Perceptions of God, Creationism and Evolution

[Onur]

Behold almighty, it looks like God not only spread dinosaur bones to the earth, he also put down 10.000 year old trees to test our faith and belief in creation myth!!!

A tree said to be the oldest on the planet - thought to be nearly 10,000 years old - has been found in Sweden;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7353357.stm

Hallelujah!!! Bismillah!!!!

[vojnik]

I would like someone to answer this. If the Earth is 6 billion years ago or however old Evolutionists believe the Earth is. Why did human civilisation come only around 6000 years ago??? In 6000 years Humans have come from using stone tools to what we see in the world today. If evolution was true then we should not have been able to evolve so quickly in such a short amount of time I mean it took us 6 billion years to evolve from a cell to a human then 6000 years to develope the high amount of intelligence we possess today

I asked for you to answer that but am still waiting so while I research on that question you have a think about how you will go about as to answering the above

[Mr Brandy]

I think you're clutching at straws here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/evolution/7550033/Missing-link-between-man-and-apes-found.html

The majority of scientists all agree that the Earth is not 5000 years old or 6000 years old but millions and billions of years old.

Can you or any Creationist provide scientific proof outside of Genesis that God created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 days?

TM - my understanding is that light or "night and day" as we know it, was not created until the 3rd day. Therefore day 1 and day 2 could concievably actually have been millions or billions of years long. I believe that this is the Orthodox understanding of Genesis. It's only certain Christian sects that get caught up in stating exact time periods like ie. the Earth is 5000 or 6000 years old.

If you're so hung up on providing scientific proof why do you have an Orthodox cross as your avatar. You're avatar leads me to believe that you are Christian and believe in God. The cross is symbol of faith, it represents the life, death and resurrection of our saviour, Jesus Christ. It's not decoration.

[TrueMacedonian]

vojnik read Onurs post above and read this link which has a video with it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/evolution/7550033/Missing-link-between-man-and-apes-found.html

Missing link between man and apes found

A "missing link" between humans and their apelike ancestors has been discovered

By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent

9:00PM BST 03 Apr 2010



The new species of hominid, the evolutionary branch of primates that includes humans, is to be revealed when the two-million-year-old skeleton of a child is unveiled this week.


Scientists believe the almost-complete fossilised skeleton belonged to a previously-unknown type of early human ancestor that may have been a intermediate stage as ape-men evolved into the first species of advanced humans, Homo habilis.


Experts who have seen the skeleton say it shares characteristics with Homo habilis, whose emergence 2.5 million years ago is seen as a key stage in the evolution of our species.


The new discovery could help to rewrite the history of human evolution by filling in crucial gaps in the scientific knowledge.


Most fossilised hominid remains are little more than scattered fragments of bone, so the discovery of an almost-complete skeleton will allow scientists to answer key questions about what our early ancestors looked like and when they began walking upright on two legs.

Palaeontologists and human evolutionary experts behind the discovery have remained silent about the exact details of what they have uncovered, but the scientific community is already abuzz with anticipation of the announcement of the find when it is made on Thursday.

The skeleton was found by Professor Lee Berger, from the University of the Witwatersrand, while exploring cave systems in the Sterkfontein region of South Africa, near Johannesburg, an area known as "the Cradle of Humanity".

The find is deemed to be so significant that Jacob Zuma, the South African president, has visited the university to view the fossils and a major media campaign with television documentaries is planned.

Professor Phillip Tobias, an eminent human anatomist and anthropologist at the university who was one of three experts to first identify Homo habilis as a new species of human in 1964, described the latest discovery as "wonderful" and "exciting".

Although not directly involved in the excavation and subsequent research on the fossils, he is one of the select few scientists outside the research group who have been able to see the skeletons.

He said: "To find a skeleton as opposed to a couple of teeth or an arm bone is a rarity.

"It is one thing to find a lower jaw with a couple of teeth, but it is another thing to find the jaw joined onto the skull, and those in turn uniting further down with the spinal column, pelvis and the limb bones.

"It is not a single find, but several specimens representing several individuals. The remains now being brought to light by Dr Berger and his team are wonderful."

The new fossil skeleton was found along with a number of other partially-complete fossils, encased within breccia sedimentary rock inside a limestone cave known as Malapa cave.

The protection from the elements provided by the cave is thought to have played a large part in keeping the fossils so well preserved.

The fossil record of early humans is notoriously patchy and scientists now hope that the that the new remains will provide fresh clues about how our species evolved.

Scientists believe that a group of apelike hominids known as Australopithicus, which first emerged in Africa around 3.9 million years ago, gradually evolved into the first Homo species.

