Fascinating Diaspora On Macedonian Election

[julie]

Vanglovski


Native can have different meanings. But when I say native, or more precisely, native residential Macedonians, it refers to those who live there, speak the language, and serve the country.

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Bit like the "minority"shiptar dogs that have more rights than Macedonians.
Bit like the shiiptar diaspora that have held more rights than the Macedonian diaspora

[Currency Trader]

Vanglovski said:

While we have been discussing issues relating to natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability…… CT basically stated that unless we live in Macedonia, we can not legitimately discuss matters relating to natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability, which are universal concepts no matter where you live or how much money you have in the bank.

Negative – You can certainly discuss any issue pertaining natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability. The point of the matter is that some of you dismiss ALL Macedonian politicians as “shitty”. And some of you think that all Macedonian institutions (except for taxation) have zero governance.

So I say, it’s easy to sit some 15 000 kilometers away from Macedonia and literally dismiss all Macedonian politicians and what they (government) so far have achieved in terms of institutional build-up and improvement.

I further say, you can discuss all you want about natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability, but why don't some of you take the ultimate moral ground and replace those “shitty politicians” that you call in RoM?

I mean, you seem to have the wit to become the ultimate politician in Rep of Macedonia. Why not turn discussion into real action for the sake of showing Macedonian citizens how a country or politics should be?

What's stopping you, Vanglovski, to take the big leap and relocate to Macedonia?


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[Currency Trader]

SOM said:

… how will Macedonia enter the EU without losing its national identity (ie; without accepting a name change)?

It’s quite possible they may enter without “losing” its national identity on fulfillment of EU qualifications.

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[julie]

CT, you obviously are an advocate for EU membership.

Does it not bother you as a Macedonian, that Macedonia is being forced to change her name?

Does it not bother you to be referred to as a Skopian?

[Vangelovski]

Vanglovski


Native can have different meanings. But when I say native, or more precisely, native residential Macedonians, it refers to those who live there, speak the language, and serve the country.

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So you obviously distinguish between Macedonian in Macedonia and Macedonians outside of Macedonia - why? And how do you classify Macedonians under Greek and Bulgarian occupation, who may not necessarily even speak Macedonian?

Further, what do you mean by "serve the country"?

[Vangelovski]

Vangelovski


Again, which “evidence” are you referring to? You’re not providing any specifics.
For the second time, which “evidence” has RtG provided?


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Its all here on the public record. It seems that everyone is aware of it except for you. Have you been itentionally ignoring it or are you just playing stupid?

[Vangelovski]

Vanglovski


Negative – You can certainly discuss any issue pertaining natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability. The point of the matter is that some of you dismiss ALL Macedonian politicians as “shitty”. And some of you think that all Macedonian institutions (except for taxation) have zero governance.

So I say, it’s easy to sit some 15 000 kilometers away from Macedonia and literally dismiss all Macedonian politicians and what they (government) so far have achieved in terms of institutional build-up and improvement.

I further say, you can discuss all you want about natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability, but why don't some of you take the ultimate moral ground and replace those “shitty politicians” that you call in RoM?

I mean, you seem to have the wit to become the ultimate politician in Rep of Macedonia. Why not turn discussion into real action for the sake of showing Macedonian citizens how a country or politics should be?

What's stopping you, Vanglovski, to take the big leap and relocate to Macedonia?


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How is relocating to Macedonia taking the "ultimate moral ground"? That does not even make any sense. Again, you are implying that one can only legitimately hold a view on Macedonian affairs if they reside in Macedonia. Again, that is perverted Gligorovism - the issues we are debating are universal REGARDLESS OF LOCATION OR WEALTH.

[Vangelovski]

CT,

You are now avoiding the obvious - a name change will only get Macedonia a date for accession negotiations. There will be literally hundreds of further opportunities for Greece to demand other capitulations before it can actually become a EU member. We know you are willing to change our name and put the final nail in the coffin of our sovereignty and natural rights for an accession date, but what else are you willing to betray us on for the actual membership?

[Risto the Great]

So you obviously distinguish between Macedonian in Macedonia and Macedonians outside of Macedonia - why? And how do you classify Macedonians under Greek and Bulgarian occupation, who may not necessarily even speak Macedonian?

Further, what do you mean by "serve the country"?

