Greeks involved in wars

[julie]

johnMKD dobro doishlo doma si sega
welcome home bratche

[johnMKD]

johnMKD dobro doishlo doma si sega
welcome home bratche

thanks julie, already feels like home

[Bill77]

Desert Islands: Ransom of Humanity
Neni Panourgiá

Quote: Modern Greece has had a rather “idiosyncratic history,” as the first Greek Nobel laureate, George Seferis, has noted.A country created as the result of German philhellenism and Slavophobia, on the one hand, and British and French realpolitik against the Ottoman Empire, on the other, Greece was established as a sovereign nation in 1832, after a war for independence that lasted roughly eight years (1821 – 29). The notion of the sovereign nation ought to be taken judiciously in the case of Greece, however, as a foreign (German, indeed, Bavarian) king was installed by the Great Powers, followed by a royal family with kinship ties to the British and Danish throne, intermarrying, eventually, with both the Russian and the German royal lines.

Its something we were already aware of. But its good to see that more and more people are aware of this.

But let me now go fwd again and discuss about another Philhellene some aren't aware of but all have heard of him. Greeks know him as The creator of the Macedonian Nation in ROM. pfffffff


Tito

Date: August 27, 1949
Source: World News and Views, Vol. 29, No. 10
Author: Unknown
Transcribed/HTML: Mike B. for MIA, 2005
Proofread by: Anthony Megremis and Hari Kumar

DURING THE last weeks, the Tito clique have increased their world campaign of slander against the Soviet Union . New repressive measures have been taken against Yugoslav Communists who have a real internationalist outlook. New measures, too, have been carried out against Soviet citizens living in Yugoslavia. Moreover, the Tito Government has integrated still more closely with Western imperialism its aggressive policy and actions against the peoples of Greece and Albania.

At first, the Greek monarcho-fascist press treated the Tito descent into the imperialist camp with some reserve. They were jealous that the Titoites would replace them in the hearts, and on the pay roll of the imperialists. Lately, however, a close co-operation has developed between the Titoites and Greek fascists. Tito's decision with regard to Greece, writes the right-wing Greek paper Vema (13.7.49):

"irrespective of the pretexts he gives for this act, represents the fulfilment of an old and persistent aim of Britain and the other Western Powers…No one doubts the honesty of Tito's attitude and his real intention to carry out the announced decision."

In Washington, the Yugoslav Ambassador, Sava Kosanovic, was in conference with Dean Acheson, U.S. Secretary of State, on August 16. The next day the Yugoslav Chargé d'Affaires in Athens had an official meeting with the Permanent Secretary of Foreign Affairs of the Greek Government. The Greek right- wing press referred to this meeting as an "official step towards establishment of friendly relations between the Athens and Belgrade Governments". On August 16, Free Greece Radio reported that Yugoslav troops had shelled the Greek Democratic Army in the rear and flank when re-grouping in the St. Stephanos area, south of the Yugoslav border.

The News Chronicle correspondent in Northern Greece reports (22.8.49) that:

"Although nothing can yet be cabled of the collaboration between Athens and Belgrade, there have been instances of co-operation on a local scale along the border."

Hmmmm not only did Tito close the borders so the Macedonians get cornered and slaughtered, they did some slaughtering them selves over the border.

More to come.

[Bill77]

Before i continue, let me reiterate something. This thread is to show how Greece could not do it alone and if it was not for the west, Greece would not be now as we know it. As i go along chasing information i am learning new things about this proud (only in there eyes) nation when it comes to history of Greece in wars. Now due to further research, i have discovered more about how not only the west (UK-USA) played a big part in the Greek civil/independence war, but also "Tito's" Yugoslavia jumped into bed with Greece and could be credited for the positive outcome for Fascist Greece and the eventual demise of the Macedonians.

May Tito rot in Hell.


The Tito-Plastiras Wedding

Date: May 17, 1950
Source: World News and Views, Vol. 29, No. 44
Author: Theodore Doganis
Transcribed/HTML: Mike B. for MIA, 2005
Proofread by: Anthony Megremis

A FACIST wedding has been officially celebrated. Tito was the bridegroom and fascist Athens the bride. Acheson and Bevin, who acted as best men, have worked hard to keep secret the preparations, aiming at bringing their two Balkan pets together.

But already in March 1949, Tsaldaris, in his capacity of Athens Foreign Minister and diplomatic arch-blunderer, had spilled the beans. Speaking in Corinth to the Daily Mail correspondent in Greece, during the celebration on the reopening of the Corinth canal, he indicated to the correspondent, King Paul, who was standing nearby, and said: "Very soon the King and Tito will be Allies."

