Why is there no proactivity from the Macedonians in the Republic, Aegean and Pirin?

[Daskalot]

YouTube - Macedonia is Greek

Why should we behave like the above CLOWNS? We know we are Macedonians, we do not need to convince ourselves or others of who we are by demonstating in the streets! We prefer to let greeks make fool of themselves as they do have a HUGE problem of identity. We have some rights which are not respected, that is true but many Egejci still are ignorant about this rights and how to claim them.

Why do you think they are ignorant about their rights?

[Jankovska]

YouTube - Macedonia is Greek

Why should we behave like the above CLOWNS? We know we are Macedonians, we do not need to convince ourselves or others of who we are by demonstating in the streets! We prefer to let greeks make fool of themselves as they do have a HUGE problem of identity. We have some rights which are not respected, that is true but many Egejci still are ignorant about this rights and how to claim them.

Than shut up and take it. It's simple, you don't want to protest- you are not a victim. You can't have both

[Jankovska]

Jankovska, 1000 Stapa po tugj grb ne bolat its easy to talk on the sideline but if you are in their shoes you wont be saying that. If you look at the villages around Egejska Makedonija they are very poor just like in Pirinska and Mala Prespa in Albania. In the villages they still have Septicki jami as their toilets, the only city thats up to standard is Solun.

Ne gi gledas deka utepani se od Siromashtija? You should see what Pirinska Makedonija is like, Bedotija and they are in the EU.

You make it sound like Greece is a big strong EU country, if thats the case then why dont the Greeks return to live there? They are in the EU,Nato why go live in USA,Canada,Australia if its such a good country? Koj bega od doma kaj sto mu e ubavo i kaj sto ima dobar zhivot?

That's all not true. Pirinska yes, Egej not. If they were so utepani they would have run. They are not. We very well know that Egej feeds Greece, now that's money. While our Strumicki patlidzanki are thrown on the streets the Egejci who are so poor make money of theirs. That's why they don't want to anger the Greeks/. I have no problem with that,my problem is the victim play. ooo look at poor us, we are victims in Greece blah blah blah, but with the Greeks they drink ouzo and eat humus and say opa. Spare the me excuses, I have heard them and until I see action from the Egejci I will not feel sorry for them and I will not spend a single penny.

[vodenka]

Why do you think they are ignorant about their rights?

Most of them do not know that with the Lisbon Treaty, since 31/12/2009, the human rights that are in the EU Fundamental Rights Charter, which does not contain rights that specifically protect minority groups but again insists on the non-discrimination principle and encourages Member States to respect cultural, religious and linguistic diversity, became a legally binding part of EU primary law. This means that Macedonians in Egejska have to be informed of these rights and how to claim them legally, in national or european courts, if are denied. To ask for 'recognition' it does not mean anything if it does not include some respect of our rights. The language classes are a way to start this kind of claims: if we manage to make our people understand that is in the best interest for their children to be taught macedonian language, they will ask to have these classes in public schools, too, because it is in their rights as native population whose mother tongue is the macedonian.

[El Bre]

Prolet, treba da potechi tro krv ako treba. bez da teci krv na nikoj muje gajle. let these natzi dawn c--- suckers do what they please in front of the international media which is sugested if a demonstration should take place. How about Human Rights watch dogs also get an invitation.

Hi Billy,

I've noticed that anytime there is an incident concerning greek neo nazi's, it seems to be ignored by the international media and seemingly gets swept under the rug, even if they are alerted to it. I may sound like a conspiracy whack job, but, can it really be a coincidence?

[Jankovska]

Hi Billy,

I've noticed that anytime there is an incident concerning greek neo nazi's, it seems to be ignored by the international media and seemingly gets swept under the rug, even if they are alerted to it. I may sound like a conspiracy whack job, but, can it really be a coincidence?

Of course it's not but this is where the Diaspora should aim to spend their money. money talks these days. If the Egejci were to fight for their rights it is our duty to help them, get the media involved. But we should not be doing the fighting for them while they drink ouzo and sing opa. No, it's their responsability to fight and ours to support, not the other way around.

[El Bre]

What you say is true Jankovska, although the real question might be, is it possible to awaken people who have been so heavily indoctrinated by the greek school system, have had it drummed into them that their heritage is inferior and should be foresaken for the superior greek identity or just plain intermarried into greek families who don't respect their Macedonian background enough to tell their offspring who they really are?

It's really a monumental task, but, I think the young people are the key, they need to somehow be made to want to ask questions.

