Macedonian Think tank!

[Phoenix]

False comparison.
Slavic migration marked a great change to the northern part of Macedonia.Change in customs and Language.

freifraud, I think you've bared your hairy 'greek' arse...again

[Risto the Great]

Do you want to say there wasn't supposed "Slavic migration" tot he southern part of Macedonia?

Ha ha ... good point. Of course the Southern Macedonians are pure Greek according to FF. Le le we had a lying grche here all the time. I should have known based on the dumb arsed comments.

[Bratot]

False comparison.
Slavic migration marked a great change to the northern part of Macedonia.
Change in customs and Language.

You may dream yourself with sandals...but this seems just ridiculous

Do you want to say there wasn't supposed "Slavic migration" to the southern part of Macedonia?

Let me guess, they stopped exactly on the modern state border between R. of Macedonia and Greece?

And more about this supposed migration on this thread which I already recomended to you but you refused to join:

Archaeological reconstruction of Slav migrations

Purely academic sources.

[freifrau]

Are you good at maths?
Can you work out the numbers required to prove your slavic migration theory?
Do you know what word almost all Slavic derived languages use to describe Germans as? Do you know why?

Meinst du "Niemcy" ?

So what ?

-----

As for "my theory"...open your eyes. It is not a "theory" ,it is a reality accepted in all univeristies of the world.
Serbians,Bulgarians,Bosnians,Croatians do not deny it too.

Why do you deny it/>? to fit in your sandals?

[Bratot]

Wow, a new way of looking at it .... Alexander was the "Ancient King of a pre-Slavic Macedonia". What about a "Ancient King of a pre-Ottoman, pre-Roman pre-Slavic Macedonia" ... it has more panache and drama attached to it. And if this is to be accepted as fact, then the "Greek Macedonians" are quite simply "Former Slavic Macedonians and imported ethnicities of various extractions".

Either way, the article represents the absolute worst of the arguments against Macedonians and the Center for Strategic and International Studies needs to be questioned as to how closely their spasticated opinions are aligned with USA's intentions.

This idiot was active as a lobbyist for Kosovo in the past, than factioned across Macedonia in 2001 and continued to make money on the cost of the Balkan people.

He is misusing the CSIS for his agenda but CSIS has been in a huge debt as well over 1 milion$ lost and that's the main reason why they allow such cheap propaganda to be made by Bugajski.

CSIS is one of the better think-tanks in Washington but there are many more influental such as the Heritage, Brookings, CATO, Hudson, Hoover etc.

This report may have some influence, but surely not strong.
Anyway, to let the biggest 'whore' to write a report about you is equally bad.

This Bugajski must be exposed on every possible way.

[Pelister]

Looks like the New Greeks are getting a little more sophisticated. Good analysis Bratot. The markers you provide are spot on.

There isn't a single point there that accepts us the way we are, nor how we wish to be known.

Every term is a blatant violation of that legal principle the right to self determine.

And added to that every term subverts our historical identity, our ethnic roots and our culture.

[Risto the Great]

Wow, a new way of looking at it .... Alexander was the "Ancient King of a pre-Slavic Macedonia". What about a "Ancient King of a pre-Ottoman, pre-Roman pre-Slavic Macedonia" ... it has more panache and drama attached to it. And if this is to be accepted as fact, then the "Greek Macedonians" are quite simply "Former Slavic Macedonians and imported ethnicities of various extractions".

Either way, the article represents the absolute worst of the arguments against Macedonians and the Center for Strategic and International Studies needs to be questioned as to how closely their spasticated opinions are aligned with USA's intentions.

[Bratot]

This shameless idiot needs to be expossed Onur, his biased text only speaks about the Greek perversion penetrating deep in the ass of State Department.

[Onur]

This fool openly advocate for Greece, so far that he uses the economical bankrupcy of Greece as an argument why the pressure on Athens should not be a option in these difficult times for their Government!

He also express their disappointment for other NATO and EU members because according to him, they don't do enough pressure upon ROM government and this gives ROM self-confidence for being a member without obeying Greek demands.

Whatta critique!!!, . He doesn't give a base or a proper reason for that but nevertheless, he expects from every NATO and EU members to put more pressure upon ROM to make you obey Greek demands!!!