True. Tsaldaris was severely reprimanded for this untimely indiscretion both by the Foreign Office and the State Department. But as we say in Greece—"It is from children and fools that one learns the truth." Indeed, only a few months later in the summer of 1949, King Paul and Maharaja Tito proved on the battlefields that they were already virtually comrades-in-arms. They fought together against the Greek Democratic Army. In fact, during last summer's all-out fascist offensive against the Greek Democratic Army defending Granmos and Vitsi, Tito gave the Greek fascists assistance which—as the General Secretary of the Greek Communist Party, N. Zachariadis, put it—"had a decisive influence on the outcome of our armed struggle" and finally forced the Greek liberation movement to a temporary retreat.

Granmos or Gramos and visti are in West Macedonia. Gramos is the infamous place where the very first NAPALM BOMB was applied against Macedonians at the GRAMOS rock


Tito's Aid to Greek Fascism

On the other hand the Vice-Premier of the Athens Government of that time, S. Venizelos, publicly stated: "Without the aid given to us by Yugoslavia we could not have been in a position to achieve such a success." And the Agence France Presse, as reported in the Athens papers of October 18, 1949, cabled that the "diplomatic quarters in Washington considered Tito's role in the development of the situation in Greece, as being at least as decisive as the economic and military assistance rendered by the U.S. to the Greek Government".

In fact, had Tito not joined the imperialist camp, had he not actively helped Greek fascism, the Athens regime would most probably have collapsed by now. So desperate had become the situation for the Greek fascists, as a result of the increasing attacks and the continuous strengthening of the Democratic Army, that the Americans did actually contemplate giving up Greece as a bad job.

It was at this critical juncture that Tito appeared as the Deus ex machina for Greek fascism and for the Anglo-American interventionists in Greece. He saved them both temporarily. And he had to because "Tito knew that only if monarcho-fascism could prevail in Greece, and the Greek Democratic Army were defeated, could he secure his rear and receive assistance from U.S. and Britain." (N. Zachariadis: New Situation, New Tasks.)

Tito, as we saw, has already actively collaborated with Athens against the Greek guerillas. But he made every effort to conceal it. He did not dare admit to the Yugoslav people that he was assisting a regime in Athens which the entire civilised world considers as a gang of fascist murderers. Indeed, Tito's representative at U.N.O., the notorious Mr. Bebler, has directed continuous mock-attacks against Athens, trying to conceal behind this smokescreen of oratory the secret collaboration between Tito and Greek monarcho-fascism.

Athens-Belgrade Axis

However, this collaboration had to become much more close and much more open in order to further Washington's and Tito's plans. The only difficulty was the necessity for Tito to have in Athens a government which he hoped he could sell to the Yugoslav people as "democratic". What kind of government he had in mind he made publicly known in an interview with The Times correspondent, published on April 8. The correspondent asked Tito whether he would co-operate with a Greek Government under General Plastiras. Tito replied that he "could co-operate with such a Government having democratic features".

Thereupon the American boss in Athens, Ambassador Grady, hastened to smooth the path for Tito. He bluntly appointed General Plastiras (the "democrat") as Premier. The new Premier did not lose time. He received the Yugoslav Chargé d'Affaires on April 20. before even having completed his Government. And after the meeting he declared that it was "cordial". It is indicative of the total subservience of the Athens regime to America that Plastiras had to report first to U.S. Ambassador Grady, whom he received immediately after the Yugoslav representative had left him, and then to his Cabinet.

Then it was officially announced that Tito and Plastiras will exchange ambassadors. The Athens press is exuberant in its enthusiasm about the prospects of the swift creation of the Athens-Belgrade Axis. The State Department and the Foreign Office too are extremely pleased. And Ambassador Grady has already arrived in Washington, passing through London, and obviously expecting to get a pat on the back for the good job and receive further instructions for the development of the aggressive American plans in the Balkans.

And how democratic was General Plastiras and his Greek government?




People's Resistance

There is, however, a snag in the whole affair. It is the resistance of the peoples of Greece and Yugoslavia to the creation of the fascist Athens-Belgrade Axis. Tito has little chance of duping the Yugoslav people into believing that fascism has ceased to reign supreme in Greece just because an allegedly "democratic" general has been appointed Premier by the Americans. The people of Yugoslavia have already heard that the Makronisos horror camp—this bloody emblem of Greek fascism—will go on functioning under the new "democratic" Government of Plastiras. They have heard that no general amnesty is to be granted by the Plastiras Government, and that death sentences are still being pronounced in Greece against democratic citizens. Finally, they now know from the Government programme announced in Parliament that the Plastiras Cabinet will follow the fascist path of its predecessors. So the Yugoslav people will well understand that the Athens Government is as democratic as Franco or Tito himself.