[TrueMacedonian]

It seems that there's alot of views and alot of debate about the Macedonians in Occupied Aegean Macedonia. Vodenka, in your honest opinion due to the levity of the situation Macedonians in your neck of the woods face, how can I, a Macedonian who lives in America, help you and the Macedonians in Occupied Aegean Macedonia? What are your thoughts?

[Serdarot]

This subject is way more complicated, and i see many of you have wrong impresion about some things.

I think that we, the Macedonians who live abroad, in some periods do much more for RoM and other parts of Macedonia, and the Macedonian People, Culture and Heritage, than those who live in Macedonia.

About Pirinska and other occupied / "sold" teritories, on other place and other time. Here i see the subject is Egejska.

I see anger in your comments, about those Macedonians who still live in Egejska, and do not fight for OUR, Macedonian Rights.

"lazy greeks"
"grkomani"
"traitors"

hmm.

Are you all born with awareness of your Macedonian Origin, and aware about the diferences between "greek" and Macedonian?

Are you aware of the level of terror, torture, humiliation, brainwashing and desinformation on which those people were / are put?

"you want to be greek, to have for your ancestors Perikles, Heracles, Achiles and all those heroic greeks, or to be descent of primitive sub-human rase as the vulgaroi?"

ONE of the "QUESTIONS" given to our Macedonian Children, in the complete 20th century, no metter if it was Metaxa´s fascist greece, or some "democratic" version of that puppet of country...

One i can say, most of you are very bad Christians.

You have no idea about so many things concidering Macedonia and Macedonians, the Ortodox Christianity, and you have CHURCH problems in Australia.

if it was not tragic, it would be funny...
(some of you might feel offenced, pls before any cocky reaction, ask for more informations, i will explain you on Macedonian, couse i simply hate writing english...)

I don't think any of the Diaspora guys should even dare comment on the Bulgarian passports scenario UNTIL you decide to leave your wallets behind, pack 20 kg suitcase and go to MAcedonia to be patriot. Until you are prepared to do you comment is as good as dog shit.

I live outside R. of Macedonia more than 10 years, and i dare to speak about the Bulgarian pasports. (and any issue concidering Macedonia)

i despise most of those who tooked it. specialy those idiots who got Bulgarian pass for a car.

Such a gays were betrying our fighters in time of war.

But I would like to know why someone who´s parents or grandparents moved out of Macedonia, should not express his opinion about the Vulgar Pasport issue`? (just one example, there are thousands such examples, like, why the students who went outside Macedonia to STUDY, without Vulgar pasport, have no right to comment those who got vulgar pasport)

Btw, YOU speak about Macedonia and Macedonians from outside Macedonia?

double standarts?

leave your wallet, pack 20 kgs suitcase and move to Macedonia.

than you will have the right to write about Macedonia (following your own logic )

untill than, your comment is as good as...

[Warrior]

What you say is true Jankovska, although the real question might be, is it possible to awaken people who have been so heavily indoctrinated by the greek school system, have had it drummed into them that their heritage is inferior and should be foresaken for the superior greek identity or just plain intermarried into greek families who don't respect their Macedonian background enough to tell their offspring who they really are?

It's really a monumental task, but, I think the young people are the key, they need to somehow be made to want to ask questions.

I am not sure if that is true in all instances. I know a family where the wife is a Egejka and the husband is Greek. All of their kids speak Macedonian because the mum taught them, her mum and her grandparents spoke that language and she wanted them to learn it, but they follow Greek traditions such as functions or church goings etc. Because she feels more Greek than Maco and has more common ground with Greeks. Once she said that if she is seen in the Maco community, the Greek authorities might persecute her family back in Egej. Therefore you wont have them standing up and fighting for any rights. She has something to lose to say I am Macedonian and she doesnt feel its worth it to fight for it!. I think you will see that with majority of Egejci in Greece. Would they stand up and say I am Macedonian which might result in their kid not enterig university or effecting the sale of their domati at the market? No way.

The Egejci/Grkomani see themselves as more advanced that the people in RoM and they would rather stick with Greece then ever damage their opprtunities with in Greece. Them being denied to be Macedonian is not a big deal becaus they see themselves as Greeks and brain wash future generation. They are not like the Albanians to stick together and fight for greater civil rights. Once we see them banding together i think the diaspora will come on board extremely quickly. Currently ne se znae koj jade, koj pie i koj placa!! They are shambles!! Perfect example is Vinozito and that poster vodenka. Absolute disgrace!!! They will achieve nothing with such unity!!! Only few Egejci that leave around the world would stand up.

