Perceptions of God, Creationism and Evolution

[Bukefal]

There maybe is no satisfying evidence for believers that there is no god, but scientists and non religious people like me, we just dont know, and thats why its interesting and a job to find out and research and learn to get to know. That's the way how scientists found things out and collect possible evidence.

But religious people, they all think they know from the start, for them it must be sure that its that way, and only that way, for them its clear from the beginning based on a book and ancient tales and there is no other way possible.

So the questions how religious people can prove the existence of god is more relevant than religious people asking non religious people to prove there is no god. Imo

[Vangelovski]

TM,

I watched part one of the video you provided and I have to say I'm quite dissapointed. For someone who claims they are a biblical scholar, he made some glaring mistakes, made some fantastical claims, provided quotes completely out of context and made no attempt to provide any actual evidence or even examples of how archaeology has "killed" the Bible.

The vast majority of archaeological discoveries in Israel (particularly in the early days) were only possible because of the Bible. Archaeologists for the past 200 years (give or take) have been using the Bible as a guide to show them basically where to dig. To now claim that somehow archaeology has "killed" the Bible is quite lame for Avalos. To do so without actually providing an example of how archaeology has proven something from the Bible as inaccurate is pathetic.

TM, I watched the first video and gave the above comments which have been drowned out...

[Vangelovski]

So the questions how religious people can prove the existence of god is more relevant than religious people asking non religious people to prove there is no god. Imo

Thats just ridiculous and a complete perversion of your claim to follow some scientific methodology.

[Vangelovski]

SoM,

You asked for some of the evidence that I view as supporting the existence of God earlier and I said that I would provide it. Part of it is summed up here (It may be a summary, but its still a long read):

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8088

But for me personally, the most compelling reason is that something cannot come into existence out of nothing.

[Bill77]

But religious people, they all think they know from the start, for them it must be sure that its that way, and only that way, for them its clear from the beginning based on a book and ancient tales and there is no other way possible.

Regarding the old testament, for those non believers, is it important if they were True ancient stories or not? isn't the moral of the story that is really important and is it possible these stories were created by God? the problem i have with atheists is that they disregard what can be a good, important message simply because they don't believe in who would have wrote it.

[makedonin]

It is ironic that the big theory was put foreward by Catolic priest. Also, even if we say that there was creator in the equation (quantum theory gives more answears than that statement) that does not prove Christian faith true per default. That would rather put the pantheistic view of god foreward, the view that even Einstein shared, and I agree more upon.

Also there are other theories that give more answears than the big bang, see fore example plasma theory.

And for the sediment pseudo argument put foreward as proof for the flood you only haveto look into tectonic plate movement to understand why we find sea organisms on mountain ranges, and why sediment is displaced.

Guliable args clothed in pseudo science.

Science already proved the Bible flat earth pseudo knowledge as false.

.

"But to affirm that the Sun is really fixed in the center of the heavens and that the Earth revolves very swiftly around the Sun is a dangerous thing, not only irritating the theologians and philosophers, but injuring our holy faith and making the sacred scriptures false."

Robert Bellarmine, Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church and the foremost Vatican theologian of the seventeeth century.

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/galileo.html

[vojnik]

I never said I was a little bit of christian. Show me where I said this.

And since you avoid to answer my question and believe in biblical fairy tales I am going to assume you believe that a descendent of Noah, an ancient Jew, was the founder of two of the most powerful nations in history. Until you say otherwise of course I believe the forum should treat you as a special case.

I answered your question whether I believe in the Bible as absolute truth and I replied yes the part of about being a little bit of a believer was meant for SoM sorry about that.

Phoenix you continue to ridicule me of being mental but I am still waiting on your answer and your evidence of there being no God.

Bill didn't mean to sound so rude towards you but I was proving a point if these people that believe in evolution can say God does not exist without any evidence then I can say there was no such thing as dinosaurs without any evidence, because as you can see these evolution believers like to throw out claims with not evidence based on personal opinion so I thik I have the right to also. Who knows if they existed? How does anyone know what God's plan was hey it might sound far fetched but then again God also tested man with the tree of knowledge. So you never know what his intentions were.

Also TM I am waiting for you to change your avatar you hipocrit.

[vojnik]

It is ironic that the big theory was put foreward by Catolic priest. Also, even if we say that there was creator in the equation (quantum theory gives more answears than that statement) that does not prove Christian faith true per default. That would rather put the pantheistic view of god foreward, the view that even Einstein shared.

Also there are other theories that give more answears than the big bang, see fore example plasma theory.

And for the sediment pseudo argument put foreward as proof for the flood you only haveto look into tectonic plate movement to understand why we find sea organisms on mountain ranges.

Guliable args clothed in pseudo science.

Science already proved the Bible flat earth pseudo knowledge as false.

Yes keep throwing your theories out here my scientist friend all they do is just show what science has to offer thoeries no facts theories that change on a regular basis. If there were some sort of a big bang who says that God wasn't the source of it?

[Vangelovski]

The problem with the lay atheist (uninformed and untrained), and admittedly the lay Christian, is that they nearly always mistake what the Bible and science really are, but I think I've already made that point.

Makedonin, what is it about tectonic plate movements that explains why we find sea organisms in mountain ranges?

[Phoenix]

Phoenix you continue to ridicule me of being mental but I am still waiting on your answer and your evidence of there being no God.
dinosaurs

...I never said to you that I don't believe in a God, I'm amused at your explanation for the existence of dinosaur fossils, that's really nutty...infact, its that exhibition of madness that gives zealots a bad name...

[makedonin]

Another thing that noahs story does not cover are the neandertals and other extinct proto humanoids.

[vojnik]

...I never said to you that I don't believe in a God, I'm amused at your explanation for the existence of dinosaur fossils, that's really nutty...infact, its that exhibition of madness that gives zealots a bad name...

Tell me how it's illogical? Explain that since you know everything about God's plan on Earth. Who are you or who am I or who are any of us to question God's intention we get what comes for us. Right now you need to stick to the fact of the Bible and it's teachings. If you believe in a God what is your belief then?

Also Makedonin stop avoiding questions imposed on you by asking other questions and answer what you have been asked.

[Bill77]

Sorry Vangelovski, i am going to drown out your posts some more with this. But your bottom statement invites me to post a quote, (which i can't remember where i got it from)

SoM,


But for me personally, the most compelling reason is that something cannot come into existence out of nothing.

ATHEISM

The belief that there was nothing
And nothing happened to nothing
And then nothing magically
Exploded for no reason
Creating everything
And then a bunch of everything
magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever
into self-replicating bits
which then turned into Dinosaurs.

Makes perfect sense.

[makedonin]

Makedonin, what is it about tectonic plate movements that explains why we find sea organisms in mountain ranges?

If it is true that you have weighted the evidence you would know what I mean, if not you go in library or google it for your self. If I find time soon maybe I will assist.

[Vangelovski]

What should I say if you don't know about the Y and P versions of the story which you fundamentalists try to harmonize:
http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/cflood.htm
http://www.energion.com/rpp/flood.shtml

And what exactly needs to be "harmoized"?