Washington Behind Terrorist Attacks in Macedonia

[fyrOM]

Prolet how the Shiptari get their money does not negate Julie and Jankovskas point that it was the USA supporting the Shiptari to destabilize Macedonia. Whether or not they paid for this support or how the money was raised does not alter the fact that they deliberately helped them against us. In fact the issues you raise about prostitution and drug running only further detracts from the USA for accepting dirty money to support them. Stop dangling your feet on this side then that side of the fence

Julie, Keep in mind that this article is 10 years old, if it was written now it would be different. But since then two US administrations have changed so its been a long time coming.

Prolet how does 10 years old alter the facts. How would it be written different now with more spit and polish and spin to smooth out the bad bits. No because if they tried to smooth out the bad bits there would only be one line some stuff happened back then and the USA made it all better now.

Prolet just keep remembering to dangle both feet on onside then the other because if you get confused and dangle one on this side and one on the other the fence might disappear in the crack.

Macedonians have a lot of old sayings. Remember the one about the lisica od kol na kol…

[Buktop]

Buktop, I understand how you feel you are from there.

Do you think Ramo will go down after this? 2km of heroin, with tens of thousands of euros in cash aswell as over 250 pieces of armed weapons found (Mameto negovo)

If it was in Asia he would get the death penalty

He is definitely getting a hefty prison sentence, but he is only one man (and not one of the leaders...)

[Buktop]

Prolet how the Shiptari get their money does not negate Julie and Jankovskas point that it was the USA supporting the Shiptari to destabilize Macedonia. Whether or not they paid for this support or how the money was raised does not alter the fact that they deliberately helped them against us. In fact the issues you raise about prostitution and drug running only further detracts from the USA for accepting dirty money to support them. Stop dangling your feet on this side then that side of the fence

Julie, Keep in mind that this article is 10 years old, if it was written now it would be different. But since then two US administrations have changed so its been a long time coming.

Prolet how does 10 years old alter the facts. How would it be written different now with more spit and polish and spin to smooth out the bad bits. No because if they tried to smooth out the bad bits there would only be one line some stuff happened back then and the USA made it all better now.

Prolet just keep remembering to dangle both feet on onside then the other because if you get confused and dangle one on this side and one on the other the fence might disappear in the crack.

Macedonians have a lot of old sayings. Remember the one about the lisica od kol na kol…

I could also say that because Albanians sell drugs in Australia, and Australian officials accept money from Albanian lobby that they also directly support Albanians...

I do not deny that the Clinton administration deliberately helped Albanians, my point in posting the Brooklyn Connection documentary was to show the power of the Albanian lobby and the power of the Albanian mafia in the US.

[Prolet]

Buktop, Spolaj Ti

How the hell does he have 7 cars? Apparently he has Mercs and BMW's

He owns alot of shops in Struga, Pizza shops and Slatkarnici.

[Buktop]

Buktop, Spolaj Ti

How the hell does he have 7 cars? Apparently he has Mercs and BMW's

He owns alot of shops in Struga, Pizza shops and Slatkarnici.

Well he makes a very large amount of money running drugs from Macedonia to Germany, Switzerland and France, then launders the money through his business'. His house is huge also.

[fyrOM]

Buktop your reply is moronic. I know from previous posts in other threads that you are much smarter than that and your post is well beneath you.

If the Albanians sell drugs in Australia or any other place for that matter it does not make the government directly complicit. Even if they received money from the Albanians it would be difficult to prove complicity. The USA had armed trainers standing shoulder to shoulder with the Albanians when they were shooting at us . No other government had armed men standing with the Albanians. No other country had their men bussed out when surrounded. No other country franticly threatened to bomb us if the surrounded Albanians were fired upon because they did not have their own men standing in the line of fire. No other government then released the Albanians claiming tanks sopped them and Albanians in the tanks demanded the Albanians in the busses be released. No other government made such a blatant lie when you consider the Albanians did not have any tank. Julie and Jankovska were right in saying it was the USA all the way and to pull up Prolet on his flimsy excuses and I’m making this reply because for someone as intelligent as you your reply was way beneath you or are you adhering to their motto right or wrong my country first.

