Albanianization in Macedonia

[George S.]

i'm sick of seing albanian pictures.These people simply want a country within a country.Look ar rhe problems they are creating & they are only 17% of the population.

[julie]

My disgust at the Albanian flag being flown has me not even take any notice of it, to really look at the flag, until now, the supposed eagle on the flag was what I thought a scorpion!

[nitanee]

Hello all, I'm American but have lived here in Skopje for the past 4/5 years and have come to consider this country my second home. But on topic:

I think the problem between Albanians and Macedonians is a very serious one. To be honest, I foresee big trouble in the future for this country based on the way things are at the moment. The school issue is the most important, IMO. The current system is very close to a system of segregation and I think it is very dangerous. Ideally, Albanians and Macedonians should attend the same schools and interact. Albanians should be fluent in Macedonian; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach Macedonian kids the basics of Albanian. A tolerant and multicultural Macedonia must be created, but I don't think this is happening at the moment and the consequences can be very grave, as other Balkan countries can attest. You guys have only been independent for ~20 years and yet you have done as much as any of the current Balkan countries; I think your future will be glorious but only if you do things right.

[George S.]

the albanians want our country they think it's theirs.Like they carry on that they are illyrian.But forget to mention that they have no link to the ancients & probably hail from albania in asia.So because of our govt's stupidity etc they are making all sorts of claims & they seem unstoppable.

[julie]

Welcome Nitanee, what were your reasons for moving to Skopje?

[Zarni]

Second that Welcome Nitanee,

Albanians don’t seek a multicultural State but bi-national one that is their first goal, moving to autonomy then full independence they seek to destroy Macedonia as the Macedonian State of the Macedonians in fact they actually resent it that the Macedonia's should and could have their own Homeland.

The Ohrid Framework Accord guarantees it, the constant pandering and flying concessions of Macedonian parties assure it not to mention the complete lack of will of the Macedonian public sets it in stone. The United States in the formative years of Macedonian Independence had plans to partition our Country between Sofia and Athens, Serbia was loose so it did not tally out, it then continued to NOT! support our Independence for ten years until 2007 when it gave us a gift horse to stop a democratic referendum essentially cosy up to the Albanians our worth is what we can offer Kosovo.

Then came 2001 and complete capitulation to Terrorism and the infamous Ohrid accord the Battle of Archinovo ended the conflict on the ground effectively but was extended 8 more months courtesy the of the 51st US Marine battalion and MPRO instructors on the ground rescuing in air conditioned buses cut throats right under the nose of the Macedonian Army just weeks after 9/11.

Sorry to dig deep and I hope you aren’t offended..........but you may have noticed some animosity towards the United States displayed on this Forum not you personally I just want you to know how the US has never been our friend and alley it certainly is not our friend when it insists we need to Negotiate with Greece.

[Komita]

Hello all, I'm American but have lived here in Skopje for the past 4/5 years and have come to consider this country my second home. But on topic:

I think the problem between Albanians and Macedonians is a very serious one. To be honest, I foresee big trouble in the future for this country based on the way things are at the moment. The school issue is the most important, IMO. The current system is very close to a system of segregation and I think it is very dangerous. Ideally, Albanians and Macedonians should attend the same schools and interact. Albanians should be fluent in Macedonian; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach Macedonian kids the basics of Albanian. A tolerant and multicultural Macedonia must be created, but I don't think this is happening at the moment and the consequences can be very grave, as other Balkan countries can attest. You guys have only been independent for ~20 years and yet you have done as much as any of the current Balkan countries; I think your future will be glorious but only if you do things right.

Please piss off with multicultural, democratic bullshit. Leave our country and people alone we don't want your western democracy and multicultural Macedonia. Tell me in what country in the world does a majority of people learn and teach the language of a minority that hardly consists 20% of the population, let me help you with the answer NONE.
We want a macedonian Macedonia where the majority should be respected and if they don't like they can leave.

[Niko777]

Hello all, I'm American but have lived here in Skopje for the past 4/5 years and have come to consider this country my second home. But on topic:

I think the problem between Albanians and Macedonians is a very serious one. To be honest, I foresee big trouble in the future for this country based on the way things are at the moment. The school issue is the most important, IMO. The current system is very close to a system of segregation and I think it is very dangerous. Ideally, Albanians and Macedonians should attend the same schools and interact. Albanians should be fluent in Macedonian; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach Macedonian kids the basics of Albanian. A tolerant and multicultural Macedonia must be created, but I don't think this is happening at the moment and the consequences can be very grave, as other Balkan countries can attest. You guys have only been independent for ~20 years and yet you have done as much as any of the current Balkan countries; I think your future will be glorious but only if you do things right.

I agree that the school issue is serious, but Macedonians having to learn the language of a minority that is less than 20% is not the solution. There are many minorities in Macedonia, so are Macedonians now obligated to speak everyone's language? Let's not make this complicated, the solution is simple. Macedonian is the official language, it should be the lingua franca. This is the language everyone has in common!

