What's in a name?

[Daskalot]

JohnMKD has asked ,
What's in a name?

Our old neighbors from India will give you this answer:

http://translate.google.com/#en|hi|World%20of%20Mother%20

You may check out for yourself.
After pressing of sound button (google chrome providing it )
You can even hear the Haven voice pronunciation

Wow, Makedonija has Indo-European roots, fascinating Homer, thank you for this.

[Daskalot]

I never implied this Bill77. Don't put words in my mouth. I said THEY spoke a language let's say 90% Macedonian and 10% Bulgarian. This means that they could understand you and you could understand them, no?

How in the world did you come to this conclusion and even giving it a %, when you are not even a native Macedonian speaker.

[Risto the Great]

My grandparents were calling it "edopika", which in Greek means "local one". But I'm sure they could perfectly carry a discussion with you guys using it.

Yes, it might have even been "endopika". Your grandparents were too scared to call it Macedonian. They lost the ability to say that word publicly in Greece. It completely fell out of favour and became the language and ethnicity that cannot be named in Greece. What a silly insecure State Greece was and is. I am sure you would agree.

Notwithstanding your 90% Macedonian, 10% Bulgarian and 100% Greek language, please take the time to read the following article:

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3066

You will read of a 500 year old language that your Grandparents could understand 100%. It makes the modern Greek language look like the fast food of the Balkans in comparison. Somewhat artificial and done to keep you happy for a short time.

John, your cup is full. Even though you admit your people spoke a non-Greek language, but now you speak a Greek language, you cannot see the contradictions in this modern debate. Let us know when this charade can end with dignity for you.

[Makedonetz]

Risto bravo bratko awsome information i bet this is going to make them grci flip their skirts ahahahahahah

[Onur]

Yes, it might have even been "endopika". Your grandparents were too scared to call it Macedonian. They lost the ability to say that word publicly in Greece. It completely fell out of favour and became the language and ethnicity that cannot be named in Greece. What a silly insecure State Greece was and is. I am sure you would agree.

Notwithstanding your 90% Macedonian, 10% Bulgarian and 100% Greek language, please take the time to read the following article:

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3066

You will read of a 500 year old language that your Grandparents could understand 100%. It makes the modern Greek language look like the fast food of the Balkans in comparison. Somewhat artificial and done to keep you happy for a short time.

John, your cup is full. Even though you admit your people spoke a non-Greek language, but now you speak a Greek language, you cannot see the contradictions in this modern debate. Let us know when this charade can end with dignity for you.

I agree to you RTG. Thats why i was asking from you guys to have a mercy for him. Most of Greeks are like him. They just don't know.

They think that their grandparents`s Turkish or Macedonian tongue was some kind of primitive language, some blabber or a peasant dialect. Thats what they learned for 2-3 generations.

[johnMKD]

John could you please explain what sort of our language means??

I don't know why everybody misunderstood what I said here. I'll be happy to rephrase.

My grandparents were speaking a language that they were calling it "endopika". They have never told me what kind of language this was. Only when I went to school back in Greece, the teachers told us that this language is a micture of the language spoken in Skopje (here, I'm using their exact word, not mine) and in Bulgaria. Therefore, I don't know how to call it and I used the expression: "a sort of your language", ie. "a sort of the Macedonian language".

Risto, maybe you're right when you say that they were actually speaking Macedonian and they were forced not to use the term "Macedonia", but I cannot be certain about that, because they never told me so.

[sf.]

I can't believe people are still indulging this 'scientist', with his head of a Greek, Macedonian torso and Anatolian limbs. (Have I got the percentages right?) Notice his loaded questions, reassurances of friendship, subtle sub-versions and shifts in arguments when caught out. It's all true to form. You will not convince him of anything. If he had really wanted to learn the truth, he would've started with himself before questioning us. I suggest a ban.

[johnMKD]

I can't believe people are still indulging this 'scientist', with his head of a Greek, Macedonian torso and Anatolian limbs. (Have I got the percentages right?) Notice his loaded questions, reassurances of friendship, subtle sub-versions and shifts in arguments when caught out. It's all true to form. You will not convince him of anything. If he had really wanted to learn the truth, he would've started with himself before questioning us. I suggest a ban.

Very well stated indeed, sf.
As I have already written before, I'm doing this research first of all to identify myself.
All the rest are up to you whether you're helping me out or just questioning me every five minutes.

[Risto the Great]

My grandparents were speaking a language that they were calling it "endopika". They have never told me what kind of language this was. Only when I went to school back in Greece, the teachers told us that this language is a micture of the language spoken in Skopje (here, I'm using their exact word, not mine) and in Bulgaria. Therefore, I don't know how to call it and I used the expression: "a sort of your language", ie. "a sort of the Macedonian language".

Risto, maybe you're right when you say that they were actually speaking Macedonian and they were forced not to use the term "Macedonia", but I cannot be certain about that, because they never told me so.