[julie]

Cheers OziMak, my sentiments.

[Prolet]

OziMak, Buktop's reply was spot on and he proved it with video footage. Havnt you heard the old saying "Kolku Pari Tolku Muzika" ???

The Albanians payed up, if we pay them they would sell us weapons, bring in vojnici you can do anything with money. We couldnt raise $1 million bucks when our country was at war so dont blame the Albanians for paying up. That Shiptar in the video raised $30 million for the Kosovo Conflict what more do you want? When Ramush Haradinaj was called in for war crimes the Albanians raised $8 million to defend him how much did we raise for Johan??

Money talks in the end and i think you know that, dont blame Buktop we have ourselves to blame we cant blame the others pushing their interests. I suggest you watch that video that Buktop posted with all the parts and see how they work.

[Phoenix]

OziMak, Buktop's reply was spot on and he proved it with video footage. Havnt you heard the old saying "Kolku Pari Tolku Muzika" ???

The Albanians payed up, if we pay them they would sell us weapons, bring in vojnici you can do anything with money. We couldnt raise $1 million bucks when our country was at war so dont blame the Albanians for paying up. That Shiptar in the video raised $30 million for the Kosovo Conflict what more do you want? When Ramush Haradinaj was called in for war crimes the Albanians raised $8 million to defend him how much did we raise for Johan??

Money talks in the end and i think you know that, dont blame Buktop we have ourselves to blame we cant blame the others pushing their interests. I suggest you watch that video that Buktop posted with all the parts and see how they work.

Bullshit Prolet, what happened to Macedonia in 2001 was part of America's wider geo-political interests, the shiptari were merely used as a means to achieve those ends...sadly many of our North American friends continue to kiss America's arse and pretend all is good with the relationship and that it was shiptar money that was the root of the evil...

[Prolet]

I dont dispute what you are saying Phoenix, but tell me something do you think America would do it all for nothing? You know how it all works, they payed up.

[fyrOM]

Prolet you are really dumb or playing dumb with a statement like this

I dont dispute what you are saying Phoenix, but tell me something do you think America would do it all for nothing? You know how it all works, they payed up.

Prolet even if the Albanians didn’t pay up as you say the USA would have helped them because they are supposed to be the posterboy of what the USA wants Muslims to be. Its all part of the line we don’t hate Muslims we only hate the terrorist who happen to be radical Muslims. Radical bad and here is an example of how you could be. Some people say actions count so there needs to be some big help happening that you can point to. Helped the Muslims in Bosnia helped the Muslims in Kosovo and bombed the hell out of Christian Serbs helped the Muslims in Macedonia. See the USA is more then just words.

You need to remember the USA is a slut. And like a slut if its good for her to be with this hour she will and if its good for her to dump you for someone else if circumstances change she will. And like a smart slut if she can convince you to pay for the help she wanted to do for you anyway for her own reasons all the better. As well as its good to get money to cover your own costs she is playing up to the Albanian chauvinist macho mentality of being strong shrewd cunning and knowing how to make a deal. The Albanians are happy with the physical outcome and if it also makes them feel good the illusion that they are shrewd businessmen who know how to make a deal the USA is happy to go along with the illusion. A slut will let you call her Jane or whatever the hell name fits with your fantasy. Her real name doesn’t matter. Get it Prolet.

The Macedonians didn’t count. We were firstly apposing their posterboy and were also seen as weak disorganized and full of traitors. A tiny bunch of scumbags who nobody would really miss. Then came surprise. Jeepers creepers these guys do have some lead in their pencil. Hell no stop everything we will bomb you to the stone age if you kill off the Albanians. Then came surprise some more. The reforms we have been undertaking have been at a fantastic pace. Remember news articles praising the pace of reforms. These guys actually aren’t as dumb as we thought. Then Macedonia trains up to nato standards quick smart and per capita is right up there with the number of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and also they’re crack troops earning praise regularly. Remember the I cant exactly remember Montana or Virginia troops who wanted and lobbied the USA government for over a year to be imbedded with them. We keep our economy in check. Far out who are these Macedonians.