Over time the Australopithicus species lost their more apelike features as they started to stand upright and their brain capacity increased.

Around 2.5 million years ago Homo habilis, the first species to be described as distinctly human, began to appear, although only a handful of specimens have ever been found.

It is thought that the new fossil to be unveiled this week will be identified as a new species that fits somewhere between Australopithicus and Homo habilis.

If it is confirmed as a missing link between the two groups, it would be of immense scientific importance, helping to fill in a gap in the evolutionary history of modern man.

Dr Simon Underdown, an expert on human evolution at Oxford Brookes University, said the new find could help scientists gain a better understanding of our evolutionary tree.

He said: "A find like this could really increase our understanding of our early ancestors at a time when they first started to become recognisable as human."

The discovery is the most important find from Sterkfontein since an almost-complete fossil of a 3.3 million year old Australopithecus, nicknamed Little Foot, was found in 1994.

Another major discovery was the well-preserved skull of a 2.15 million year old Australopithecus africanus, nicknamed Mrs Ples, in 1947.

Finding almost complete fossilised skeletons of human ancestors is particularly prized by the scientific community.

The presence of a pelvis and complete limb bones would allow scientists to unravel the posture and method of walking used by the extinct species.

If the specimen also contains hand bones, it could provide clues about the species' dexterity and such evidence will prove crucial in determining when the ability of modern humans to handle stone tools first emerged.

Dr Kevin Kuykendall, a palaeoanthropologist at Sheffield University, said such finds were essential in helping to fill in the gaps in our knowledge about human ancestors.

He said: "The information we have right now is probably only based on a few hundred individuals through out the whole world, but some of these are single isolated teeth.

"If this new specimen is more complete and provides better information, all those models about locomotive behaviour will have a chance to really go under scrutiny and refined."

[iskra]

What you going to dig out Iskra is right he isn't an Athiest he believed in a high power (God) but not a Christian God etc he just believed that there was a creater a God not belonging to any faith

To be fair Vojnik, Einstein doesn't really fall into your category either. He seems to me to have been an Agnostic, which is why I like him. I have been an Agnostic for most of my life and like Einstein, I admit the possibility of the existence of some hidden and generally unknowable, creative force. But this does not mean belief in some Christian or Muslim God or that one can find all the answers about the universe, creation or all the answers on how to live a moral life from the Christian bible or any other sacred text from some other religion.

Agnostics admit that life, like the universe, is infinitely complex and it is to be enjoyed, but that some questions about our origins, are beyond our capacity to answer, this is very different from the positions and beliefs of organised religions and anthropomorphic gods and from Atheists too...

[vojnik]

Behold almighty, it looks like God not only spread dinosaur bones to the earth, he also put down 10.000 year old trees to test our faith and belief in creation myth!!!



Hallelujah!!! Bismillah!!!!

He didn't spread bones on the Earth it's a pitty you still chose to dwell on a stupid example which makes you even more stupider. Dinosaurs existed at the same time man did it is recorded in the Bible

[vojnik]

To be fair Vojnik, Einstein doesn't really fall into your category either. He seems to me to have been an Agnostic, which is why I like him. I have been an Agnostic for most of my life and like Einstein, I admit the possibility of the existence of some hidden and generally unknowable, creative force. But this does not mean belief in some Christian or Muslim God or that one can find all the answers about the universe, creation or all the answers on how to live a moral life from the Christian bible or any other sacred text from some other religion.

Agnostics admit that life, like the universe, is infinitely complex and it is to be enjoyed, but that some questions about our origins, are beyond our capacity to answer, this is very different from the positions and beliefs of organised religions and anthropomorphic gods and from Atheists too...

I'm pretty sure thats what I just said you just classed words differently

[vojnik]

TM - my understanding is that light or "night and day" as we know it, was not created until the 3rd day. Therefore day 1 and day 2 could concievably actually have been millions or billions of years long. I believe that this is the Orthodox understanding of Genesis. It's only certain Christian sects that get caught up in stating exact time periods like ie. the Earth is 5000 or 6000 years old.

If you're so hung up on providing scientific proof why do you have an Orthodox cross as your avatar. You're avatar leads me to believe that you are Christian and believe in God. The cross is symbol of faith, it represents the life, death and resurrection of our saviour, Jesus Christ. It's not decoration.