Do you think your grandparents were aware of the Abecedar book? Your grandparents were victims of the Macedonian genocide John. They were not really in a position to comment with a great deal of knowledge. If they were aware of their language remaining unchanged for 500 years, it may well have instilled some pride in their sense of self identity. Instead they were forced to adopt the same fresh identity that was thrust upon the southern regions of Greece some 80 years earlier. They were told all Bulgarians had one eye, they were told there was no such thing as Macedonia and Macedonians. They were only as knowledgeable as they were taught.

Remember, the Macedonian language has remained unchanged for 500 years. It is quite probably safe to assume that it was unchanged for another 500 years before that. And Macedonians are meant to somehow feel they don't compare the the classical beauty of the katharevousa experiment called the modern Greek language ... please spare me.

Can you please play the ratio game with the modern Greek language? You know 20% Turkish, 50% Biblical Koine, 30% experimental archaic Attic. I am just having a guess and am not very good with numbers as a rule, you are the scientist, let us know. Then let us know how the ratios were different prior to 1830.

You say you are here to learn. Why don't you start with your Greek identity? Peel away the layers and have a look at what you are left with.

[Risto the Great]

I'm doing this research first of all to identify myself.

You are whatever you want to be John.
You must exclude the former Turkish christian nationals who now live in the Aegean region of Macedonia, they cannot be Macedonian in any sense other than geographical. You are then left with Vlachs, Albanians and guess what .... Macedonians. Sure the ethnic Macedonians in Greece are confused now ... much like your grandparents. But there is time to make them aware of their history.

[Onur]

My grandparents were speaking a language that they were calling it "endopika". They have never told me what kind of language this was. Only when I went to school back in Greece, the teachers told us that this language is a micture of the language spoken in Skopje (here, I'm using their exact word, not mine) and in Bulgaria. Therefore, I don't know how to call it and I used the expression: "a sort of your language", ie. "a sort of the Macedonian language".

Risto, maybe you're right when you say that they were actually speaking Macedonian and they were forced not to use the term "Macedonia", but I cannot be certain about that, because they never told me so.

I heard similar words like this from like 5-6 different Greek people i met b4. Therefore i am gonna quote my previous message again;

They just don't know. They think that their grandparents`s Turkish or Macedonian tongue was some kind of primitive language, some blabber or a peasant dialect. Thats what they learned for 2-3 generations.

This is the result of Greek education system. They told this to their grandparents about 100 years ago; "You were speaking a false language which has been imposed to you by the Turks but now you will learn the proper language of Homer". This was a total bullshit ofc and they still continue to do that.

They were told all Bulgarians had one eye, they were told there was no such thing as Macedonia and Macedonians. They were only as knowledgeable as they were taught.

LOL, I didnt know that they described Bulgarians as monsters too!!!!

Lemme tell you something similar and this is from 1990s;
When Northern Cyprus opened its borders for regular Greek Cypriots at 1990s, 1000s of Greek Cypriots crossed the border and gone to the Turkish side even with threats and opposition of Greek Cypriot government. There was Turkish tv reporters around to interview with incomers and I clearly remember what Greeks told them, its shown on Turkish tv channels.

Few young Greek people said they were shocked about the Turkish side of Cyprus when they see it with their own eyes because they have been told by their teachers in schools like;

"Turks living in the mountains and in caves like animals, eating raw meat"!!!!!!!!

i was like "WTF" when i heard this on tv !!!!!!!!! How come they believe this???

I can't believe people are still indulging this 'scientist', with his head of a Greek, Macedonian torso and Anatolian limbs. (Have I got the percentages right?)

Hehe, you can say that for the half of Greece`s population

[johnMKD]

Do you think your grandparents were aware of the Abecedar book? Your grandparents were victims of the Macedonian genocide John. They were not really in a position to comment with a great deal of knowledge. If they were aware of their language remaining unchanged for 500 years, it may well have instilled some pride in their sense of self identity. Instead they were forced to adopt the same fresh identity that was thrust upon the southern regions of Greece some 80 years earlier. They were told all Bulgarians had one eye, they were told there was no such thing as Macedonia and Macedonians. They were only as knowledgeable as they were taught.

Remember, the Macedonian language has remained unchanged for 500 years. It is quite probably safe to assume that it was unchanged for another 500 years before that. And Macedonians are meant to somehow feel they don't compare the the classical beauty of the katharevousa experiment called the modern Greek language ... please spare me.

Can you please play the ratio game with the modern Greek language? You know 20% Turkish, 50% Biblical Koine, 30% experimental archaic Attic. I am just having a guess and am not very good with numbers as a rule, you are the scientist, let us know. Then let us know how the ratios were different prior to 1830.

You say you are here to learn. Why don't you start with your Greek identity? Peel away the layers and have a look at what you are left with.

