Perceptions of God, Creationism and Evolution

[Vangelovski]

It defy's all natural order and possibility.

That is only your view, you cannot conclusively disprove the events surrounding Noah as stated in the Bible.

[Bukefal]

Do you actually believe the story of Noah in the bible?

Yes I was wondering that same thing.

I myself, am not religious and I certainly do not believe in bibles or anything from a organised church. But, of course many people do and I have nothing against that. Everyone has their freedom to believe and do whatever he wants.

But, I was just wondering, how do people see the bible and the Noah story. Do they actually interpret it has how they would have interpreted historical literature, do they interpret it has real factual history? Do you approach the bible the same way as if you approach historical data of which you really know it happened? Or do you approach the bible and these stories as just that, stories or myths/legends?

[julie]

LOL

3 things one should never discuss, my dad said to me once, was sex, religion and politics. A sure way to never win an argument, but lose a friend. A wise man.

Can you have both, science and religion? Can both co-exist with each other?
And guys, there is no right or wrong, everything is judgement, and its not to be argued over either, but respectfully.

Has anyone seen zeitgeist incidentally? Very interesting.

[vojnik]

Yes I was wondering that same thing.

I myself, am not religious and I certainly do not believe in bibles or anything from a organised church. But, of course many people do and I have nothing against that. Everyone has their freedom to believe and do whatever he wants.

But, I was just wondering, how do people see the bible and the Noah story. Do they actually interpret it has how they would have interpreted historical literature, do they interpret it has real factual history? Do you approach the bible the same way as if you approach historical data of which you really know it happened? Or do you approach the bible and these stories as just that, stories or myths/legends?

Historical data which you know really happened. Really Bukefal? If you believe the bible to be so fictious and "historical accounts" to be fact then you need to get yourself checked out.

[Bukefal]

Historical data which you know really happened. Really Bukefal? If you believe the bible to be so fictious and "historical accounts" to be fact then you need to get yourself checked out.

Vojnik. What I meant was is that I am wondering how bible believers see it, do they see it as if everything really happened like described, or do they see it as a story, a myth with maybe some kind of truth to it. How do they approach the bible.

[makedonin]

That is only your view, you cannot conclusively disprove the events surrounding Noah as stated in the Bible.

Yeah right, but you can "prove conclusively" that the Bible story is true.

Well if the bible is the only source of evidence you like to consider, yeah sure, it's all true or at least you can make it look like it. But you have problems too, because you have two flood stories in it you first have to harmonize, and that is a hell of a work there. Also it is circular argument to use the Bible to defend it, and that is what we get from your kind. It is true because the bible says it, wow you must be genius.

You creationists get in whole lot of trouble when you have to explain away evidence which is discovered almost on daily basis.

[vojnik]

Thank you my Athiest friend's for ruining a thread about an extremly old source showing that Greece and Macedonia are disinct nations and that ALexander was a Macedonian. Thanks again for your bullshit athiest views

[Vangelovski]

Yeah right, but you can "prove conclusively" that the Bible story is true.

Well if the bible is the only source of evidence you like to consider, yeah sure, it's all true or at least you can make it look like it. But you have problems too, because you have two flood stories in it you first have to harmonize, and that is a hell of a work there. Also it is circular argument to use the Bible to defend it, and that is what we get from your kind. It is true because the bible says it, wow you must be genius.

You creationists get in whole lot of trouble when you have to explain away evidence which is discovered almost on daily basis.

Which two flood stories are you referring to?

I never claimed to have conclusive proof, however, on the available evidence, it is my view that it is more reasonable to conclude that the events surrounding Noah, as described by the Bible, are true than to conclude that they are simply a story or myth.

[Risto the Great]

Vojnik. What I meant was is that I am wondering how bible believers see it, do they see it as if everything really happened like described, or do they see it as a story, a myth with maybe some kind of truth to it. How do they approach the bible.

I have spoken to a few devout Christians who believe the Old Testament is more in the "story with kinds of truth to it" category.

[Vangelovski]

Bukefal,

Giving you the benefit of doubt to your loaded question, I would say that if you are a Christian, you would believe in the historical accuracy of the Bible, i.e., that the Bible is completely true. Though, not all do.

Granted, many Christians are not well informed about the evidence supporting the Bible and the various scientific hypotheses which claim to disprove certain aspects of it. I find that even fewer atheists are either.

[iskra]

[QUOTE=Jankovska;101358]
OK, Druze Tito, I'll stop posting and send myself to fucking Goli Otok.]
You carry on spreading bullshit on this forum, soon people will realise what I have long time ago, you are good at one thing, talking shit all day long.
Mr Dictator who says Yugoslavia was not good. You are a product of it

I think you make a valid point Jankovska, maybe too harshly, (I understand that things can get heated sometimes on these forums), but I think I agree with you that you can make connections with Communism, Titoism, Fascism etc and certain Christians that have a similar problem. This is fundamentalism and Christian fundamentalists behave in very similar ways and so do other political groups like certain neo-conservative extremists. These people think they own the truth, that they possess absolute knowledge. They think they have worked it all out and anyone who disagrees is to be ignored at best and at worst, is to be silenced and eliminated....

[Makedonska_Kafana]

TrueATHIEST,

I suggest you remove the crusifix from your avatar it's disgraceful you choose to use it when you have no faith.

Also to posters claiming there wasn't a world wide flood think about it the world was the balkan and the Middle east back then so a flood of that size isn't illogical.

Who made you a self God? How, the HELL do you know how much faith TM has?

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Thank you my Athiest friend's for ruining a thread about an extremly old source showing that Greece and Macedonia are disinct nations and that ALexander was a Macedonian. Thanks again for your bullshit athiest views

Some, of the most vicious attacks come when people discus religion and church's. Are, all Christians better then non Christians? Are. most Christians better the most non Christians? Do, most Christians go to heaven and non Christians ALL to Hell?

Politics plus religion equals wars and murder - Christians?

[makedonin]

Which two flood stories are you referring to?

What should I say if you don't know about the Y and P versions of the story which you fundamentalists try to harmonize:

http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/cflood.htm

http://www.energion.com/rpp/flood.shtml

I never claimed to have conclusive proof, however, on the available evidence, it is my view that it is more reasonable to conclude that the events surrounding Noah, as described by the Bible, are true than to conclude that they are simply a story or myth.

You don't have any real proof that it happened as the Bible describes the event, not to talk about the "fact" that "God did it" and that "Noah existence", and from conclusive evidence we are light years away.

I grant you your belief, but to sell it like hard fact is beyond my comprehension, and that is exactly what creationist do. They try to discredit scientific approach where they see fit, just to push their gullible ideas.

Keep your faith for your self, don't mix it with science, if you don't want to get burned.

[julie]

Guys
We are all united here, the majority of us for one commonality and that is our Macedonian Cause
Let us please be kind to each other and respectful of each other, whatever our belief, or non-belief
Everyone here is so passionate about what they believe in, and passion is good.
Its not so good when it becomes nasty.

Truce.

And presenting arguments and counter arguments in a constructive way
Love you guys