The Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil Kanchov, who was he?

[Bratot]

First, there is no mention of 'Albanians'.

Second, there is no indication they lived on the territory of RoM before 14th century.

Заселването на албанците в Долни Дебър е позволило тяхното пнататъшно придвижване в източна посока.

В съседната област Горна Река, лежаща около поречието на р. Радика, албанците вероятно са се установили трайно още през XIV в. Може да се приеме, че Горна Река и Полог са първите западномакедонски области, в който още през XIV в. е имало масови заселвания на албанци.

Първото свидетелство за наличието на албанци в Горна Река е гореспоменатият османски данъчен регистър от 1467 г.

Тук албански лични имена преобладават в села със славянски названия като Вълковия, Търница, Кракорница, Стрезимир, Рибничица(121). Смесеният етнически характер на вилает Река не е убегнал от погледа на османския данъчен регистратор.

http://www.imir-bg.org/imir/books/albanci_v_iztochnite_balkani.pdf

Third, the 'Albanians' were nomadic migrants, they often removed from one to another place and this doesn't imply their authochtonous existance in the regions they migrated.

n.
1.A member of a group of people who have no fixed home and move according to the seasons from place to place in search of food, water, and grazing land.
2.A person with no fixed residence who roams about; a wanderer.
[French nomade, from Latin nomas, nomad-, from Greek nomas, wandering in search of pasture.]

Fourth, one Arvanite rich family is known to live in Ohrid, not 'Albanians' in plural.

There is another place called ?the town of Ohrid which is also called Dibra ?and which is an archbishopric. This town of Ohrid has a fine countryside, which earns it well over twelve thousand ducats of gold. This region belonged to Lord Groppa who was married to Lady Chiranna, the second daughter of Lord Andrew Muzachi the Despot, and since he had no heirs, it belongs to us.

Во отоманскиот попис од 1452 - 1453 година, се забележани само 32 албански семејства на територијата на цела Македонија и тоа 31 семејство во вилаетот Калканделен (Полог) и 1 католичко семејство во Скопје.

The Ottoman census from 1452 - 1453 year, recorded only 32 Albanian families throughout Macedonia, 31 family in the vilayet Kalkandelen (Polog) and a Catholic family in Skopje.

http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B8

[VMRO]

Keep up the good work Daskalot!

Is there anything more about Albanians by Vasil Kanchov?

I ask because a friend of mine who know Macedonian translate to me some passages of G. Pulevski. If I am correct Pulevski did not see Albanians and Macedonians (of his time) as two distinct people. He noticed some similarity between two ethnic groups. Is that true?

Vasil Kanchov had this to say about the Albanians:

"The Arnaut inhabitants in Macedonia are rude forces that terrorize, hurt and depersonalize the Macedonian Christian people. Arnauts present something that causes horror in the Macedonian country." - Vasil Kancov, Selected Works pg 379.

[Epirot]

Epirot, which 'Byzantine' accounts make reference to Albanians living in Ohrid?

In a collection of Byzantine accounts for Albanians (published in Albania 'Byzantine sources about Albanians from X-XV century) are listed all Byzantine chroniclers who wrote for Albanians. One of them, L.Chalcocondyles makes known that Albanians used to live in outskirts of Aegean Sea.

Indeed, the center of the Albanians remained the river Mat, and in 1079 AD they
are recorded in the territory between Ohrid and Thessalonika as well as in Epirus.

http://www.101languages.net/albanian/history.html

[Epirot]

Vasil Kanchov had this to say about the Albanians:

"The Arnaut inhabitants in Macedonia are rude forces that terrorize, hurt and depersonalize the Macedonian Christian people. Arnauts present something that causes horror in the Macedonian country." - Vasil Kancov, Selected Works pg 379.

It is an extremely biased statement since Albanians at the time were human being not aliens. Albanians suffered the same fate as Macedonians. Those who try to depersonalize and dehumanize us were Bulgars, Greeks and Serbs.
While Albanians did their best to liberate Macedonia from Ottomans, Serbs and Nazi-Fascists.

1. Struggles against Nazi-Fascism

The expanding effort of the Macedonian people and nationalities — the Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Serbs, Romanies, Jews and others — anticipated the massive anti-fascist and liberation insurrection.

~ Macedonian review~ Kulturen Život - 1995

Part of the Albanians in western Macedonia joined the armed resistance led by the CPY, and later by the Communist Party of Macedonia (CPM). The first partisan company consisting solely of Albanians was formed in the middle of July 1943. It strongly agitated the Albanian population, leading to the influx of new Albanian fighters. This number increased further after the capitulation of Italy, when entire Albanian carbine companies, which used to act within the Italian occupational system, defected to the resistance. Some of their fighters became distinguished commanders of large military units, as is the case with Hamdi Dema and Tom Gjela. The commander of the Debar partisan detachment, Hadzi Leshi (also known as Captain Leshi) was particularly respected and popular with the Albanian population.