Circumstances change lets be buddies but could you not knock the Albanians and what do we do with the Greek problem. We needed the Greeks for so long but we cant kick our new buddies. I know we will let Greece and the eu kick them around. If they give in we can always say it was not our fault. Call yourselves north new or whatever floats your boat. Kind of sound familiar like slut Prolet. But if you don’t give in we want you to remember we stood right by you the whole time on the name thing right.

The above is not irrelevant but it is beside the main point. Whether they were paid or not and whether it was dirty or clean money is irrelevant. They stood shoulder to shoulder with gun in hand with people shooting and killing us. This is wrong regardless if you were paid to do it or not. Period. This one point is what I didn’t like about Buktops reply. Otherwise what are you saying the USA are our friends so lets play but if someone pays them enough in the future they will bomb us anyway and these are the kinds of friends we should aspire to have.

Buktops video only shows the USA were paid to hold a gun and stand shoulder to shoulder with the Albanians when they were trying to kill us. Are you seriously saying this is somehow ok. Get it now. Or is this one of those American quirks. I know its hard for Americans even Macedonian Americans to say their country is a slut but every point you raise and every bit of video evidence you produce does not exonerate the USA. In fact it just proves it more. Get it now.

From what I remember of those days I think the make face save face was the advisers were private USA citizens and not USA policy to cause a coup in Macedonia but irrespective of this we cannot let you massacre the Albanians human right you know and maybe you should listen to their grievances if they feel so aggrieved to need to take up arms. And hence we have the all famous agreement. Another thing the USA can wave and say to the wider Muslim world see we actually do like Muslims and we help them even against Christians because they’re not radical fundamentalists. Do not listen to those radical fundamentalist who say we are against Muslims. You too can be like the Albanians and get our help. This has always been the real reason.

One might ask why were the Albanians chosen to be the poster boy instead of someone else. The decades of strict communist rule made them look like the fundamentalism had been knocked out of them. Who else better to start with.

[Onur]

Actually, USA`s policy is some kind of variation of classic British foreign politics. They support all kinds of movement for their personal benefit. If there is no movement at all, they can create one as well with their CIA.

You know, USA created Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan against Russians and they gave them lots of weapons but after Russians gone, they wanted to destroy these two terrorist movement.

If you noticed, Usama Bin-Laden always recorded his videos with his own USA soldier uniform given to them by Americans at Russian war. Probably just to show current contradiction...


Also Turkey found some evidences of CIA support to PKK terrorists but they always denied. You know, currently PKK`s base at northern Iraq, which is basically a USA soil but they neither do anything to stop PKK nor they let Turkey to interfere to Northern Iraq. USA and northern Iraq Kurdish regime tells Turkey to don't enter Iraq for any reason, at least once in a month.

[fyrOM]

The USA contradictions are many Onur. You are absolutely right about PKK and Northern Iraq and USA absolute support for the Kurds.

Another absurd contradiction is in Afghanistan the farmers grow drugs because the can make more money than growing food. The USA are supposed to be anti drugs. Most of the worlds opium about 90 percent is grown in Afghanistan because of lack of law.

Now that the USA are in Afghanistan they could just destroy the drugs before they ever get to the streets of USA and police need to risk their lives every day to stop the drugs. Not to mention all the USA citizens wasted lives because of drugs and the crime they make to get their money for drugs. How many people die in USA because of drugs. The USA answer for not destroying the drugs let the farmers grow it and make money because they are very poor and the USA army will concentrate on catching the drug lords buying the drugs before they leave Afghanistan. Would it be cheaper to make the Afghanistan people grow food so the country has more food and give them a subsidy for the difference in price for not growing drugs. Sounds like a stupid answer from the USA except if also you are the drug runner. These wars have to get paid somehow.

[Onur]

The USA contradictions are many Onur. You are absolutely right about PKK and Northern Iraq and USA absolute support for the Kurds.