I don't know about EU but i am sure that ROM can be member of NATO soon, without any compromise.

[Bratot]

With the help of Mango we found about another marginalized "opinion maker" - JANUSZ BUGAJSKI who based his 'career' on his Anti-Russian articles.

Bugajski is a regular contributor to various U.S. and European newspapers and journals. His recent books include America’s New European Allies (Nova, 2009); Expanding Eurasia: Russia’s European Ambitions (CSIS, 2008); Atlantic Bridges: America’s New European Allies, with Ilona Teleki (Rowman & Littlefield, 2007), Cold Peace: Russia’s New Imperialism (Praeger, 2004), and Political Parties of Eastern Europe: A Guide to Politics in the Post-Communist Era (M.E. Sharpe, 2002).

It seem he got frustrated because nobody cares about his opinion on Russia, so he tries to make a "come back" with serving the Greek propaganda about Macedonia.

He is working in the "Center for Strategic and International Studies":

At a time of new global opportunities and challenges, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) provides strategic insights and policy solutions to decisionmakers in government, international institutions, the private sector, and civil society. A bipartisan, nonprofit organization headquartered in Washington, DC, CSIS conducts research and analysis and develops policy initiatives that look into the future and anticipate change.

is another lobbying agency to deliver ordered opinions.

Lets recognize the well known "arguments" of the Greek propaganda machinery:

1.

2.


This fool have even found a space to repeat his anti-Russian frustration in between his ordered propaganda on the bottom of this page.

3.

http://csis.org/files/publication/100917_Bugajski_WesternBalkans_WEB.pdf

The MARKERS of the well known Greek propaganda:

1. Slavic Macedonian - using the "Slavic" component to determine another identity for Macedonians
2. Albanian threat - as a tool to intimidate Macedonian stability and future with some violent scenario
3. Claiming the Greek exclusivity on the ancient Macedonian history
4. Territorial claims - as the biggest Greek fear
5. Geographycal name as suggestions for the name of Macedonia - 100% in hand with the Greek demands
6. Recognizing the Macedonian identity as "Slavic Macedonian" instead of Macedonian which clearly serve the purpose to eradicate Macedonian ethnic identity.
7. The economical stagnation - of course the solution to secure the progress by selling our name.


This fool openly advocate for Greece, so far that he uses the economical bankrupcy of Greece as an argument why the pressure on Athens should not be a option in these difficult times for their Government!

[Bratot]

До самитот во Лисабон во ноември, НАТО нема да може да реши ниту еден од сегашните стратешки цели, Авганистан, односите со Русија и односите САД - ЕУ, но може да го затвори случајот Македонија, смета аналитичарот на Центарот за трансатлански релации на универзитетот Џон Хопкинс, Курт Вокер, кој до мај минатата година беше амбасадор на САД ВО НАТО.

Можеме да направиме прогрес за името и да ја вратиме Македонија назад на колосекот за членство во НАТО и ЕУ. Со тоа би ја поддржале движечката сила во регионот. Прво што би направил би ја ставил Македонија на агендата на НАТО самитот во ноември во Лисабон и ласерски прецизно би се фокусирал на решавање на проблемот со името“, изјави Вокер во дебатата по извештајот на центар за стратешки и меѓународни истражувања во Вашингтон за состојбата во западно-балканскиот регион.

http://a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=127944

"We can make progress on the name and restore Macedonia back on track for membership in NATO and the EU. With that we would support the driving force in the region. First I would do I would put Macedonia on the agenda of the NATO summit in November in Lisbon and with laser precision I would focus on resolving the name issue" - said Walker in the debate on the report by the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington for the west -Balkan region.

Another one underlining the interest in USA to push for a solution within next months.

[Bratot]

If we systematically complete the mosaic it's becoming relatively easy to reveal that all moves of the international factor are leading to: redefining, decomposing, apartioning ...or demacedonization of our state.

The future will show which is the exact intention.

According to the facts, the goal is the Macedonian people to lose their state.

It is certainly the easiest way to close the "Macedonian question", which still is open by all our neighbors.
If there is no Macedonian state, there will be no problems.


Thus, the national identity of Macedonian people, its language, culture, history ... will only be inevitable collateral damage - a result of a lost state.


