Why is there no proactivity from the Macedonians in the Republic, Aegean and Pirin?

[Risto the Great]

"I ask the forum participants, how does being Macedonian effect you on a daily level? What daily actions affirm your "Macedonianness"? What do you do that promotes Macedonism on a daily/monthly/yearly basis?"

It makes me want to learn more about Macedonians, on the MTO.
I visit the MTO every day!
I post on the MTO daily/weekly/monthly/yearly!

I think you are being modest Makedonche, your commitment to Macedonians in the real world is measurable and broad. I am sure you would agree that the MTO has developed a momentum that should never be interrupted but it must not be viewed as anything useful unless it encourages pride and action at the grassroots level. Action being the key. If it does that, then contributions here will have true value.

[Big Bad Sven]

Well you have done it. Perhaps the same can be said about you and your family and most of us. Or you think you are special, you had some right to do it but they don't? You had right to leave, your parents had the same rights, the Egejci should stay 'Greek' in case they loose it all but the Macedonians should stay 'patriots' and take it? You and the double standards ha? I don't think any of the Diaspora guys should even dare comment on the Bulgarian passports scenario UNTIL you decide to leave your wallets behind, pack 20 kg suitcase and go to MAcedonia to be patriot. Until you are prepared to do you comment is as good as dog shit.

In your opinion, what do you think is going through the minds of the people who run OMO Illenden or macedonians in Pirin Macedonia who have faced brutal or forced assimilation in the past when they see more and more macedonians from ROM come to bulgaria and declare that they are not macedonians but bulgarians (in order to get more schooling or a better paying job?

Just curious....

[Big Bad Sven]

The Bulgarian passports argument isn't a good-one...it holds very little water....

Maybe its not a good argument, and hell maybe i went a bit to far in criticizing the people that get bulgar passports - but i see a lot of similarities between the Aegean macedonians staying quite because they want to fit into greek universities and dont want to loose their high paying jobs, and the macedonians in ROM who need to go to bulgaria and declare that they are "bulgarian" so that they can get a higher paying job and a better level of education and fit into bulgar society.

Unfortunately both groups are in a "no win situation" and have to do "what ever it takes" to "survive".

However i dont like seeing the aegeans getting kicked in the guts when they are on the floor, especially when we people in ROM are perhaps almost as bad as them when it comes to being quite in the presence of our oppressors and not pro-active towards nationalistic goals.

We cant just pick on the one group when infarct every macedonian is guilty of not being pro-active. Whether its the aegeans, the people from ROM that get bulgarian passports or the diaspora. Unfortunately its not just the diaspora that is not pro-active but the aegeans, the pirinci ad pretty much every macedonian population through out the world.

Thats the sad state of the macedonians today, lack of unity and no set goals or objectives to achieve.

[makedonche]

[QUOTE = Big Bad Sven; 41,790] Maybe its not a good argument, and hell maybe i went a bit to far in criticizing the people that get bulgar passports - but i see a lot of similarities between the Aegean macedonians staying quite because they want to fit into greek universities and dont want to loose their high paying jobs, and the macedonians in ROM who need to go to bulgaria and declare that they are "bulgarian" so that they can get a higher paying job and a better level of education and fit into bulgar society.

Unfortunately both groups are in a "no win situation" and have to do "what ever it takes" to "survive".

However i dont like seeing the aegeans getting kicked in the guts when they are on the floor, especially when we people in ROM are perhaps almost as bad as them when it comes to being quite in the presence of our oppressors and not pro-active towards nationalistic goals.

We cant just pick on the one group when infarct every macedonian is guilty of not being pro-active. Whether its the aegeans, the people from ROM that get bulgarian passports or the diaspora. Unfortunately its not just the diaspora that is not pro-active but the aegeans, the pirinci ad pretty much every macedonian population through out the world.

Thats the sad state of the macedonians today, lack of unity and no set goals or objectives to achieve. [/ QUOTE]

BBS
The truth quite often hurts and is difficult to stare in the eyes! However by staring deep into it we will find our true selves and define our true selves, as we are doing here at the MTO. It is time to take it up to the next level, set the goals and objectives and start achieving them! I think this is underway with the formulation of "The Macedonian Cause".