[makedonche]

please piss off with multicultural, democratic bullshit. Leave our country and people alone we don't want your western democracy and multicultural macedonia. Tell me in what country in the world does a majority of people learn and teach the language of a minority that hardly consists 20% of the population, let me help you with the answer none.
We want a macedonian macedonia where the majority should be respected and if they don't like they can leave.

...absolutely!

[Risto the Great]

Hello all, I'm American but have lived here in Skopje for the past 4/5 years and have come to consider this country my second home. But on topic:

I think the problem between Albanians and Macedonians is a very serious one. To be honest, I foresee big trouble in the future for this country based on the way things are at the moment. The school issue is the most important, IMO. The current system is very close to a system of segregation and I think it is very dangerous. Ideally, Albanians and Macedonians should attend the same schools and interact. Albanians should be fluent in Macedonian; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach Macedonian kids the basics of Albanian. A tolerant and multicultural Macedonia must be created, but I don't think this is happening at the moment and the consequences can be very grave, as other Balkan countries can attest. You guys have only been independent for ~20 years and yet you have done as much as any of the current Balkan countries; I think your future will be glorious but only if you do things right.

Hi Nitanee,
Welcome and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think you are certainly entitled to have your thoughts. I see no problem learning Albanian or Greek or Turkish. I think English is far more useful than any of them. You might be living somewhere near an ethnic Albanian populated area and it may make you feel that they are more populous than reality would dictate if you travelled throughout all of Macedonia.

Many of us believe in a concept whereby Macedonia is the homeland for Macedonians. This includes rights for minorities but certainly no advantages for minorities particularly where they might impinge on the ability for all Macedonian citizens to live and prosper in this "homeland".

Can I ask you whether you have an intimate knowledge of the framework agreement? If you do, can you please advise how this can achieve an enduring benefit for the majority of Macedonians? My experiences in life tell me that something of disproportionate benefit to one party always ends up with a disgruntled other party. In this case, the majority (Macedonians) have sacrificed their sovereignty for a minority (ethnic Albanians) due to external pressures (USA, NATO & EU). I see this as unsustainable and am positive the pendulum is yet to reach equilibrium on this matter.

[Zarni]

Yeah you are entitled to your view and I still welcome you, but you are also obliged to get out and understand the Macedonian and the Majority view
Albanians this year ending will have succeeded in putting on hold their official demographic number of less then 20% in fact less then 12% yet they have a majority vote in Parliament and the Macedonian are forced to employ translation services in Parliament Sessions so you can’t expect on the ground Macedonian-Albanians would be pressed to uphold the Official Language of State
The leader of the biggest Albanian Political Party a Former Terrorist thug and Murder for 10 years refuses to speak the Language of State in any official communication including in front of media
So yeah we have problems with that restless minority

[Soldier of Macedon]

Hello all, I'm American.............Albanians should be fluent in Macedonian; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach Macedonian kids the basics of Albanian.

Hello, I'm a Macedonian-Australian.........Latino-Americans should be fluent in English; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach American kids the basics of Spanish.........or........Turkish-Germans should be fluent in German; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach German kids the basics of Turkish........or, one country, one official language.

Macedonian as the official language of Macedonia, English of America, German of Germany. And give the minorities whatever rights are required so they can sustain their languages and cultures while at the same time respecting the language and culture of the host nation as prevalent - and ensuring that it remains prevalent. Like most other normal countries. That is what Macedonians want.

Before you preach to other people just because you've lived in their country for a few years, go and apply your standards in your own 'home' country, if you really are an American that is. It is because of your government and their support for ethnic Albanian extremism that Macedonians find themselves in this pathetic predicament.

[Big Bad Sven]

Hello, I'm a Macedonian-Australian.........Latino-Americans should be fluent in English; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach American kids the basics of Spanish.........or........Turkish-Germans should be fluent in German; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach German kids the basics of Turkish........or, one country, one official language.

Macedonian as the official language of Macedonia, English of America, German of Germany. And give the minorities whatever rights are required so they can sustain their languages and cultures while at the same time respecting the language and culture of the host nation as prevalent - and ensuring that it remains prevalent. Like most other normal countries. That is what Macedonians want.

Before you preach to other people just because you've lived in their country for a few years, go and apply your standards in your own 'home' country, if you really are an American that is. It is because of your government and their support for ethnic Albanian extremism that Macedonians find themselves in this pathetic predicament.

Can you imagine the uproar in say Miami/Orlando were there is a huge Cuban population (still a minority though), if the state made the non-cubans and the majority of the population (white americans) learn spanish. All of the red necks, KKK and the bible bashers in the bilble belt will be having a fit! Yet these people have the nerve to tell us how to run our country lol.....