What do you expect from them people when they wouldnt vote for a pro-macedonian party in Greece!! For some reason there are always excuses why they didnt vote. But simple answer is they have cushy lives there and why disturb it. For them being Macedonian is not much of a big deal!!I have been in Solun on holidays and they all know what their background is and where their roots lie, but its irrelevent, as long as their little cafe makes some drachmas, they will be Greeks!! Macedonia will not be in the predicatement with Greece if it wasnt for the pushkari around the world selling themselves out.....

[Risto the Great]

Warrior, you make some very solid points. But I must disagree with you about the Albanians sticking together fighting for civil rights. Clearly the Greek air is different from across the borders because the Albanians in Greece did not even put up a whimper .... unlike the Macedonians (in the "civil" war). The Albanians in Greece are proud Greeks nowadays. It is the perception that Greeks are higher on the culturally developed food chain that empowers these various ethnicities in Greece to embrace Hellenism. It is a mass duping of proportions that we will never see again.

I think it is still the victim or slave mentality that effects all Macedonians that causes this. Why would they feel inferior culturally? I mean, if we compare the Greeks to the French, then the French have an air of sophistication that the Greeks wished and dreamed about 100 years ago. The Russians fancied the French as well. So this Greek identity is deeply rooted in a desire to be culturally superior and permeates every aspect of their lives. You don't compare with the French .... well nobody compares with us Greeks because we created democracy, maths, logical thought, alphabets, [insert other dreamy un-qualified attributes here].

Unless pride can be instilled in the Macedonian identity, nothing will ever change. Even if they all learn Macedonian in Greece. Then (as far as they are concerned) they can sound like better peasant farmers. That is what speaking Macedonian means to many Macedonians in Greece.

So, just to weigh in on the debate a little, unless the Republic of Macedonia steps up and implements some powerful initiatives and becomes more representative of what successful Macedonians can be (as opposed to being victims/slaves), there will be no reason for the Macedonians of Greece to discard their newly embraced Greek identity.

[El Bre]

Unless pride can be instilled in the Macedonian identity, nothing will lever change. Even if they all learn Macedonian in Greece. Then (as far as they are concerned) they can sound like better peasant farmers. That is what speaking Macedonian means to many Macedonians in Greece.

So, just to weigh in on the debate a little, if the Republic of Macedonia steps up and implements some powerful initiatives and becomes more representative of what successful Macedonians can be (as opposed to being victims/slaves), there will be no reason for the Macedonians of Greece to discard their newly embraced Greek identity.

Exactly! This has been my contention for quite some time. Build a strong and vital Republic and watch the Macedonians start coming out of the woodwork. As it stands there is no perceived cachet attached to being a Macedonian in Greece. Superficial as it may seem, this is part of what needs to be overcome.

[Risto the Great]

Superficial as it may seem, this is part of what needs to be overcome.

It is not superficial at all EB.
We must not kid ourselves, these people are Greek Nationals. They work there and barrack for their local football teams etc. Being Macedonian represents 1% of their daily thought process I suspect. And I am sure they know who they are, but simply have many other things to do in their lives.

I ask the forum participants, how does being Macedonian effect you on a daily level? What daily actions affirm your "Macedonianness"? What do you do that promotes Macedonism on a daily/monthly/yearly basis?

[Mastika]

Mastika, What do you suggest they do? The Vinozito party is there and there are NGO's like Vodenka's group. You need major backing for protests its not a simple task because Greece is not USA where you rock up to a protest and go home. Our people are isolated and they need to be educated, i agree with Jankovska that they need to help themselves but this is Greece we are talking about here, our own people have trouble going there its a police state even our reporters have been arrested trying to cover a story.

Well Firstly, they need to lobby the Republic of Macedonia and the media to show that they exist. Not conduct lessons and workshops in secret, to avoid persecution blah, blah, blah. This is the 21st century, not 1935. In fact demonstrations against them will only help the cause.

Secondly, in each and every "Macedonian" household, they need to be aware that they are not Greek. Aegeans must start travelling to the Republic of Macedonia. Getting involved there. It is no wonder that Pavle is the leader of the cause, after all he finished University in Yugoslavia (Belgrade i think), not Greece, where he probably realised that it is not so bad being a Macedonian.

Flying the Macedonian flag at events is also a good move. Everyone watches these Aegean dances/festivals with pride, however you can't even see one Macedonian flag. If it gets torn down, simple, you get another one. A cultural partneship between a KUD group from The Republic and from Greece would also foster identity.

[makedonche]

"I ask the forum participants, how does being Macedonian effect you on a daily level? What daily actions affirm your "Macedonianness"? What do you do that promotes Macedonism on a daily/monthly/yearly basis?"

It makes me want to learn more about Macedonians, on the MTO.
I visit the MTO every day!
I post on the MTO daily/weekly/monthly/yearly!