[Jankovska]

This subject is way more complicated, and i see many of you have wrong impresion about some things.

I think that we, the Macedonians who live abroad, in some periods do much more for RoM and other parts of Macedonia, and the Macedonian People, Culture and Heritage, than those who live in Macedonia.

About Pirinska and other occupied / "sold" teritories, on other place and other time. Here i see the subject is Egejska.

I see anger in your comments, about those Macedonians who still live in Egejska, and do not fight for OUR, Macedonian Rights.

"lazy greeks"
"grkomani"
"traitors"

hmm.

Are you all born with awareness of your Macedonian Origin, and aware about the diferences between "greek" and Macedonian?

Are you aware of the level of terror, torture, humiliation, brainwashing and desinformation on which those people were / are put?



ONE of the "QUESTIONS" given to our Macedonian Children, in the complete 20th century, no metter if it was Metaxa´s fascist greece, or some "democratic" version of that puppet of country...

One i can say, most of you are very bad Christians.

You have no idea about so many things concidering Macedonia and Macedonians, the Ortodox Christianity, and you have CHURCH problems in Australia.

if it was not tragic, it would be funny...
(some of you might feel offenced, pls before any cocky reaction, ask for more informations, i will explain you on Macedonian, couse i simply hate writing english...)



I live outside R. of Macedonia more than 10 years, and i dare to speak about the Bulgarian pasports. (and any issue concidering Macedonia)

i despise most of those who tooked it. specialy those idiots who got Bulgarian pass for a car.

Such a gays were betrying our fighters in time of war.

But I would like to know why someone who´s parents or grandparents moved out of Macedonia, should not express his opinion about the Vulgar Pasport issue`? (just one example, there are thousands such examples, like, why the students who went outside Macedonia to STUDY, without Vulgar pasport, have no right to comment those who got vulgar pasport)

Btw, YOU speak about Macedonia and Macedonians from outside Macedonia?

double standarts?

leave your wallet, pack 20 kgs suitcase and move to Macedonia.

than you will have the right to write about Macedonia (following your own logic )

untill than, your comment is as good as...

I am moving back and I am not judging anyone. If you could move and become another nationality so they can. Haha the tough guy despising someone for doing the same things his parents or grandparents did. Bog da cuva. Do you despise yourself and your parents or are you something special?

[Jankovska]

In your opinion, what do you think is going through the minds of the people who run OMO Illenden or macedonians in Pirin Macedonia who have faced brutal or forced assimilation in the past when they see more and more macedonians from ROM come to bulgaria and declare that they are not macedonians but bulgarians (in order to get more schooling or a better paying job?

Just curious....

They are still Macedonians. Get off the blame horse and look at yourself. All of you have become something else. People like you make me sick, its ok for you to do it and your pocket or your family but not ok for them. No wonder the Macedonians in ROM hate you. I do too

[Jankovska]

Maybe its not a good argument, and hell maybe i went a bit to far in criticizing the people that get bulgar passports - but i see a lot of similarities between the Aegean macedonians staying quite because they want to fit into greek universities and dont want to loose their high paying jobs, and the macedonians in ROM who need to go to bulgaria and declare that they are "bulgarian" so that they can get a higher paying job and a better level of education and fit into bulgar society.

Unfortunately both groups are in a "no win situation" and have to do "what ever it takes" to "survive".

However i dont like seeing the aegeans getting kicked in the guts when they are on the floor, especially when we people in ROM are perhaps almost as bad as them when it comes to being quite in the presence of our oppressors and not pro-active towards nationalistic goals.

We cant just pick on the one group when infarct every macedonian is guilty of not being pro-active. Whether its the aegeans, the people from ROM that get bulgarian passports or the diaspora. Unfortunately its not just the diaspora that is not pro-active but the aegeans, the pirinci ad pretty much every macedonian population through out the world.

Thats the sad state of the macedonians today, lack of unity and no set goals or objectives to achieve.

