West to let them exploit all the natural resources there in exchange the Albanians get a few jobs, power, seize extra land and get 'preferred acting agent' status and a 'free run' at all the drugs, prostitution and other mafia activities.