Fields of Wheat, Hills of Blood - Anastasia Karakasidou

[Phoenix]

I am not an apologist for anyone. I dont support Metaxas, or similar fascisms of anyone else. I am not a fascist man. I dont lke superstructures, anyones for that matter. If youre going to tell me Greek was only used in cities by educated circles as a cultural instrument well that is just false. It was used in rural Macedonia also. And yes there were Greek revolts in Macedonia together with Epirus and Thessaly West Macedonia Grevena-Kozani, Halkidiki, outside Salonika etc. And there is alot of pseudo-science here.

Im sure you know the first Macedonian Kingdom was alot smaller then what Macedonia is considered now. Do you think Kosovo and Thrace are part of Macedonia?

I didn't realise Macedonians used the name "Salonika"...

[George S.]

salonika is the greek version of solun.Regarding the language of macedonians it is simply not true to say the macedonians spoke greek.They had their own macedonian language.The ordinary macedonian did not need to speak greek at all because they had their own mother tounge macedonian.But the royal house was the only one that spoke greek for different reasons example trade & commerce.The macedonian royal house also had macedonian as well.So those apologetics don't tell me they spoke greek all the time that's bs if their mother tounge was macedonian.I read some where there are bits of thrace & even kosovo that are considered historically as macedonia.History tells us that people simply took these places when ifact they belonged to macedonia.There are lot's of examples of that

[Louis]

salonika is the greek version of solun.

The Greek name of the city is Thessaloniki. A shorter version in vernacular is Saloniki or in writing Thes/niki.

Salonika is a Jewish version.

I don't know what Soloun is, or when it first appeared. Various sources say it's Old Church Slavonic but recently I had read in THIS forum the original Slavonic text and it called it something else (Selanina or something like that). I can't locate this thread. Can anyone help? Also, can anyone find the first sources using Sol(o)un?

[damian]

So what did you highland Greek speakers call yourselves then? Can you prove your statement that the term was not used in your area 100 years ago? what about 150 years ago?
What religion did you have 100 years ago?

No the term was not used because most of the people were illiterate and spoke vernacular Greek orally. The word Romaois is not in the vernacular but the word "Makednoi" is which is the archaic Greek. Im sure Church officials, administrators etc used it but its not a Greek word.

[damian]

Funny thing happening here, you are labeling Macedonians with every label in the book to deny their right to their land and history. A very typical behavior by an oppressor. Why do you use the terms Exarchist, Makedonci and Bulgarophiles when you speak of Macedonians but only the term Greek in reference to Greeks?

Please explain this behavior of yours!

Those terms are used to describe organisations and ideologues not everyday people. Why do you deny that other people live in Macedonia and try to explain away their origins and then cry wolf yourself?

[damian]

salonika is the greek version of solun.Regarding the language of macedonians it is simply not true to say the macedonians spoke greek.They had their own macedonian language.The ordinary macedonian did not need to speak greek at all because they had their own mother tounge macedonian.But the royal house was the only one that spoke greek for different reasons example trade & commerce.The macedonian royal house also had macedonian as well.So those apologetics don't tell me they spoke greek all the time that's bs if their mother tounge was macedonian.I read some where there are bits of thrace & even kosovo that are considered historically as macedonia.History tells us that people simply took these places when ifact they belonged to macedonia.There are lot's of examples of that

Thats ridiculous "Macedonia" didnt even exist at one point in history. It was called Emathia. I will say it again alot of pseudo-science here and alot of pseudo-debate based on ideology and propaganda.

[damian]

The Greek name of the city is Thessaloniki. A shorter version in vernacular is Saloniki or in writing Thes/niki.

Salonika is a Jewish version.

I don't know what Soloun is, or when it first appeared. Various sources say it's Old Church Slavonic but recently I had read in THIS forum the original Slavonic text and it called it something else (Selanina or something like that). I can't locate this thread. Can anyone help? Also, can anyone find the first sources using Sol(o)un?

Yes I will use the Jewish name for it.

[damian]

Why bother providing evidence since you will deny or rationalise it for your own platform? I will just say IMRO and Okhranists etc had their own policy. What do you think would have happened if Macedonia became "independant" parts of it would have broke off to join Greece or other states and there probably would have been civil war as well. Do you understand what I mean when I say all the theses can be criticized and not just with discourse?

