Perceptions of God, Creationism and Evolution

[George S.]

to all those that doubt there was a flood.This flood was specifically created by god to destroy all mankind ecept for Noah & his family for they were right with god.Also god in a vision instructed noah to build the boat to his specifications(gods)There's speculation that the boat was unsafe today but god knew what he was doing(noah simply followed advice.The reason for the flood is man became so bad that god had to put him out of his misery.Such a flood would have engulfed the whole earth as someone stated 13000 feet high.I think it lasted 40 days & 40 nites after that noah sent out a dove & it came back with a branch.Then god promised noah by the sign of a rainbow god would remind himself never to destroy the earth like that.

[Onur]

Do you agree with that? Going by what you have stated in the past, I don't think you do, but the reason I ask is because I notice you aren't always as quick to mock Islam as you are Christianity, even though you claim that you aren't a Muslim.

The Vangelovski guy who thinks the world is created in 5500 BC censors me by deleting my posts, so i wont answer. That`s funny tough, even the most hard core Jewish rabbis admits that Hebrew calendar is fallacy!!! but it looks like we have an admin here who is even more dogmatic than rabbis. He claims that i am derailing the thread but he keeps posting his counter arguments himself.


Btw, anyone who believes that the universe, world or humanity is only ~6-8k years old is just an idiot, simple as that.

[George S.]

Astronomers have spotted the most distant object yet confirmed in the universe – a self-destructing star that exploded 13.1 billion light years from Earth. It detonated just 630 million years after the big bang, around the end of the cosmic "dark ages", when the first stars and galaxies were lighting up space.
In the bible it says in the begining god created the heavens & the earth.It's a creation it does not ecist by itself god created it,designe it.It had a begining.It also says that he created certain things & eventually reached the sixth day & he rested on the seventh day.But scientists tell us that his creation is not so many day's old but is billions of years old.So the question is how does one come to grips with science & the bible?

[Vangelovski]

Btw, anyone who believes that the universe, world or humanity is only ~6-8k years old is just an idiot, simple as that.

Thats rich coming from someone who posts irrelevant topics from conspiracy theory websites.

[Vangelovski]

Astronomers have spotted the most distant object yet confirmed in the universe – a self-destructing star that exploded 13.1 billion light years from Earth. It detonated just 630 million years after the big bang, around the end of the cosmic "dark ages", when the first stars and galaxies were lighting up space.
In the bible it says in the begining god created the heavens & the earth.It's a creation it does not ecist by itself god created it,designe it.It had a begining.It also says that he created certain things & eventually reached the sixth day & he rested on the seventh day.But scientists tell us that his creation is not so many day's old but is billions of years old.So the question is how does one come to grips with science & the bible?

George, scientists say a lot of things, but they are only promoting their latest theories, none of which they can actually prove. They don't actually offer any proof for these claims because they are based on unprovable assumptions. So what exactly are we mean't to come to grips with?

[Vangelovski]

Here is a list of some modern scientists who accept the biblical account of creation. I would also post the names of some founding scientists from previous ages, but I'm afraid some of the militant atheists my fall into convulsions when they see some of the names on that list. May lay atheists hold those scientists up as supporters of atheism without actually understanding their work. For anyone interested, the below have some interesting works, though its heavy reading.

• Dr. William Arion, Biochemistry, Chemistry
• Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
• Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
• Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist
• Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist
• Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist
• Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
• Dr. Don Batten, Plant Physiologist
• Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
• Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
• Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
• Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
• Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
• Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
• Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
• Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
• Dr. Rob Carter, Marine Biology
• Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology
• Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
• Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
• Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
• Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
• Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
• Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
• Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
• Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
• Timothy C. Coppess, M.S., Environmental Scientist
• Dr. Bob Compton, DVM
• Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist
• Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
• Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
• Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
• Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
• Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
• Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
• Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
• Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
• Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
• Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
• Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
• Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
• Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
• Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research
• Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
• Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist
• Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist
• Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
• Dr. Andrew J. Fabich, Microbiology
• Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
• Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
• Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
• Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
• Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
• Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research
• Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
• Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist
• Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
• Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon
• Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
• Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History
• Dr. Stephen Grocott, Chemist
• Dr. Vicki Hagerman, DMV
• Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
• Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher
• Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
• Dr. John Hartnett, Physics
• Dr. Mark Harwood, Engineering (satellite specialist)
• Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
• Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
• Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer
• Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
• Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist
• Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
• Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
• Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
• Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
• Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
• Dr. George F. Howe, Botany
• Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
• Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
• Dr. Russ Humphreys, Physics
• Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
• George T. Javor, Biochemistry
• Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Molecular Biology
• Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology
• Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
• Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
• Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
• Dr. William F. Kane, (Civil) Geotechnical Engineering
• Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
• Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist
• Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
• Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
• Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
• Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
• Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
• Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
• Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
• Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
• Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
• Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist
• Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
• Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
• Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
• Dr. Johan Kruger, Zoology
• Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
• Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
• Dr. John G. Leslie, Biochemist, Physician, Archaeologist
• Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
• Dr. Alan Love, Chemist
• Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
• Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
• Dr. Ronald C. Marks, Associate Professor of Chemistry
• Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
• Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
• Dr. John McEwan, Chemist
• Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
• Dr. David Menton, Anatomist
• Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
• Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist
• Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist
• Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
• Dr. Tommy Mitchell, Physician
• Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator
• Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
• Dr. Henry M. Morris (1918–2006), founder of the Institute for Creation Research.
• Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist
• Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist
• Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist
• Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
• Dr. Terry Mortenson, History of Geology
• Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
• Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
• Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
• Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher
• Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
• Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
• Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
• Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
• Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
• Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
• Prof. Richard Porter
• Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
• Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist
• Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D.
• Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
• Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
• Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist
• Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology
• Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Physical Chemistry
• Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
• Dr. Ian Scott, Educator
• Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
• Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
• Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
• Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
• Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geology
• Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer
• Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
• Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
• Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915–1995) Three science doctorates; a creation science pioneer
• Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist
• Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
• Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology
• Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
• Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
• Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry
• Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics
• Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
• Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
• Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
• Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
• Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
• Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
• Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
• Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist
• Dr. Stephen J. Vinay III, Chemical Engineering
• Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892–1979) Surgeon
• Dr. Tas Walker, Geology/Engineering
• Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
• Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist
• Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
• Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
• Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
• Dr. Carl Wieland, Medicine/Surgery
• Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
• Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
• Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997)
• Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
• Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
• Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
• Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
• Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
• Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
• Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology

[George S.]

i was speaking where you have god's creation of the universe as an instantaneous feat.Or the scientists & their evolution theory that everything evolved out of nothing.According to them it took millions of years that's what i was saying coming to grips.I think it all comes to what you beleive some people beleive it some don't.
I was going to say that there is no strict following as you now have scientists who beleive in the biblical creation & evolution,but you beat me to the punch.
I was interested at one time about the space & time concept & also i wanted to know where the universe starts & where does it finish??

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski,

Are you suggesting the everything in the Bible can be proven? Or can it only be proven based on certain interpretations?

I'm not saying that everything can be conclusively proven, but I am saying that on the balance of the evidence available, it is much more reasonable to accept the Biblical version of events than not.

[George S.]

Well we are mean't to be the crowning glory of god.Our destiny is to become god like in the
future in gods kindom.A family composed of not only tthe god the father ,god the son,& god the holy spirit but also including mankind.Mankind will have god's holy spirit giving eternal life & the rightt knowledge & behaviour(holy rightous character).It says in the bible that heaven will be upon earth that we will inherit the arth.So the ultimate attainment of man is to become god,part of the god family.Since man was made in the image of god & god is merely reproducing himself throgh jesus christ.Being god guys what a wonderfull future we have in store???

[vojnik]

Btw, anyone who believes that the universe, world or humanity is only ~6-8k years old is just an idiot, simple as that.

Well I say your an idiot if you think the Earth is billions of years old and that we are the result of a bizzare case of evolution. There is more evidence on Creationism then Evolution.

I understand your point and it is well taken Rogi. However if there are Macedonians who believe the Earth is only 5000 years old then any possible historical outlook, myth or fact, is quite possible to them. So in essence I wonder if the threadstarter actually believes this ancient mythical source as a matter of fact.

I do believe that the Bible is fact not a story book. Also I don't understand how you can be a little bit Christian, I have never heard anything more absurd then that. Can one then say that they are a little bit Macedonian? How can you accept a little bit of something and not the rest and still claim you support it?

What scientific or any other evidence do you have to prove that God exists and that the 'mythical' stories were true, as described in the Bible? If you claim something to be true, then the onus is on you to prove it, not for others to disprove it first. They call it a 'faith' because it is not tangible or conclusively provable, because it relies on 'beliefs'. Don't you agree? If not, why?

Look at all the archaelogical diggings in Isreal there has been proof found for many stories in the Bible and not accepting the Bible as fact is being ignorant. I have provided evidence as have others on this thread of these stories and the Bible that they are true. They call it faith because it is a belief that there is an entity (God) that is above all humans that created the known universe and everything it contains. How do you know that Dinosaurs for instance ever roamed the Earth how do you know that the fossils and skeletal remains weren't placed by God to test man? Evolution relies on assumptions. Don't you agree? If not, why?

[George S.]

Have you heard what stephen hawkins now is saying that there is no god in his latest quip.

[George S.]

One thing i can mention is the bible does mention i thinkwhat happened prior to creation.The fact that the devil was called an angel of light etc of how everything was destroyed & was in chaos & god(brooded) over the sea.I hope people know of this & whether they can enlighten us.i only know a small bit.

[Vangelovski]

TM,

I watched part one of the video you provided and I have to say I'm quite dissapointed. For someone who claims they are a biblical scholar, he made some glaring mistakes, made some fantastical claims, provided quotes completely out of context and made no attempt to provide any actual evidence or even examples of how archaeology has "killed" the Bible.

The vast majority of archaeological discoveries in Israel (particularly in the early days) were only possible because of the Bible. Archaeologists for the past 200 years (give or take) have been using the Bible as a guide to show them basically where to dig. To now claim that somehow archaeology has "killed" the Bible is quite lame for Avalos. To do so without actually providing an example of how archaeology has proven something from the Bible as inaccurate is pathetic.

[George S.]

Guys i don't know if any of you are aware of this passage in the new version of st john
first chapter:The Word Became Flesh
Notice how it talks about the word which is jesus.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Jesus & god are the same one god.Many persons but one family which is the god family.Why do people limit god to 3 persons when the destiny is one god but many persons of the one god family.

[George S.]

Really Tom i'm surprised by the responses of people to religous matters.Staggered that they don't beleive the bible because they don't beleive they are true.I know it's hard but some things you have to accept as they are.There things that are confusing but in a lot of situations the bible intrepets itself.In a lot of cases where there are like parables jesus explains their meanings & also about the flood there are lessons to be learned from that.As i said it comes down to beleifs.Do you consider the bible to be the written word of god? or do you consider it gods word of where you live by every word.??