You are not pro active- you are a crying bitch. I think it's people exactly like you who have made the Macedonians not trust the Diaspora, it's people like you with the double standards who have made the Macedonians in RoM realise they are on their own. You make me sick.
Why don't you stop posting shit and concentrate on the right things to do, making sure your family has bread on the table. Koj gi ebe Makedoncite, neka umirat. Uf gadovi kako tebe kolku me nervirat

[Jankovska]

Maybe its not a good argument, and hell maybe i went a bit to far in criticizing the people that get bulgar passports - but i see a lot of similarities between the Aegean macedonians staying quite because they want to fit into greek universities and dont want to loose their high paying jobs, and the macedonians in ROM who need to go to bulgaria and declare that they are "bulgarian" so that they can get a higher paying job and a better level of education and fit into bulgar society.

Unfortunately both groups are in a "no win situation" and have to do "what ever it takes" to "survive".

However i dont like seeing the aegeans getting kicked in the guts when they are on the floor, especially when we people in ROM are perhaps almost as bad as them when it comes to being quite in the presence of our oppressors and not pro-active towards nationalistic goals.

We cant just pick on the one group when infarct every macedonian is guilty of not being pro-active. Whether its the aegeans, the people from ROM that get bulgarian passports or the diaspora. Unfortunately its not just the diaspora that is not pro-active but the aegeans, the pirinci ad pretty much every macedonian population through out the world.

Thats the sad state of the macedonians today, lack of unity and no set goals or objectives to achieve.

Again stop talking shit. The Macedonians who took Bulgarian passports are not slaves they did it because their gov and Diaspora doesn't give a flying fuck to help them. The Egejci are 'victims', slaves whatever not, why don't they raise their voices. It's not the same. I am British by choice, I thought the egejci are not or are they?

[Serdarot]

I am moving back and I am not judging anyone. If you could move and become another nationality so they can. Haha the tough guy despising someone for doing the same things his parents or grandparents did. Bog da cuva. Do you despise yourself and your parents or are you something special?

WTF????????????????????????????????????????????

comment is comment, joke is a joke, irony is irony, and limit is limit

pls watch your mouth.

i wrote that i despise those who got bulgarian pasport.

specialy those who got it so they were able to drive a car with bg registration.

i wrote that such people were "selling" our fighters to the turks and other enemies.

and you are writing that they did the same as my parents or my grandparents?

un-fucken-believeable!

i come from both sides from VERY respective families that suffered HEAVY LOSES in the 20th century.

Narodni Uciteli i Braniteli, Komiti, Vojvodi, Daskali, SERDARI, a NE KODOSHI!

JASNO TI E??? ILI DA TI NACRTAM???

i dont want or need you to respect me, but DO NOT DARE to say a single bad word for my grandparents or other ancestors!

ok, vulgar girl?

[TrueMacedonian]

Guys and Gals please refrain from cursing at each other. Let's focus that energy on answering the original questions of the topic. UMD, AMHRC, Aleksandrov, etc, what do you guys have to say?

[Prolet]

Serdarot, What does a Serdar mean??

Jankovska, You seem to be loosing alot of sympathy about our people these days why is that?? Now this is my whole point here and try to understand me...

If you live in Macedonia and you have nothing to do with a country like Bulgaria then it is a problem actually.. So going to a Bulgarian Embassy and declaring yourself as a Bulgarian out of nowhere meaning none of your parents are Bulgarian then thats plain stupid and disgraceful isnt it? If you live in Bulgaria, pay your taxes there, qualify for a Bulgarian Passport or any other passport just like you qualify for a British Passport then thats fine, since you are a citizen,live there and pay your taxes.

Do you see my concern here Jankovska??

[Jankovska]

Serdarot, What does a Serdar mean??

Jankovska, You seem to be loosing alot of sympathy about our people these days why is that?? Now this is my whole point here and try to understand me...