With the anti-fascist resistance in Macedonia flaring up, several Albanian brigades were formed. The Albanian detachments from Debar and Kichevo were known as the 4th Albanian Brigade, led by Nejat Agoli and Jafer Kodra. Later this brigade was renamed the 7th Albanian Assault Brigade, with around 2,500 fighters, who participated in the liberation of Struga, Kichevo, Gostivar and Tetovo.

The Albanians from Macedonia contributed greatly not only to the liberation of Macedonia, but also to the final operations in the liberation of Yugoslavia. Famous Albanians - national heroes that died during the anti-fascist struggle - include Bajram Shabani, born in Lipkovo, and Ibe Palikukja and Liman Kaba, from Debar.

http://www.lobi.com.mk/default.asp?I...295AFA303687C8

2. Struggles against Ottomans

For twenty-five years these Macedonians had been organized into revolutionary fighting bands, the ‘Macedonian Committee’ for the liberation of Macedonia and Albanians from the Turks, and had struggled, not only against the Turks, but against foreign armed bands of propagandists.

http://books.google.com/books?id=suq...page&q&f=false

3. Struggles against Serbian occupation

Охридско-Дебaрско вoстание

The Ohrid-Debar uprising (Macedonian: Охридско-Дебaрско вoстание; Bulgarian: Охридско-Дебърско въстание) was an uprising in Western Macedonia in September 1913. It was organized by the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO) and by local Albanian leaders against the Serbian occupation of the regions of Ohrid, Debar and Struga.
The rebellion started only two months after the end of the Second Balkan War. Local Albanians and Macedonians, led by Petar Chaulev, Milan Matov and Pavel Hristov expelled the Serbian army and officials, creating a front line 15 km east of Ohrid. A local administration was set up in Ohrid under the leadership of Lev Ognenov.[1]
After a fortnight of fierce fighting, a Serbian army of 100,000 regulars suppressed the uprising.

I cannot realize why some Macedonians today are having pro-Serbian sympathies!? Have they forgotten their history? How could they consider Serbs as a friends of Macedonian people when Milloshevic publicly attempted to annex North-Eastern Macedonia, specifically Skopje-Crna Gora in his attempts for so called 'Republic of Karadak'.

Inspired by his promptings, Macedonia's Democratic Serbian Party, formed after the republic declared its indipedence, set about trying to establish a separate 'Karadag Republic' in the northern parts of the country where most Serbs live: Skopska Crna Gora (Skopje Black Moutain) and KUmanovska Dolina (Kumanovo Valley)

Burimi: http://books.google.com/books?id=BYa...dolina&f=false

Therefore stop seeing Albanians as enemies of Macedonian people. We have common interests and common enemies!

[VMRO]

It is an extremely biased statement since Albanians at the time were human being not aliens. Albanians suffered the same fate as Macedonians. Those who try to depersonalize and dehumanize us were Bulgars, Greeks and Serbs.
While Albanians did their best to liberate Macedonia from Ottomans, Serbs and Nazi-Fascists.

1. Struggles against Nazi-Fascism





2. Struggles against Ottomans



3. Struggles against Serbian occupation

Охридско-Дебaрско вoстание



I cannot realize why some Macedonians today are having pro-Serbian sympathies!? Have they forgotten their history? How could they consider Serbs as a friends of Macedonian people when Milloshevic publicly attempted to annex North-Eastern Macedonia, specifically Skopje-Crna Gora in his attempts for so called 'Republic of Karadak'.



Therefore stop seeing Albanians as enemies of Macedonian people. We have common interests and common enemies!

I think he is referring to the outlaw bands that terrorized the villages in Macedonia, not the Albanian people in general.

[VMRO]

Epirot, i don't see the Serbs as friends, however many Serbs don't have a problem with Macedonians nor do many Macedonians as well, Albanians on another hand had a recent conflict with the Serbs (Kosovo), so it is understandable that they hate each other, their hatred is fresh.

[Bill77]

Therefore stop seeing Albanians as enemies of Macedonian people. We have common interests and common enemies!

Epirot,

Firstly, do you mean "Ethnic Albanians in ROM" when you ask us to stop seeing "Albanians" as enemies?

If so

Secondly, are you serious?

[VMRO]

Epirot,

Firstly, do you mean "Ethnic Albanians in ROM" when you ask us to stop seeing "Albanians" as enemies?

If so

Secondly, are you serious?

There are many good Albanians, however, Epirot, you need to acknowledge that there are some in Macedonia who work against the state they live in.