Typical yankee ignorance

Hey nitanee, why dont you allow Alaska and Hawaii to be independent from the USA? You seem to think Kosovo and perhaps one day western macedonia should be independent because it was never "slav" so why not Alaksa and Hawaii

[Big Bad Sven]

Hello all, I'm American but have lived here in Skopje for the past 4/5 years and have come to consider this country my second home. But on topic:

I think the problem between Albanians and Macedonians is a very serious one. To be honest, I foresee big trouble in the future for this country based on the way things are at the moment. The school issue is the most important, IMO. The current system is very close to a system of segregation and I think it is very dangerous. Ideally, Albanians and Macedonians should attend the same schools and interact. Albanians should be fluent in Macedonian; likewise, it wouldn't hurt to teach Macedonian kids the basics of Albanian. A tolerant and multicultural Macedonia must be created, but I don't think this is happening at the moment and the consequences can be very grave, as other Balkan countries can attest. You guys have only been independent for ~20 years and yet you have done as much as any of the current Balkan countries; I think your future will be glorious but only if you do things right.

Hi Friend,

You are correct about the segregation of students because of the "ethnic" schools, that is a huge issue. Albanians along with other macedonians should go to the same school as the macedonians and other minorities. It will be a great way for young macedonians and albanians to know that not all of the opposite race are bad or the enemy.

But alas thanks to yankee meddling and support we have seen the rise of segregated schools, starting from the bastard monstrosity called the University of Tetovo.
It is the albanians that do not want to go to school with macedonians or non-albanians. This basically mirrors the same attitude that they project on everything macedonian. They dont want to speak the same language as us, they dont want to have the same flag as us, they dont want to follow the same rule as us, they dont want our country to have the name we want, heck they dont even want to be in the same country any more.
Its because from a young age albanian kids are taught to hate and disrespect macedonians.

They are the cause of segregation, they are the hyper nationalists in macedonia, Its just a shame that after nearly 5 years you still are unable to comprehend this.

And about macedonia being a multicultural state, this is another statement that shows to me that your 5 years living in macedonia was probably spent going to nightclubs in Skopje and Ohrid instead of traveling around macedonia and getting to know macedonian people, culture and history.

Macedonia is NOT a multi-ethnic state. It is a home for the macedonians, that respects and treats its minorities well.

[nitanee]

Welcome Nitanee, what were your reasons for moving to Skopje?

Business (not me, my parents). I will be moving back to the US this summer to go to university, but my plan is to come back here after uni.

Sorry to dig deep and I hope you aren’t offended..........but you may have noticed some animosity towards the United States displayed on this Forum not you personally I just want you to know how the US has never been our friend and alley it certainly is not our friend when it insists we need to Negotiate with Greece.

Don't worry, I'm not offended. I know my country can be a dick a lot of the time. Just keep in mind during the discussion that I don't personally deliberate US policy in the Balkans and I don't necessarily share my government's views.

By the way, could you link me to stuff about us wanting to partition Macedonia in the past? That surprises me and is a little disheartening if true. I read that Greece and Serbia were entertaining ideas like that in the early 1990s, but I haven't heard about any American involvement.

I agree that the school issue is serious, but Macedonians having to learn the language of a minority that is less than 20% is not the solution. There are many minorities in Macedonia, so are Macedonians now obligated to speak everyone's language? Let's not make this complicated, the solution is simple. Macedonian is the official language, it should be the lingua franca. This is the language everyone has in common!

Well I do agree that Macedonian has to be the main language here and that everybody must know it regardless of ethnicity.

Can I ask you whether you have an intimate knowledge of the framework agreement?

I wouldn't say 'intimate', as I haven't perused its clauses and their consequences, but I have heard good and bad things about it.

Before you preach to other people just because you've lived in their country for a few years, go and apply your standards in your own 'home' country, if you really are an American that is. It is because of your government and their support for ethnic Albanian extremism that Macedonians find themselves in this pathetic predicament.

First of all, we have no official language in the US. English is de facto official, but there is no law that affirms this. Several states, New Mexico for one, do promulgate their laws in English and Spanish.

Secondly, I am not trying to 'preach' to you guys, I just stated my opinion. It's worth a grain of salt and I'm not claiming it's a pearl.

Hey nitanee, why dont you allow Alaska and Hawaii to be independent from the USA? You seem to think Kosovo and perhaps one day western macedonia should be independent because it was never "slav" so why not Alaksa and Hawaii

I do agree with self-determination, but I think it needs to be treated seriously. Peaceful co-existence should always be the first goal and only after this is completely impossible would I consider separation. Thus, I would oppose western Macedonia becoming independent because there is no justification for it, the Albanians here are not persecuted, etc.

But alas thanks to yankee meddling and support we have seen the rise of segregated schools, starting from the bastard monstrosity called the University of Tetovo.
It is the albanians that do not want to go to school with macedonians or non-albanians. This basically mirrors the same attitude that they project on everything macedonian. They dont want to speak the same language as us, they dont want to have the same flag as us, they dont want to follow the same rule as us, they dont want our country to have the name we want, heck they dont even want to be in the same country any more.
Its because from a young age albanian kids are taught to hate and disrespect macedonians.

They are the cause of segregation, they are the hyper nationalists in macedonia, Its just a shame that after nearly 5 years you still are unable to comprehend this.

No, I do recognize that the main problem comes from the Albanian community's attitude. I don't think I ever said you guys were to blame, and if I implied it, I'm sorry for misleading you. My opinion is that this can be changed (gradually) via education.