[DraganOfStip]

Why bother providing evidence since you will deny or rationalise it for your own platform? I will just say IMRO and Okhranists etc had their own policy. What do you think would have happened if Macedonia became "independant" parts of it would have broke off to join Greece or other states and there probably would have been civil war as well. Do you understand what I mean when I say all the theses can be criticized and not just with discourse?

You deceiving Greek bastard,IMRO of Vanco Mihailov was a totally different organization from the original IMRO of 1893,it was a pro-bulgarian organization and Ohrana was a bulgarian paramilitary organization that not only fought against Greeks but also against the Macedonian volunteers in DAG in the Greek civil war because they fought for joining Aegean Macedonia with the Macedonian republic in Yugoslavia.So it was the Bulgarians that did these alleged massacres (that we are yet to see evidence of) of yours,not the Macedonians.The majority of the people in pre-1913 Macedonia were Macedonians,Greeks became majority after the exodus of our people and settlement of the "imported" Greeks from Asia minor.And so Lerin became Florina,Kostur became Kastoria,Voden became Edessa and Solun became Thessaloniki and anything Macedonian was suppressed and erased from Greek schoolbooks.But then again,if you truly was Macedonian,you would have known all this now,would you shpion eden?

[damian]

You deceiving Greek bastard,IMRO of Vanco Mihailov was a totally different organization from the original IMRO of 1893,it was a pro-bulgarian organization and Ohrana was a bulgarian paramilitary organization that not only fought against Greeks but also against the Macedonian volunteers in DAG in the Greek civil war because they fought for joining Aegean Macedonia with the Macedonian republic in Yugoslavia.So it was the Bulgarians that did these alleged massacres (that we are yet to see evidence of) of yours,not the Macedonians.The majority of the people in pre-1913 Macedonia were Macedonians,Greeks became majority after the exodus of our people and settlement of the "imported" Greeks from Asia minor.And so Lerin became Florina,Kostur became Kastoria,Voden became Edessa and Solun became Thessaloniki and anything Macedonian was suppressed and erased from Greek schoolbooks.But then again,if you truly was Macedonian,you would have known all this now,would you shpion eden?

You are saying they never took part in the Okhrana? That it was all Bulgarians etc? That they didnt join SNOF en masse as oppurtunists when the war was ending? That they didnt mislead the people? No what I know there are all kinds of people who live in Macedonia. Thats what I know. And if you are looking for origins and purity etc you are like a blind man at best and a propagandist, ideologue to boot at worst. And that you are just as bad as the other side. And I didnt call anyone names no need for that.[/QUOTE]

[DraganOfStip]

You are saying they never took part in the Okhrana? That it was all Bulgarians etc? That they didnt join SNOF en masse as oppurtunists when the war was ending? That they didnt mislead the people? No what I know there are all kinds of people who live in Macedonia. Thats what I know. And if you are looking for origins and purity etc you are like a blind man at best and a propagandist, ideologue to boot at worst. And that you are just as bad as the other side. And I didnt call anyone names no need for that.

The only Macedonians that would join the Ohrana would be the Exarchate-brainwashed Mihailovists,no true Macedonian would fight against his own people and for foreign interests.Macedonians that joined the SNOF were mainly Macedonians that came from the ranks of the Yugoslav partisans in WWII,with the only goal of joining Aegean Macedonia to the part of Macedonia that was in the Yugoslav federation.That's why Macedonians rushed to join SNOF in great numbers,an estimated 60% of DAG were macedonian fighters.And who said anything about purity?All I stated was that Greeks were a minority in Macedonia prior 1912\1913 and that it was only after the annexation of the Aegean part and the forcible expulsion of the Macedonian population from their homeland and importing "Greeks" from Asia Minor that they became the majority in the Aegean part.Which part of it didn't you understand?Macedonia just like any country in the world isn't homogenous in the ethnic sense,but it was YOUR people that did most of the massacres against the non-Greek population of Macedonia in the period of 1912-1948,I strongly ask you to show me otherwise.So far it's been nothing but talk from you about the ethnic cleansing of Greeks by Macedonians,we're still waiting for anything that will corroborate your claim.Come on,enlighten us.

[Risto the Great]

Dragan, spot on. Damian will not be with us much longer. We have little need for duplicitous cockroaches.