The only ones that were fooled, were the Macedonians (under Yugoslavia) that had pictures of Tito in there homes and caffe's.
Next post, i will give a little detail of what happened in this "Makronisos horror camp"

[Risto the Great]

Thanks Bill. Great work.
The "Makronisos horror camp" is known by Macedonians as "Golemoto Skolje".

[Onur]

Greek Media gets though on Greek Cypriots

On the eve of the anniversary of Cyprus Peace Operation, a Greek daily headline reminded the Greek Cypriots that, “The Cyprus issue did not unfold with the Peace Operation”.






On 20th of July, 1974, an ill treatment and slaughter that had been carried out against the members of the Turkish community living in Cyprus, was put an end.

Turkey could not remain silent before the hostile attitude against Turks on the island, performed her “right of guarantorship” and mobilized its troops to bring peace and freedom to the island.

International community, chose to be deaf to the years-long inhuman treatment of Turks, opposed the Peace Operation.

However, Turkey did not hesitate for a second to mobilize its soldiers and just two days after the military operation a ceasefire was declared on the island with the UK and US initiatives.

Turkey carried out a second operation into the island on 14-15 August, 1974.

Despite all years passed by after the Peace Operation, the Greek Cypriot and Greek public opinion still keep blaming Turkey unfairly by being “invaders”.

Yet, on the eve of the 36th anniversary of the Cyprus Peace Operation, a Greek daily published a story questioning the Greek Cypriots for their acts.

“Ta Nae” newspaper said that the Cyprus issue did not come in sight after the Peace Operation as it has been told for years, contrary, it was already exit before Turkey’s intervention.

The Greek daily underlined that Greek Cypriot militia men raided public buildings and Turkish villages in Cyprus which created the necessary conditions for a civil war.

Ta Nea said also that EOKA, a Greece- backed organization founded on island, had carried out massacre against Turkish community and the daily emphasized the responsibility of Greek and Greek Cypriot communities in the tragic violent incidents, which paved the way for the necessary military intervention of Turkey.

The story told that appointment of Nikos Samson, a belligerent anti-Turk gang leader, as the new president of Cyprus by the Athenian junta, was the last straw that forced the Turkish army to launch the Peace Operation.

19.07.2010

http://www.trt.net.tr/trtinternation...1-585d4d4bc39c

Well, this was a big surprise for me but it`s good to see that some of Greeks coming into the senses. It seems that after 36 years, some Greeks started to speak what really happened in the island. It took so long to admit but it`s better than never but it`s too late anymore because i don't think any form of unification with the Greek and Turkish Cypriots is possible anymore. Island is divided forever and it will remain like that.


P. S: I hope one day, they also admit what really happened in the Greek civil war between Macedonians and Greeks.

[TrueMacedonian]

I'm sure someone asked this question already but was there a war that modern 'greece' has ever fought by itself and won?

[Bill77]

I'm sure someone asked this question already but was there a war that modern 'greece' has ever fought by itself and won?

They might have won a battle (defeated the invading Italians during ww2) but evan then i'm sure they would have recieved help.

The strange thing is, immediately after WW2, the Greek Nazi colaborators formed part of the government, or were at least defended by the Greek monarcho-fascist government. And this same government was heavily backed by Churchill's British gov. Go figure.
And the ELAS (The Greek-communist resistance) that were banned by the Metaxa's Fascist Government, and many Macedonians, fought in WW2 against Mussolini's fascist army, all of a sudden had to resist fascism in there own back yard again.

Today, Fascism is still alive and kicking in Greece. I don't know who invented democracy, But it certainly does not exist or never has in modern Greece.

[thessalo-niki]

Well, this was a big surprise for me but it`s good to see that some of Greeks coming into the senses. It seems that after 36 years, some Greeks started to speak what really happened in the island. It took so long to admit but it`s better than never but it`s too late anymore because i don't think any form of unification with the Greek and Turkish Cypriots is possible anymore. Island is divided forever and it will remain like that.
P. S: I hope one day, they also admit what really happened in the Greek civil war between Macedonians and Greeks.

Actually, I think that the original code name of what was to be known in History as "The Peace Operation" was... Ghandi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

_________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[johnMKD]

Well, this was a big surprise for me but it`s good to see that some of Greeks coming into the senses. It seems that after 36 years, some Greeks started to speak what really happened in the island. It took so long to admit but it`s better than never but it`s too late anymore because i don't think any form of unification with the Greek and Turkish Cypriots is possible anymore. Island is divided forever and it will remain like that.