My language is definitely far from the Athenian one or the Katharevousa. What I mean is that is a mixture as you very well said of Greek (Biblical), Turkish and Ancient Athenian. In fact, I was always wondering why the region of Macedonia was speaking perfectly clear Greek, better than any other region in my opinion. Maybe, this happened due to: 1. de-macedonisation of the population and forcement of using the new reconstructed Greek language, 2. massive income of population from south Greece.

As far as Greek identity is concerned, I think that there's no question about that. I was already aware that I was not a direct descendant of Ancient Greeks before joining this forum (as I have already written before). What I want to discover is my true identity. My consciousness has been Greek ever since I was born...but I don't like being dictated of what to believe and what to think any more. It's about time I discovered something beyond that.

[johnMKD]

I heard similar words like this from like 5-6 different Greek people i met b4. Therefore i am gonna quote my previous message again;



This is the result of Greek education system. They told this to their grandparents about 100 years ago; "You were speaking a false language which has been imposed to you by the Turks but now you will learn the proper language of Homer". This was a total bullshit ofc and they still continue to do that.






LOL, I didnt know that they described Bulgarians as monsters too!!!!

Lemme tell you something similar and this is from 1990s;
When Northern Cyprus opened its borders for regular Greek Cypriots at 1990s, 1000s of Greek Cypriots crossed the border and gone to the Turkish side even with threats and opposition of Greek Cypriot government. There was Turkish tv reporters around to interview with incomers and I clearly remember what Greeks told them, its shown on Turkish tv channels.

Few young Greek people said they were shocked about the Turkish side of Cyprus when they see it with their own eyes because they have been told by their teachers in schools like;

"Turks living in the mountains and in caves like animals, eating raw meat"!!!!!!!!

i was like "WTF" when i heard this on tv !!!!!!!!! How come they believe this???









Hehe, you can say that for the half of Greece`s population

Yes, pretty much exactly what we've been told at school: "Turks are barbarians and we should get rid of anything of theirs". That's outrageous. I really hope they have changed the ways of teaching by now. But how is it in Turkey with regard to that? Do they also teach similar things about Greeks?

[Onur]

Yes, pretty much exactly what we've been told at school: "Turks are barbarians and we should get rid of anything of theirs". That's outrageous. I really hope they have changed the ways of teaching by now. But how is it in Turkey with regard to that? Do they also teach similar things about Greeks?

I know this is what they teach you in your schools and I can assure you that this is not the case in Turkish educational system. I also know Greeks demolished, bombed and destroyed around 2000 building and monument made by Turks in today`s Greece. I think only few building left and one 300 year old mosque in Salonika serves as a theater for porn movies atm, so ethiopians and gypsies can jerk off in it.



Also, no one tries to impose something like "You all are %100 Turks" here. We all aware of our ancestors and who we are, where we came from and what was our culture. So, if you try to teach something offensive towards Greece, most of people gets offended by this. You can never do that here.

The ideas of people and patriotism binds the citizens of Turkey to each other, not with our blood,race or ultra-nationalism.

[Risto the Great]

My language is definitely far from the Athenian one or the Katharevousa. What I mean is that is a mixture as you very well said of Greek (Biblical), Turkish and Ancient Athenian. In fact, I was always wondering why the region of Macedonia was speaking perfectly clear Greek, better than any other region in my opinion. Maybe, this happened due to: 1. de-macedonisation of the population and forcement of using the new reconstructed Greek language, 2. massive income of population from south Greece.

The Prosfigi came to the Macedonian region and had to learn Macedonian to communicate with the locals. To this day there are still offspring of the original 1920's Prosfigi who still speak Macedonian. The purest modern Greek does exist there now because no local dialects of Greek existed there prior to the 1920's. They in fact boast about how pure their Greek is. Naturally many proud Greeks in the region fail to understand how an artificially constructed language was adopted in an artificially Greek area.

A massive inflow of population from southern Greece never occurred from what I understand. Although I am aware of smaller numbers.

Some of my relatives there are proud modern Greeks and swear they cannot understand a word when the former Turkish christian nationals speak in their own language. There are no obvious archaic Greek words in the Macedonian language that would influence a modern Greek dialect in the Macedonian region. People often talk of the Greek dialect in the Halkidiki region. It is the same as the Ionian one in Turkey and is a factor of trade relationships and immigration strategy and nothing to do with the Greekness of Macedonia. Their presence was negligible from a statistical perspective.

As far as Greek identity is concerned, I think that there's no question about that. I was already aware that I was not a direct descendant of Ancient Greeks before joining this forum (as I have already written before). What I want to discover is my true identity. My consciousness has been Greek ever since I was born...but I don't like being dictated of what to believe and what to think any more. It's about time I discovered something beyond that.

John, I am not sure there is a "true identity". There are teams and you simply have to pick one. So many Macedonians have become good Greeks, Bulgars, Serbs, Turks and Albanians. It is clear that the qualification rules are not that stringent. Go with your conscience, but don't stand in the way of millions of people like me who have very good reasons to stick with and perpetuate the Macedonian identity.