If you live in Macedonia and you have nothing to do with a country like Bulgaria then it is a problem actually.. So going to a Bulgarian Embassy and declaring yourself as a Bulgarian out of nowhere meaning none of your parents are Bulgarian then thats plain stupid and disgraceful isnt it? If you live in Bulgaria, pay your taxes there, qualify for a Bulgarian Passport or any other passport just like you qualify for a British Passport then thats fine, since you are a citizen,live there and pay your taxes.

Do you see my concern here Jankovska??

I personally don't care about your concerns Prolet, they are your and you should care about them

[Prolet]

Jankovska, You are acusing people of double standards and its not the case. Those people who have Bulgarian Passports dont live in Bulgaria at all, they dont pay taxes there. They simply rock up to a Bulgarian Embassy, sign a document which they declare themselves as Bulgarian and 2 years later they get a passport.

Again im only stating about those people who have nothing to do with Bulgaria whats so ever.

[Mikail]

An interesting read. The petty whims of several grand standers are rather pathetic.

There have been some very good questions suggested/posed and ignored. Here they are again for the loud mouthed louts.

I ask the forum participants, how does being Macedonian effect you on a daily level? What daily actions affirm your "Macedonianness"? What do you do that promotes Macedonism on a daily/monthly/yearly basis?

I think you know it runs in my viens the way it runs in yours bratchko. Will fill you in on my plans when we meet at AMHRC dinner. Promoting Macedonianism is foremost on my mind

The truth quite often hurts and is difficult to stare in the eyes! However by staring deep into it we will find our true selves and define our true selves, as we are doing here at the MTO. It is time to take it up to the next level, set the goals and objectives and start achieving them! I think this is underway with the formulation of "The Macedonian Cause".

The Macedonian Cause was never really dead Makedonche. We appear to have lost our way in recent years. We are coming back though and they really don't know what is coming on its way.

Our antagonists would be reading the posts in this thread with much glee. They would be feeling quite satisfied they have succeeded in their quest to create disunity among us. Rather pathetic isn't it.

A Name Is a Name was a success as it remained focused on one question and one question alone.

What is it about being Macedonian to you?

It was fantastic to see that from Nikola Gruevski to Gospidin Gospodin Stefan, actors, musicians, students, grandmothers, farmers, workers the message was all the same. One voice was heard through the entire film. It received a standing ovation at the first screening. One question was asked and that was;

Will you be going into Greece to tell the story of the Macedonians there?

The answer was "Yes!" "We have to finish getting this story out now and we already have commenced researching parts two and three"

It is very refreshing to see outsiders coming in to do our bidding for us.

Time we too started to speak with one voice.

There has been a very big lack of pro-activity of the Macedonian Diaspora TM. Way too many of us want to be chiefs. Way too many of us bicker. Way too many of us are way too critical.

I think our current generation can be the one to make a difference. We are better educated and many of us have become successful in our chosen professions. It's always the minority who mess things up for the majority. I think pendulum will start to swing in favour of the majority.

[Big Bad Sven]

They are still Macedonians. Get off the blame horse and look at yourself. All of you have become something else. People like you make me sick, its ok for you to do it and your pocket or your family but not ok for them. No wonder the Macedonians in ROM hate you. I do too

You didn’t quite really answer my question……

I would have thought people in OMO Illenden and the pirinci that refuse to declare as Bulgarians ( and face discrimination at work and school, get abused etc) would feel like getting slapped in the face when they see Macedonians from ROM going to Bulgaria and declare that they are bulgars – and then get the respect, better jobs/money and schools that the pirinci have missed out on?

Perhaps that’s why the number of pirinci are dropping off and becoming “Bulgarians” and why OMO Illenden is going now where? If you cant beat them then join them I guess……

Im not on the blame horse, you where, remember? You where the one blaming the Aegean Macedonians for being quite because they are happing pretending to be “greeks” so that they can get their high paying jobs and go to good “greek” schools. This is essentially the same thing as what people in ROM who go to Bulgaria and get bulgar passports do.
If the Macedonians in ROM who are in Bulgaria and getting then”high paying” jobs and getting a “respected” degree from bulgar schools then they should at least be pro-active and help OMO Illenden?
I call you a hypocrite.