Well, Onur, I also think that no reasonable solution can be found for the island and most likely it will remain split. However, the current state as it is recognised globally for the island (that being Cyprus, and the northern part occupied by Turkey), it only makes life hard for the Turkish Cypriots. This and only this should be a reason for a solution (although I don't see it coming): i.e. a reunification with equal rights for all.

[Onur]

Actually, I think that the original code name of what was to be known in History as "The Peace Operation" was... Ghandi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

It`s called as peace operation in the article because since 1974, there hasn't been blood spilled in the island after years of turmoil. People killed each other for years and Greek junta soldiers even killed around ~2000 communist(according to Junta generals) Greek Cypriots in just 7 days too because they shown resistance to the coup d`etat. Turkish military operation was completed in less than 48 hours by ending the massacres for all. Therefore, it bring peace in the island.

The real codename for the Cyprus operation was the "Operation Attila" from "Attila the Hun".

Well, Onur, I also think that no reasonable solution can be found for the island and most likely it will remain split. However, the current state as it is recognised globally for the island (that being Cyprus, and the northern part occupied by Turkey), it only makes life hard for the Turkish Cypriots. This and only this should be a reason for a solution (although I don't see it coming): i.e. a reunification with equal rights for all.

Unfortunately i don't think any form of reunification is possible anymore. The last chance for it was the Annan plan of the UN. You know over %70 of Turkish Cypriots voted "YES" for the island`s unification and accepted the UN`s plan at 2004 but %75 of Greek Cypriots voted "NO" because UN plan was giving equal rights to both Greeks and the Turks in the island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annan_plan

I know that the idea of "Enosis" never disappeared in the island. Greeks are still dreaming about it with the EU`s support. Therefore, they never accept anything besides current situation as long as EU supports them. It was the EU already who blew up the years of negotiations in the UN. Maybe Greek Cypriots was going to vote "YES" for the united Cyprus as well but few weeks b4 the referendum, EU officials sent a message to the Cyprus that they will gladly accept Cyprus as an EU member even if they vote "NO" in the referendum but they also said that Turkey will never be a member unless she recognizes Greek only Cyprus(the double-standarts of EU for the 1000th time). So, Greek Cypriots changed their minds about it and voted "NO".


Yes John, even if Turkish Cypriots accepted the UN plan, Greek and EU embargo still intact vs them. It`s totally unfair. When we negotiated the peace plan, EU said that if Turkish Cypriots accepts the UN plan, they will be EU citizens too and the embargoes will be over but none of these have been realized so far. They simply lied to us and all the embargoes and restrictions for Turkish Cypriots are still intact today. You can understand how unfair it is when you compare it with the current debate of embargo to the Iran. Turkish Cypriots are under the embargo for 36 years already but they didn't produce nuclear bombs or they didn't threat anybody. It`s around 300.000 people already and they didn't do anything bad at all.

BUT I am optimistic about the recognition of Turkish Cypriots in the near future. I think both EU and Greek Cypriots will have no choice other than recognition of Turkish republic of northern Cyprus. I am not sure but we will see.

[Bill77]

"Makronisos and Giaros horror camps"

These horror camps were disgustingly used for another reason when it came to ethnic Macedonian prisoners. There only crime was having a Macedonian Consciousness. Till this day, Greeks deny there were Macedonians fighting for independence and they were nothing but Communists. In fact just like back then, today they fear the existence of a Macedonian ethnicity and deny it and would do anything to pull the wool over the eyes of the world.

Below are just the tip of the iceberg of the things that Macedonians had to go through according to "Polymeris Voglis" from a book called "Becoming a subject: political prisoners during the Greek Civil War"

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=IuZZJXSWQ50C&pg=PA133&lpg=PA133&dq=Makronisos+horror+camp&source=bl&ots=qeW7NIZi6v&sig=uGscQEu4_J7-QssmFjywrqM1FzI&hl=en&ei=U_hCTMvZH47evQO8zPjnDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

Giaros (or Gioura) is a small rocky island in the cyclades among syros, Kea and Tinos. The first detainees there were suspect soldiers who arrived on the island at the beginning of 1947 and later transfered to Makronisos. The first 1650 prisoners arived fron Salonica and Kalamata.

The directors of the camps were successively, Ioannis Papadimitropoulos, Georgios Glastras and Emmanuel Bouzakis.