I would say "native Macedonians" can mean ethnic Albanians under his definition. I didn't expect to be surprised by his definition but alas, here I stand before you. What a pitiful definition CT. Do you want to have another crack at it?

[Soldier of Macedon]

It’s quite possible they may enter without “losing” its national identity on fulfillment of EU qualifications.

By 'national identity' I will assume you're also including the name of the state - which is exactly the point of contention for both the European 'leaders' and even more so the Greek government. With this in mind, can you please outline the reasons why you think it is (quite) possible for Macedonia to become an EU member using its official name?

[Currency Trader]

Vangelovski said:

Its all here on the public record. It seems that everyone is aware of it except for you

If the so-called “evidence” is here on public record, how come you cannot even post, cut’n paste, or refer to which specific evidence you’re talking about? I asked you to provide specifics, either from RtG or anyone else, of what you call “evidence”, but it appears that you are not even capable of that, young man.


_________________

On the question why Macedonia should not have any debt, despite the fact that every country has some form of debt on their national balance sheets.


RtG answers with his “evidence”;
“I have an acquaintance who draws down money against his credit cards to pay for whores”

Is this the evidence you are talking about?

____________________

On the question what specifically has EU created for Bulgaria that RtG calls "pretty picture of the magic".


RtG answers with his “evidence”:
“Lot like my acquaintance who borrows money for whores. Though rumour has it he might actually have something to show for it .... now”


Is this the evidence you are talking about?

_______________


On the question of what RtG understands from a chart he posted on Bulgaria showing a decline in economic activity (late 2008) and rise in unemployment from historically low levels....

RtG answers with his “evidence”:
“Big red line have erection.”

Is this the evidence you are talking about?

___________


Or how about these from “Julie”, 04-14-2011, 03:49 PM

“Bulgaria is also being crippled financially”
“There is no economic prosperity for Macedonia with EU membership”

Is this the evidence you are talking about?

__________________


Here we have you, Vangelovski, stating your “evidence” that Macedonia will not experience economic growth, increase of foreign investments, reduction of unemployment and boost of living standard after joining the EU.

Vanglovski 04-07-2011, 06:50 PM
"...there is abundant evidence that none of these will occur"


But here is the 2011 flip flop award, two months later……


Vangelovski 06-06-2011, 06:26 PM
“…You can no more prove your views of the EU's benefits than I can disprove them”


You went from “there is abundance of evidence” that Macedonia will NOT experience any benefits by joining EU….only to flip flop and now say “I cannot disprove the EU benefits” for Macedonia joining EU - Sure you can disprove the EU benefits, you claim to have “abundance of evidence” that there will be no EU benefits. Where is that evidence young man?



.

[Currency Trader]

Vanglovski said;

Again, you are implying that one can only legitimately hold a view on Macedonian affairs if they reside in Macedonia…. the issues we are debating are universal REGARDLESS OF LOCATION OR WEALTH

Negative - you can discuss all you want about natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability. But why not turn discussion into real action for the sake of showing Macedonian citizens how a country or politics should be? You seem to have the wit to become the ultimate politician in Rep of Macedonia. What's stopping you, Vanglovski, to take the big leap and relocate to Macedonia and replace a “shitty politician”?

You’re avoiding the questions for the third time.


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[Risto the Great]

Oh good, you read my answers but have chosen not to respond to them.
Country Trader, please discuss my answers to your questions in the appropriate thread(s) and do not take them out of context.

[Currency Trader]

Oh good, you read my answers but have chosen not to respond to them.
Country Trader, please discuss my answers to your questions in the appropriate thread(s) and do not take them out of context.

Of course I've read your answers. I love you and I laugh so much thanks to you. Tell me, when you got your Ph.D, did you also incorporate the words "whores and erections" in your thesis?

Chris, lets kiss up and move on. I've had a great time talking to you and I hope you dont feel I've been mean to you. But, I still advice you to be careful of what you write and say in the selected area of subject. You don't want to look like a fresh junior who just graduated out of high-school with faulty conclutions

Off to work....

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[Vangelovski]

CT,

I'm not going to clutter these threads so that you can ignore the evidence again. Further, I stated that there is an abundance of evidence that none of what you claim will occur - that is not the same as stating that they will definatley not occur!

Further, you still have not explained how relocating to Macedonia is taking the "ultimate moral ground"?