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What, is not realistic is someone trying to sell the EU as a smart man's choice.
Stevie Wonder "seeing is believing"
Stevie Wonder "seeing is believing"
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Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 06-09-2011, 10:46 PM. -
CT, are you going to let us know what a "native Macedonian" is?If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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Vanglovski said
Again, are you going to provide written facts, or cut'n paste, where I have stated that you cannot discuss “natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparency or accountability? I asked you to provide facts WHERE I have stated this.CT, we know you have taken the UMD position that possbible economic growth is more important to you than your natural rights (or those of others)
And what do you come up with? Some fresh junior rambling about UMD having an economic opinion that is more important than natural rights. Young man, I form my own economic opinions which does not mean I've taken someone elses position on economic matters. Nor does it mean (per default) that I have the same conclusion or opinion on other matters.
What I can conclude, based on your current claim and previous claims, is that when it comes to providing factual support for your claims, your fact providing skills are thus far miserable. At least by my standards.
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Here is the difference between you and me. I provide facts and arguments based on emperical research. You provide nothing of this sort. Instead you make claims, that's all you do.You can no more prove your views of the EU's benefits than I can disprove them
And worse, you categorically claim (without emperical support) that Macedonia will not experience economic growth, increase of foreign investments, reduction of unemployment and boost of living standard after joining the EU.
Vanglovski 04-07-2011, 06:50 PM
"...there is abundant evidence that none of these will occur"
Where is that "abundant of evidence"?
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Evidence provided by RtG?...the evidence provided by RtG, you're views are irrational in my opinion
If you're alluding to RtG's attempt to provide "evidence" and the meaning of Macedonias economic "debt", I'm sorry to say that the individual lacks proper knowledge or understanding in the area - He does not understand "external debt" or differentiate the important difference between trade deficit and budget deficit.
If you're alluding to RtG's attempt to provide "evidence" that EU has made Bulgaria into a "pretty picture", he doesn't even know what caused Bulgarias growth to slump after 2007. He shows a chart pointing to slower growth after 2007 and thinks EU caused it.
If you're alluding to RtG's attempt to make currency arguments on the EUR (claimed that PIIGS had fixed exchanged rates) and USD (claimed that weak USD has meant quick turnaround in U.S growth), I'm sorry to say that he is lacking proper knowledge or expertise.
So which evidence are you referring to?
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Will be back to answer your last question. Off to business....Comment
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Before it even gets to that, first you need to clear your vision of $ signs, and answer how will Macedonia enter the EU without losing its national identity (ie; without accepting a name change)? You were asked some similar questions on post #40 from the other thread on which you stopped posting:Originally posted by Currency Trader
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.Comment
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CT,
Nearly everyone that has addressed your claims has provided evidence - its all on the public record. But the economic argument is a mute point. As SoM points out, Macedonia will have to change its name just to get a date for accession negotiations. There are hundreds of more hurdles between that and actual membership, giving Greece prime opportunities to demand more capitulations. You are yet to address this.
Further, you are yet to tell us what a "native Macedonian" is.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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While we have been discussing issues relating to natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability, CT jumped in and gave us some Gligorovist BS about:
This was merely an apologetic reaction to our criticism of the moral and material corruption of Macedonian politicians. CT basically stated that unless we live in Macedonia, we can not legitimately discuss matters relating to natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability, which are universal concepts no matter where you live or how much money you have in the bank.Originally posted by Currency Trader View Post
The real question is why he would attempt to stiffle such debate with such a ridiculous interjection?If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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Ct you don't seem to get it we aren't getting honest to goodness answers here.You are plainly ignoring people like RTG who are in the know,You are trivialising our questions & suugestions.THe big hurdle is the name that needs to be overcome if macedonia is to join the eu.There is a big question on that & if it does change it's name what it's going to be for macedonia.We question that & you are evading that down to earth answer that not much is in store for macedonia except debt.We in the diaspora can ask any question we like & we are in abetter position to know than the citizens of Rom.We knew a lot of things of how macedonia is compromising & capitulating to greece."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEVComment
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I've asked him a half dozen times what he does for a living and he chooses to withhold that information, why?Comment
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MK said
What, is not realistic is someone trying to sell the EU as a smart man's choice.
Tell that to all the countries that joined EU for the last 20 years in northern, eastern and central Europe.Comment
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MK said
Yes, I’ve seen your question multiple times, and I apologize if you’ve had sleepless nights. To answer you, I have borrowed the following quote when someone spoke of you on this forum.. I've asked him a half dozen times what he does for a living and he chooses to withhold that information, why?
“I am not sure he knows the meaning of the word 'integrity' unless it concerns the colour consistency of his favourite goats.”
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Vangelovski has also asked question, what is a native Macedonian.Originally posted by Makedonska_Kafana View Post"The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse DelchevComment
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Vanglovski
Native can have different meanings. But when I say native, or more precisely, native residential Macedonians, it refers to those who live there, speak the language, and serve the country.CT, are you going to let us know what a "native Macedonian" is?
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Vangelovski
Again, which “evidence” are you referring to? You’re not providing any specifics.CT, Nearly everyone that has addressed your claims has provided evidence - its all on the public record
For the second time, which “evidence” has RtG provided?
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Country Trader is a peasant, a goat shepherd.Originally posted by Currency Trader View Post"The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse DelchevComment
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Vanglovski
Negative – You can certainly discuss any issue pertaining natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability. The point of the matter is that some of you dismiss ALL Macedonian politicians as “shitty”. And some of you think that all Macedonian institutions (except for taxation) have zero governance.While we have been discussing issues relating to natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability…… CT basically stated that unless we live in Macedonia, we can not legitimately discuss matters relating to natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability, which are universal concepts no matter where you live or how much money you have in the bank.
So I say, it’s easy to sit some 15 000 kilometers away from Macedonia and literally dismiss all Macedonian politicians and what they (government) so far have achieved in terms of institutional build-up and improvement.
I further say, you can discuss all you want about natural rights, sovereignty, democracy, transparancy and accountability, but why don't some of you take the ultimate moral ground and replace those “shitty politicians” that you call in RoM?
I mean, you seem to have the wit to become the ultimate politician in Rep of Macedonia. Why not turn discussion into real action for the sake of showing Macedonian citizens how a country or politics should be?
What's stopping you, Vanglovski, to take the big leap and relocate to Macedonia?
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