Disagree with first statement totally agree with the second

[vojnik]

One skeleton was found what does this tell us? Nothing thats what. Lets for a second image evolution existed. What evidence do you have that that skeleton that "missing piece" the "evolutionary link" which split humans and apes survived to create the offspring how do you know it didn't die if evolution existed

[TrueMacedonian]

TM - my understanding is that light or "night and day" as we know it, was not created until the 3rd day. Therefore day 1 and day 2 could concievably actually have been millions or billions of years long. I believe that this is the Orthodox understanding of Genesis. It's only certain Christian sects that get caught up in stating exact time periods like ie. the Earth is 5000 or 6000 years old.

If you're so hung up on providing scientific proof why do you have an Orthodox cross as your avatar. You're avatar leads me to believe that you are Christian and believe in God. The cross is symbol of faith, it represents the life, death and resurrection of our saviour, Jesus Christ. It's not decoration.

This avatar has been my avatar for many years now on here and on Maknews.
Also, the cross is nothing more than a cultural symbol to me. Not one I revere as a symbol to worship. The cross represents a symbol that existed among Macedonians for well over a millenia. The Sun symbol, also in my avatar, is an older cultural symbol than the cross. I worship neither symbol in a religious way. The symbol is nothing more than aesthetic, cultural, and traditional and has been part of Macedonian society for a very long time. Needless to say millions of people around the world wear the cross around their necks yet haven't been religious at all or adhered to christianity.

So to you and everyone else who asked this is my answer. You may not like my answer but I don't particularly care what you like or think. I will continue to use this symbol to much of the disdain of creationists and bible believers.

[vojnik]

This avatar has been my avatar for many years now on here and on Maknews.
Also, the cross is nothing more than a cultural symbol to me. Not one I revere as a symbol to worship. The cross represents a symbol that existed among Macedonians for well over a millenia. The Sun symbol, also in my avatar, is an older cultural symbol than the cross. I worship neither symbol in a religious way. The symbol is nothing more than aesthetic, cultural, and traditional and has been part of Macedonian society for a very long time. Needless to say millions of people around the world wear the cross around their necks yet haven't been religious at all or adhered to christianity.

So to you and everyone else who asked this is my answer. You may not like my answer but I don't particularly care what you like or think. I will continue to use this symbol to much of the disdain of creationists and bible believers.

The cross does not belong to Macedonia it is not a cultural symbol associated with Macedonia it is a symbol which represents the crusifiction of Christ and belongs to Christians if you want a another symbol with your sun I would suggest the lion now that is a symbol associated with Macedonia. NOT THE CROSS it is a symbol reserved for believers of Christ not Athiest Evolutionists who ridicule everything Christianity stands for it is hypocritical to have it as your avatar on one side you condem Creationism and Christianity and the other you display the cross.

[TrueMacedonian]

One skeleton was found what does this tell us? Nothing thats what. Lets for a second image evolution existed. What evidence do you have that that skeleton that "missing piece" the "evolutionary link" which split humans and apes survived to create the offspring how do you know it didn't die if evolution existed

Your ignorance is your strength. I will not entertain your ridiculous posts anymore. It seems so easy to simply wave things off with one fell swoop. But you asked for evidence and I provided it. Yet you or anyone else cannot provide me a detailed answer for this question I pose 3 times now:

Can you or any Creationist provide scientific proof outside of Genesis that God created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 days?

[vojnik]

Have you also found an answer to my questions or anything to disprove the facts presented so far by Tom and the video I supplied

[Mr Brandy]

This avatar has been my avatar for many years now on here and on Maknews.
Also, the cross is nothing more than a cultural symbol to me. Not one I revere as a symbol to worship. The cross represents a symbol that existed among Macedonians for well over a millenia. The Sun symbol, also in my avatar, is an older cultural symbol than the cross. I worship neither symbol in a religious way. The symbol is nothing more than aesthetic, cultural, and traditional and has been part of Macedonian society for a very long time. Needless to say millions of people around the world wear the cross around their necks yet haven't been religious at all or adhered to christianity.

So to you and everyone else who asked this is my answer. You may not like my answer but I don't particularly care what you like or think. I will continue to use this symbol to much of the disdain of creationists and bible believers.

TM - no need to get so defensive. The cross you display is not only a Christian cross but more-so an Orthodox christian cross. My logical assumption from seeing your avatar would be that you consider yourself to be a Macedonian Orthodox Christian!

My apologies for mis-intrepreting your avatar. There was no ill intention in my statement. It just seems hypocritical and misleading to have this as an avatar and also so vehemently speak out against scripture.

[George S.]