[Epirot]

Epirot, i don't see the Serbs as friends, however many Serbs don't have a problem with Macedonians nor do many Macedonians as well, Albanians on another hand had a recent conflict with the Serbs (Kosovo), so it is understandable that they hate each other, their hatred is fresh.

Saying that Serbs haven't problem with Macedonians is equal inaccurate as to say that Greek haven't problem with Macedonians. Firstly, Serbian Orthodox Church do not recognize independence of Macedonian Church. Secondly, some Serbs are trying to show Macedonians as Serbians or descendants of medieval Serbs.

[Epirot]

Epirot,

Firstly, do you mean "Ethnic Albanians in ROM" when you ask us to stop seeing "Albanians" as enemies?

If so

Secondly, are you serious?

I have a bit a problem of understanding you! Is there any difference between Albanians in Republic of Macedonia and others outside it?

I am serious when I say that Albanians aren't enemies of Macedonians because history tells of a traditional good relationship between two peoples. Political circumstances causes that Albanians and Macedonians are friends of each other since both of them share the same destiny of being divided by neighboring countries like Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece.

[Epirot]

There are many good Albanians, however, Epirot, you need to acknowledge that there are some in Macedonia who work against the state they live in.

Albanians officially recognize state of Macedonia. If they struggle for more political rights and having a better status does not mean that they're a priori against Macedonian state. Albanians won't to be segregated by State only because they're Albanians.

Macedonia's Constitution says:

II. BASIC FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL AND CITIZEN

1. Civil and political freedoms and rights

Article 9

Citizens of the Republic of Macedonia are equal in their freedoms and rights, regardless of sex, race, colour of skin, national and social origin, political and religious beliefs, property and social status. All citizens are equal before the Constitution and law.

Albanians won't be discriminated or to be punished innocently by Macedonian police who in many cases terrorize Albanian families. Albanians seek only to recognize their rights according to Ohrid Agreement in which even Macedonians were agreed to solve problems between two sides.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Epirot, you have been respectful enough since you have been here, but seriously, the Ohrid agreement is a national betrayal where Macedonians are forced into negotiating the status of their nation-state with Albanians. There are issues between our people that need to be addressed. Macedonia is the nation-state of the Macedonians and home to all its people, minorities and citizens. Macedonians should hold the same leading position in Macedonia as the Albanians in Albania do, as the Croats in Croatia do, etc. The ethnic Albanians in Macedonia deserve all of the rights that other minorities have, and nothing more. They are not a special case, and they should respect the country they live in rather than behaving like separatists, extremists and negators. Not all ethnic Albanians are enemies of the state, but an increasing number are, which is a shame.

Put yourself in our shoes and then ask yourself how long you would tolerate the 'Greek' community in Albania putting up Greek flags all over Gjirokaster, not allowing authorities to access certain villages, disrespecting the state they live in, calling for national treason by supporting a name change of Albania, etc.

[makedonin]

I have met Albanians that are respectful and can be good commrads.

Still, the problem is with the Albanians such as Menduh Taci and the whole UCK bunch that chose the arms to fight for secession of Territory from the R. of Macedonia. Ofcourse that was masked under the pretext of Human rights disguise.

They are still up to this idea, and they are following the Kosovo model. The one who denys this is either ignorant or a liar.

There are enough political and institutional means to pursue the human rights. They have a Political parties, their Envoys in the parliment.

I don't see the Albanians with German or American passports doing the same things to their respective National States, Germany and America, as what they do in the R. of Macedonia, even though they don't have their own parties and envoys for pursuing their human rights.

[VMRO]

Saying that Serbs haven't problem with Macedonians is equal inaccurate as to say that Greek haven't problem with Macedonians. Firstly, Serbian Orthodox Church do not recognize independence of Macedonian Church. Secondly, some Serbs are trying to show Macedonians as Serbians or descendants of medieval Serbs.

I agree on those levels Epirot, i was basically referring to the normal citizens, not political or religious bodies.

Same as the Albanian people, majority of the normal citizens of Albanian ethnicity do not have a problem with their neighbors, however political bodies and organisations are a different matter.

Sorry if you misread my previous post.

[VMRO]

The Ohrid agreement was not needed, Albanians already enjoyed their rights and implementation of the Ohrid agreement did not change many things in my eyes for the conditions of the Albanian people, they enjoy privileges all other minorities in Macedonia enjoy.

In my eyes, the Ohrid agreement was just a sham for Albanian mafia disguised as politicians in a ploy to obtain control.

Political parties are the same, isn't it funny that when Albanian parties are in opposition they become nationalistic, once they enter the coalition with the Macedonian party that won the elections, you will hardly hear from them for the next 4 years.

At the end of the day, political parties don't give a damn about Albanians or Macedonians, they only care about themselves and their future as politicians to bring in a steady cash flow for the future.