The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

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  • Carlin
    replied
    Жабата ја освојува Грција : )



    PS:

    The most widespread term in mainland Greece is the Vlach term broasca > braska, which is a term of Late Latin origin (which also occurs in some Western Romance languages/dialects: Old French bruesche, Milanese Lombard brosco).

    "Mysteriously", the Vlach term braska covers an extensive portion of the Peloponnese.

    PPS:

    The Arvanites introduced to the places where they settled Albanian terms such as "bertikosa" (Alb. bretkose), and "thithiliopa" and/or "thliopa". A variant of "thitiliopa" is "firfiliopa", which is a development of Arvanitovlach origin.
    Last edited by Carlin; 04-15-2023, 01:24 PM.

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  • Carlin
    replied
    ô[1795] After the French Revolution, the French intend to extend their ideas and interests to the East. The French consuls detect and seek among the modern Greeks, collaborators sensitive to their revolutionary and liberating calls. For obvious reasons, the Kodzabashis and priests are rejected and only the Vlachs of Morea (= Peloponnese) are proposed for any liberation-revolutionary movement. These Vlachs settled in the whole of Morea from Aetolia-Akarnania, after being forcibly relocated there from Vlachia (= Thessaly) by the emperors of the East."


    Archives du Ministre du Affaires Etrangeres, Correspondance Consulaire Naplee de Romanie, 1778-1824, le 14 Messudor, an 6, f. 51v, 52r-. [Letter from "citizen" Roussel, vice consul, to the French general in charge of eastern affairs in Corfu.]

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  • Carlin
    replied
    Baltic soldiers fighting during the classical period in the mediterranean

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  • Carlin
    replied


    Euboea
    Near Karystos are two races of Albanians, originally, probably, from Andros. One of these races is quite savage; they speak Albanian, and never change their clothes. The others are ordinary Albanians. Up to Stoura this race prevails. Then comes a mixture of Greek islander and Albanian, many from Psara; higher up, from Skiathos, Skopelo, Trikeri, and neighbouring Thessalian islands. One streak intervenes in the centre of Euboea, which, from costume, and language, seems to come from Amphissa.

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  • Carlin
    replied
    Meme: "Greeks and Iranians in Real Life"



    (Xenophon of Athens describes Persian POWs as "white skinned")

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  • Carlin
    replied
    A Cypriote woman does an ancestry dna test. Results start after 3 min. mark of the video.

    Only 2% Greek:

    Αν θέλετε να βλέπετε την μούρη αυτή πιο συχνά κάντε subscribe εδώ: https://www.youtube.com/c/DiaryWingsΓεια σας ταξιδιωτάκια μουΚαλως ορίσατε σε ακόμα ένα β...

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  • tchaiku
    replied
    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    Chart showing the Y-DNA haplogroups among the Hellenic mercenaries from the recent paper:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nrken19/s...DTubrmxOYrAAAA
    The Y-DNA of old Greeks from their Golden Era is radically different from Modern Mainlanders. The deep paternal lines associated with the old Greeks found so far barely reach 25% in Peloponnese and even less in more northern regions.

    We need a bigger sample size but still I don't think much will change.
    Last edited by tchaiku; 11-03-2022, 06:24 PM.

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  • Carlin
    replied
    Found the paper - URL:



    Significance

    By studying genome-wide data from 54 individuals from eighth- to fifth-century Sicily, we gain insights into the composition of Classical Greek armies (ca. fifth c. BCE) and the populace of a Greek colony. The presence of mercenaries in Greek armies fighting in the Mediterranean, as early as 480 BCE and with origins as far away as northern Europe and the Caucasus, is absent from historical texts and thus so far underappreciated in ancient classical scholarship. Our interdisciplinary study both underlines the value of integrating genetic studies to complement archaeological and historical research and highlights the importance of warfare in facilitating continental-scale human mobility, cultural contact, and cooperation in the Mediterranean of the Classical period.

    Abstract

    Trade and colonization caused an unprecedented increase in Mediterranean human mobility in the first millennium BCE. Often seen as a dividing force, warfare is in fact another catalyst of culture contact. We provide insight into the demographic dynamics of ancient warfare by reporting genome-wide data from fifth-century soldiers who fought for the army of the Greek Sicilian colony of Himera, along with representatives of the civilian population, nearby indigenous settlements, and 96 present-day individuals from Italy and Greece. Unlike the rest of the sample, many soldiers had ancestral origins in northern Europe, the Steppe, and the Caucasus. Integrating genetic, archaeological, isotopic, and historical data, these results illustrate the significant role mercenaries played in ancient Greek armies and highlight how participation in war contributed to continental-scale human mobility in the Classical world.