The events of 2001 had a significant role in the implementation of these plans.
It still seems to us that they were merely a result of the developments in Kosovo and greater Albanian aspirations and nothing more.
But it is not: 2001 is a very important stage in the process of demacedonizing the state.
Ohrid agreement clearly confirmed that.

Throughout this galimatias, Athens is just initiator of this formal process, while the interests in it are significantly wider than the Greek aspirations.

In fact, his top carriers are other (very important) international factors:

1. First step - recognition of the state.
After the breakup of Yugoslavia, the EC Commission estimated that Macedonia has met the conditions for recognition. Brussels ignored it and did not recognize the state. Why?



2. The EC in June 1992 (Lisbon), on the recognition of the country has put impossible condition - not to use the name (word) Macedonia!
This requirement, in one form or another is the current all the time, but especially today: the state can only be accepted if it is not Macedonian. Why?



3. For about 18 months Athens imposed a complete economic blockade, closing the southern border. The north border no longer worked because of the UN sanctions on Yugoslavia. We were left with no rail links with the world. Nobody reacted although it was contrary to the provisions of GATT (Article 5) that internationally guaranteed free transit of (our) goods (by Greece). It took almost two years, which is enough to destroy even much stronger country than ours. The European court dismissed the case pretending that the blockade never happened. Why?
4.
UN, ignoring its own constitution (Charter) did not recognized the existence of a Macedonian state, and questioned its name.
Promise to solve the "problem" in a few months was a pure deceit to swallow the injustice.
They must have been knowing that their plan was not going to be achieved quickly.

http://www.mpil.de/shared/data/pdf/pdfmpunyb/wood_1.pdf

5. The Interim Agreement, signed in 1995 and deposited at the UN, was in 75 % in favor of Greece, but we got the guarantee clause that will be not block in our Euro-Atlantic integration.
This clause, however, proved to be an obstacle in realization of their plans.
The eventual entry into NATO and the EU, under the provisional reference, would significantly diminish the chances to take off the character of the Macedonian state.
After he(they) realized that that this obligation in the IA will complicate the situation, Nimetz said publicly that the agreement no longer applies!
Why for if not for this clause, which prevents any blockage of our integration into NATO and the EU, and now it is their major triumph card against our country?

We have witnessed many statements where it's clearly underlined to us: "If you want to enter EU/NATO you have to change your name!"

The cards have been slowly opened and the international factor is now without masks: playing with open threats and blackmails.

Their position is accurate: either the state will not be Macedonian, or no membership in NATO and the EU.

I just wanted to maintain the purpose of this thread against the erosive nature of FF posts.

Here is the specific role of EU.

[Sovius]

A student of ethnography who is neither interested in the phenomenon of ethnocide or learning more about what it truly means to be and to have been Macedonian? Fascinating. I see a bright future in the fast food industry for you fraulein.

I’m putting my money on disgruntled male American teenager of Greek ancestry (Greek in the exclusive modern national and, therefore, artificial sense of the term).

Excellent response Bratot.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Have i ever said i am Macedonian ?

I couldn't care what you actually are, just don't pretend to be something you're not.

Actually in German it could be "schake"

That's not in line with your previous spelling, show some consistency in your lies.

I guess you live in a world that only Greeks and traitors exist!

You're not the only person in this world, and yes, only a Greek or a traitor would suggest 'Vardar' Macedonia. Try a little harder to cover your tracks you lying imbecile, we weren't born yesterday, but perhaps all of the people in your little demented world were.

[Rogi]

I am really interested in the opinion of the others and that is all.
Some people here are really immature -they could be children i think..
Some go further more being rude and insulting.
Some are extreme nationalists and racists.

Yet, those are the only posts that you seem to respond to. My earlier post is neither immature, nor rude and insulting, nor is it based on any extreme nationalism or racism. Perhaps you ignored it because it was well-reasoned?

freifrau,

Whilst you have just generalised about the people of this forum, and by extension the Macedonian people, you have blatantly ignored my post on page 6 of this thread which I would argue does not fit into the sweeping generalisations you have just made and you have also disregarded what I have clarified for you about the inappropriateness of your inconsiderate use of the word 'compromise' to term something entirely different.