Guys reading so much bs i'm forced to writ this. If you let the bible explain itself in a lot of places jesus is the revelator & he reveals what the prophecies & the intention really is.The new testament gives a plain explanation what ithe bible is about i know looks like it's confusing to many.There are prophesies that many will fall by the wayside by false worship/beleifs about god ,not the few.The ways to a man are foolish to god.
dIn the book of john it tells you that people when they die they don't go to heaven or hell.They just die & stay in their grave.Their future hope is first a resurrection to judgement & you will be judged on whether you get eternal life or death.Where death means you cease to exist.Also it says that jesus is the first born.that is christ is the only one born of god of the god family.IN future we are to become part of the god family in a ressurrection of the dead.First unto judgement then unto everlasting life.From what i have read the resurrection unto everlasting life is one of abundace,hapinees overflowing,no sickness,joy no bounds.Once you are part of the god family you will be steered by the holy spirit,you will have holy rigthous character.God will be dwelling in you with his holy spirit.We will be composed of the same thing as god.
we will be made of spirit.(not matter)We have to do our bit accept jesus christ by beleiving in his gospel which means the message from god.God the father sent a message through his son the message is about mans destiny to become part of god,part of the god family.That is the kingdom of god on earth(not heaven).Jesus will be the king & he will regn as king of lords & lord of kings & he will reign in rightousness & truth.
In this life we are told that the devil or satan controls the earth.He confuses & makes people doubt god,also sets the human heart to test god by asking silly questions about god.In this life we can't know everything but in the next life we will know everything there is to know about god.God has revealed himself in his son jesus.God for so loved the world (mandkind) that he gave his only begotten son in order to save mankind from himself.This means that everything has a divine purpose man was devised so that god can reproduce himself.God is not limited to 3 personalities god the father,god the son'& god the holy spirit.The holy spirit is the power of god.God has allways existed he wasn't created.He is the life giving,he has made all things & things we don't know about & things we can't see.Do not limit god because we don't know a lot of things.As god reveals that his ways aren't our ways & vice versa.Jesus was his son & he died for mans sin.Sin cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven Jesus is the way to inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Whilst salvation is available for free we have to do our part as well.We have to do our part as christians with the right behaviour,or attitude.What will save people is if god gives them the gift of life.We dont have the gift of life now it will be in the future.
If we have doubt & ask unanswerable questions that is not going to help us.Remember the doubting thomases they wanted proof that jesus was crucified & didn't beleive wjhat he heard.In other words they did not have the faith in jesus that he was their saviour.
What did jesus say about the children,he said you have to be like a child to enter the kingdom of heaven.It's not rocket science to know every living being feels now is not the time to live life.Some people die young,they don't have a chance some people die old so they can't live long enough.Now in the life of a feles & blood human existance is not the time.Man's hope is in the knowledge & existence of a loving god.Who says he will make it happen.
He says heaven & hell may pass away but my words will not passaway (that's god's words in the bible)
If we don't beleive the god's word in the bible we don't have any hope at all.There is no road to eternal life in the future.Today god chooses what he want's to reveal.he doesn't need to reveal himself to be tested by mankind.BUt he says i'm god there is not another etc.He is the divine ruler of the universe have you ever contemplated the huuuge expanse of the universe &what's beyond???You only got to marvel at it.With god we have a future because he intends on reproducing himself it says in genesis we are in the image of god but composed of matter.Matter decays,or changes from one state to another.In the next life we will be composed by spirit which never decays,spirit lives on forever & never decays.I'm reminded of the saying in the new testament of how jesus tells people it would hard for a rch man to enter the kingdom of heaven than a poor man.He said the rich man set his heart on wealth wheras the poor man st his heart on things of god so he is going to make it in the scheme of things,he is going to get everlasting life & enter the kingdom of god.The kingdom of god is the divine family of god that is mans destiny to become like god.As isaid if you take away what god is trying to accomplish with man,man has no purpose in life but to live & die.But with gods love there are a lot of possibilities of hope & hapiness.I think that is too valuable to passup.It says only the fool have said there is no god in their heart.But if we set our heart on god we have a future There is a huuuge difference.What a "waste" of time people trying to derail god by asking silly & stupid questions to test god.Today god is not god of this world but the devil who is casting doubts about god.He is doing the same thing he triesto test god especially jesus who was on the mountain fasting for 40 day's & nites,the devil telling him

that if he could only jump from the huge height he tested him as to who he is prove to me that you are the son of god ,he wanted proof from god who god is.Jesus said that it is a commandment that thou dhalt not test thy lord god,don't put god to the test.
Also satn or the devil promissed to jesus he would give him all the fine cities in the world & wealth.Jesus said it is written that man cannot live by bread alone but must live by every word of god.The devil was trying to destroy gods plan to save mankind as he know's his time is short as he is a god of this planet.He tried to trick jesus & derail gods plan but he was too smartfor him.Just repeating man has a future with god or man does have no future with god take your pick.