Another absurd contradiction is in Afghanistan the farmers grow drugs because the can make more money than growing food. The USA are supposed to be anti drugs. Most of the worlds opium about 90 percent is grown in Afghanistan because of lack of law.

Now that the USA are in Afghanistan they could just destroy the drugs before they ever get to the streets of USA and police need to risk their lives every day to stop the drugs. Not to mention all the USA citizens wasted lives because of drugs and the crime they make to get their money for drugs. How many people die in USA because of drugs. The USA answer for not destroying the drugs let the farmers grow it and make money because they are very poor and the USA army will concentrate on catching the drug lords buying the drugs before they leave Afghanistan. Would it be cheaper to make the Afghanistan people grow food so the country has more food and give them a subsidy for the difference in price for not growing drugs. Sounds like a stupid answer from the USA except if also you are the drug runner. These wars have to get paid somehow.

%100 agree to you.


I just wanna state some additional facts about it;

While Taliban was in charge of Afghanistan, the country`s share on heroin in the world dropped as low as %5-6 because Taliban is a radical islamist group and anything related with drugs was a sin. I remember that they were hanging opium producers. Then USA occupied there and currently Afghanistan supplies about %90+ of world`s heroin. Also i saw in the discovery channel documentary, some Afghan families living in the abandoned and semi-destroyed buildings, using heroin all day long, even their 5 year old kids because heroin is like free there atm.

AND guess who transports afghan heroin to the Europe????
It`s PKK ofc. Heroin comes to Iraq from Afghanistan, then Kurds handles the rest. They either transport to their camps in Greece or uses Turkey to bring it to Europe. Also PKK got several EU supported organizations, tv channels, bureaus in Europe. It`s piece of cake for them to transport the drug and do the money laundry in these organizations.

It`s billions of dollars business. As long as people demands it, someone will supply it and if it`s billion dollar business, big players will somehow involve in it. At least they have to control who earns this amount of money otherwise it can cause trouble for them.

[Buktop]

The above is not irrelevant but it is beside the main point. Whether they were paid or not and whether it was dirty or clean money is irrelevant. They stood shoulder to shoulder with gun in hand with people shooting and killing us. This is wrong regardless if you were paid to do it or not. Period. This one point is what I didn’t like about Buktops reply. Otherwise what are you saying the USA are our friends so lets play but if someone pays them enough in the future they will bomb us anyway and these are the kinds of friends we should aspire to have.

I never condoned it, I don't know how you derived my posts as making light of American support, I gave you a documented and well supported motive for American involvement with Albanians...

Buktops video only shows the USA were paid to hold a gun and stand shoulder to shoulder with the Albanians when they were trying to kill us. Are you seriously saying this is somehow ok. Get it now. Or is this one of those American quirks. I know its hard for Americans even Macedonian Americans to say their country is a slut but every point you raise and every bit of video evidence you produce does not exonerate the USA. In fact it just proves it more. Get it now.

No one in this thread has said it was ok, nor has anyone tried to make light of the fact that Americans were working with Albanians... you need to understand WHY they were working with Albanians. Why the hell do you think I am posting video evidence of Albanians paying off government officials?

I also want you to understand that the Albanians are particularly fond of paying off Democratic party members in the US, that is why they have a street and a statue of Bill Clinton.

From what I remember of those days I think the make face save face was the advisers were private USA citizens and not USA policy to cause a coup in Macedonia but irrespective of this we cannot let you massacre the Albanians human right you know and maybe you should listen to their grievances if they feel so aggrieved to need to take up arms. And hence we have the all famous agreement. Another thing the USA can wave and say to the wider Muslim world see we actually do like Muslims and we help them even against Christians because they’re not radical fundamentalists. Do not listen to those radical fundamentalist who say we are against Muslims. You too can be like the Albanians and get our help. This has always been the real reason.

That could be one of many reasons, but I have already given you direct evidence of American officials being paid off... Which is far more convincing and documented.

One might ask why were the Albanians chosen to be the poster boy instead of someone else. The decades of strict communist rule made them look like the fundamentalism had been knocked out of them. Who else better to start with.

Do you have any documentation to support your analysis? Where do you get your information from?