Under the command of Glastras and later Bouzakis, Sheer terror reigned on the island. They were made to understand that Giaros was not ordinary prison. When 280 prisoners arrived in Giaros in september 1949,

As soon as they went ashore, Glastras' cry "kill the Bulgarians" was the signal for the guards to attack. They beat them furiously and indiscriminately on the heads and all over the body with batons and whips. Valuable personal things were stolen and all there foodstuffs and clothing were thrown into the sea. They were obliged to spend the whole day out, exposed under the sun and without water.

Clearly here the call of "Bulgarians" suggests it was a ethnic issue these Greeks had, rather than a political ideology of the Macedonians. More example to back my theories is below. After reading it, ask your self, how could women and children can be blamed for a political ideology?

The Women's Camps

Female political detainees were first interned on the island Chios and then on Trikeri. There status was closer to that of the exiles: They have not been convicted by courts but by the public security committees. In June 1948, 910 women were interned together with there forty four children; half a year later, there were 1316 women and fifty-two children. In the beginning, the detainees enjoyed some freedon. But after july 1948 the situation changed.

One hundred and ninety nine women were classified as "Dangerous" whereas the rest were divided into "Bulgarians" (women who were simply relatives to guerillas) And "Russians" (woman classified as communists)

The women exiles faced the problems of life in Prison; rooms were over crowded, (thirty to fifty women in one room), sanitary facilities were inadequate, the quality of food was poor, many detainees with health problems were not transfered to the hospital, and strict restrictions were imposed: any recreational activities such as song, theater or dance was forbidden.

Mothers were separated from there daughters, when one or the other was considered "dangerous" or from their children, in order for the latter to be taken to orphanages. The day the twenty-one children were transfered to an orphanage, a detainee recalls, "almost none of us ate, and when the night came we lay on our mattresses silent and crushed"

In March 1949, the female detainees were transfered from Chios to Trikeri, where male detainees had been first deported in 1947 before being transfered to Makronisos. At its peak in the summer of 1949, 4,500 women and children were interned in the island's camp.

What differentiated the Trikeri camp from the one on Chios, was that from every prospective, detainees' lives became worse.

The worst was the transfer to the Makronisos camp-the women knew from rumors that the situation was horrible there. Their turn came in January 1950, when almost 1,200 were sent to Makronisos. As an officer recommended a few months before their transportation, "all the necessary personnel and equipment for 'indoctrination' can be found there"

Thousands of mens eyes looking at them, loud speakers calling to ask for the pardon of the mother land. and a barbed wire fenced camp called the Eidiko scholeio Anamorfoseos Gynaikon (ESAG, Spesial Rehabilitation school for women): these were the female detainees first impressions of Makronisos.
The "Bulgarians", and "Whores" had to sign declarations of repentance and were coerced by the means: taking children away from there mothers, exposing women to the stories of "repentant" soldiers, who described the torments they them selves had suffered while others threatened them; beatings; rumors that spread fear and despair;

A few days later, the officers objective had been achieved. The ESAG was divided into "Repentant" and "Unrepentant" In July 1950, when the Makronisos Reformative Organization was dissolved, more than 500 detainees would be transfered back to the Trikri camp.

The particularity of womens' detention lay in the type of indoctrination.
"Greek women, sign to return to your homes" was the usual exhortation of the (Male) officers. The female detainees were always inscribed within the domain of family relations; The appeal was to daughters, mothers, or wives as representatives of Greek women.

The juxtaposition between "Bulgarians" and "whores" on the one hand, and "Greeks" and "Mothers" on the other, denied the first to be mothers and their children were taken away from them because the woman can not raise them properly, "Nationally"

I don't blame the women that signed considering what they went through. But i salute and i will never understand how those that refused to sign found the courage to refuse.

[Bill77]

Juveniles weren't spared

The torments that the minors in the juvenile prisons of Kifissia (a suburb of Athens) underwent in 1948 were beyond imagination. The tormentors beat the young boys with batons, wires and socks full of concrete; they forced them to eat soap; they used a method the detainees called "balloon", whereby a guard punched an inmate along a corridor and then pushed him to the next guard; on the boys chests, they sewed nametags with slavic endings added to the names; Many boys were raped..

what have these Greeks got with Homosexuality and Boys.

Thessa, is there anything you would like to add? you sounded confused about something on another thread.

[thessalo-niki]

Thessa, is there anything you would like to add? you sounded confused about something on another thread.

What do you mean?
_________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[Soldier of Macedon]

Absolutely shocking details Bill.

May the animals responsible and all of their associates that contributed, burn in hell.