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  • Carlin
    replied
    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    BREAKING: Recently a paper came out the on genetics of the Classical period of the Greek army. Here are some of the samples (closets) that has been mentioned as mercenaries

    1. Sarmatians
    2. Balto-Slavs
    3. BA Caucasus-like

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nrken19/s...DRpZ3-wOcrAAAA
    Chart showing the Y-DNA haplogroups among the Hellenic mercenaries from the recent paper:

    Leave a comment:


  • Carlin
    replied
    BREAKING: Recently a paper came out the on genetics of the Classical period of the Greek army. Here are some of the samples (closets) that has been mentioned as mercenaries

    1. Sarmatians
    2. Balto-Slavs
    3. BA Caucasus-like

    Leave a comment:


  • Carlin
    replied
    Leake mentions Vlach villages in Mystras (Peloponnese).

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  • Carlin
    replied
    - According to John Sibthorp (1758 – 1796; in Walpole's Memoirs, p. 141.), "a wandering tribe of Nomads" on the other side of Greece drive their flocks from the mountains of Thessaly into the plains of Attica and BŠotia to pass the winter.

    - Testimony from 1423: Euboea or Evia was also inhabited by Vlachs (Vlachi). (Μνημεία Ελληνικής Ιστορίας - Documents Inedits Relatif a l'Histoire de la Grece au Moyen Age Publias sous les Auspices de la Chambre des Deputes de Grece par C.N. Sathas, Premiere Serie, Documents Tires des Archives de Venice (1400-1500) Tome III, Paris MDCCCLXXXII [1882]).

    [Valachos/Vlachi lived in Zitouni (Lamia) and Negroponte (Evia).]

    - 1470: the Duke of Messina in NE Sicily was a Vlach (Ulacho).

    - 1481: Koroni, in Morea, was inhabited by Vlachi.
    Last edited by Carlin; 06-17-2022, 08:19 AM.

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  • Carlin
    replied
    In 1553, in Salona (now Amfissa), Agrafa and Thessaly lived Vlachs who "were both good Christians and good people."

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  • Carlin
    replied
    Testimony of Robert Curzon (1810-1873), of 1849, for his visits, in 1834, to Epirus, Macedonia and Thessaly where he met "Albanians who spoke the Vlach language".

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  • Carlin
    replied
    Constantine Buhayer (University of Westminster, London) states that "many of the Greeks of Crimea were Ellinovlachi".

    Originally posted by Onur View Post
    The so-called Crimean Greeks were native Turkish speakers with Tatar dialect, all of them without any exception. Already, when they came to Greece, they didn't know a word of Greek.

    Their origin is quite clear. We even have books of the western European travelers from 1390 AD which notes the existence of christian Tatars in Crimea, converted by both Byzantine orthodox and western catholic missionaries.

    Crimea has been inhabited by Goths [`till 17th century], Turks [`till 20th century] and slavic speaking Ruthenians [to become Ukrainians laters]. I don't think there was any Greeks or Vlachs in there throughout history.
    Vyron Karidis, The Mariupol Greeks: Tsarist Treatment of an ethnic minority ca. 1778-1859 - Pages 66 & 67:

    - "By the late 1770s the Russians, probably in an attempt to weaken the theoretically independent Crimean Khanate, encouraged a great part of its non-Muslim population (Christian Armenians, Georgians, Vlachs and Crimean Greeks) to emigrate to the steppes of Azov."

    - "The exodus started in July 1778. To Alexander Suvorov's report, who played a leading part in the Christian emigration, 'Greeks, Georgians and Vlachs,' left from 68 various parts of the Crimean peninsula..."


    PS:
    And here's how I came to that conclusion. http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/History/FilikiEteria.html Philiki Eteria was a "greek" secret society that started before the "greek" war for independence. The founders were 3 "greek" merchants from Odessa. Their names are 42-years old Nikolaos Skoufas
    Last edited by Carlin; 05-14-2022, 09:30 PM.

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