The Existence of a Macedonian minority in Bulgaria

[Bill77]

Watchin Skopians trying to prove that they descend from Alexander the Great, that Tzar Samuil and the Miladinovi Brothers were Macedonian and so on...in front of world historians will be one hell of a show Of course I don't see the government of FYROM agreeing to send a delegation, but who knows...If 10th century french cartographers and chronologists are Bulgarian nationalists, too-we are busted.
After you banned @kate for just giving you another viewpoint you proved yourselves
I have no doubt that sooner or later a Macedonian minority will be recognised-these are the rules of the EU, we accepted them.
But even then your origins will be Bulgarian or Serbian, or Greek, or Albanian. Lets make a parallel closer to you - Australians and British.
PS: The name Kumanovo, have to remind you of a tribe that...I leave it to your capable hands.
Adios ninas !

Hahahahah i love it When slime like you get bent over with facts and when you realise you loose and feel like a wanker, You turn psychotic. Te zezi pichka eden.

Good work MTO another one bites the dust. When people like MakemuseEba i mean Makemustara Rant, you know you won. Truth is agony for these type of people :rmacedonia

[Makemustara]

Watchin Skopians trying to prove that they descend from Alexander the Great, that Tzar Samuil and the Miladinovi Brothers were Macedonian and so on...in front of world historians will be one hell of a show Of course I don't see the government of FYROM agreeing to send a delegation, but who knows...If 10th century french cartographers and chronologists are Bulgarian nationalists, too-we are busted.
After you banned @kate for just giving you another viewpoint you proved yourselves
I have no doubt that sooner or later a Macedonian minority will be recognised-these are the rules of the EU, we accepted them.
But even then your origins will be Bulgarian or Serbian, or Greek, or Albanian. Lets make a parallel closer to you - Australians and British.
PS: The name Kumanovo, have to remind you of a tribe that...I leave it to your capable hands.
Adios ninas !

[El Bre]

No. But the large numbers from the census have disappeared somewhere.

Try using a little logic, it goes a long way.

[Daskalot]

A great idea. Plus we will think of some judging system and we will give points to the academics according to that judging system. The team with more points wins and the other team is going to be obligated to change it’s history books. Sounds good?

Bling, bling, bling.... Lets RUMBLE!!!

I bet my money on the Macedonian team!

[Orfej]

No. But the large numbers from the census have disappeared somewhere.

Yes, the Macedonians in Bulgaria have magically disappeared in the censuses after 1956. The same happened with the recognition of the Macedonian nation and language by your country. Your former communist dictator Todor Zhivkov with a stroke of a pen reversed that decision, along with the decision that there is no Macedonian minority in Bulgaria!!
You see we all thought that a group of people who identify with each other and with the state compose a nation, but we had Todor Zhivkov to tell us otherwise. He was the one deciding who are and who are not a nation( something like a ultimate god who produces ultimate blindness). And sadly his legacy is still nourished in Bulgaria.
That’s why we should not be amazed by the disappearance of the Macedonians as a minority in Bulgaria. It’s simply because Todor Zhivkov decided that they don’t exist.

Because, that country sees no logic in the historical and cultural facts presented by that minority.

But I thought the minority doesn’t exist? At least that’s what your country says!! How weak their arguments are, it’s simply astonishing.

PS: I will set aside the illogical connection between ethnic minorities, their recognition and the ``historical and cultural facts`` that you tried to present.

Where is the historical dispute on the question? One can be easily organised on neutral turf if there is will from the respective institutions.

A great idea. Plus we will think of some judging system and we will give points to the academics according to that judging system. The team with more points wins and the other team is going to be obligated to change it’s history books. Sounds good?

[makedonin]

And yes thank you for adding the Kresna - Razlog one.

I don't see wikipedia as very valuable source.

By the way, I see you take pride into the Kreshna Razlog uprising. Here is some info about it, just in case you have missed it:

http://agema-makedonin.blogspot.com/2007/10/macedonia-razlovci-1976-kresna-1878.html

You'll as well understand why I called it Ilindensko - Preobrajensko.

Preobrathensko or what ever you call it has no foundation or meaning, other than you think that Macedonians were changing into something like Bulgarians or the similar, which in your case might have been the case, if we buy your story being from Razlog, and me personally don't buy it!

Just out of that aspect, you don't deserve the web space to spread your stupidity!

[Makemustara]

Are you aware that there are people who lived in Pirin Macedonia at the time who are giving interviews completely opposite to these?

No. But the large numbers from the census have disappeared somewhere.

Bulgarian atrocities

I already mentioned them, but they were conducted from Bulgarians to Bulgarians.

And what about the Macedonian minority? Why doesn’t your country recognize it?

Because, that country sees no logic in the historical and cultural facts presented by that minority.
Where is the historical dispute on the question? One can be easily organised on neutral turf if there is will from the respective institutions.

[Orfej]

Daskale, greetings!
Obviously Kate will not be able to respond but I will try to. The link I presented clearly states that there were tens of thousands of people killed by the comunists + armed resistance, because they refused to accept Macedonian identity.

Now now Makemustara, you speak about a scientific approach but you present us with an interview from a Bulgarian who we can easily dismiss as subjective and intended to feed the Bulgarian public with their national myth.

http://dariknews.bg/view_article.php?article_id=147280

Are you aware that there are people who lived in Pirin Macedonia at the time who are giving interviews completely opposite to these? For them there was no ``forced macedonization`` , there was a situation where for the first time the population could express their identity without being feared of repression from the Bulgarian atrocities. And that situation was reflected in the censuses in 1946 and 1956 respectively.

It will become even clearer when more documents on the red terror are out of secrecy, but it takes more political will and less agents in the government.

We are anxiously waiting for all those ``documents`` that you speak off!! I’m somehow afraid that we are just going to see parody of documents like the one that already circulates the internet( allegedly from the Blagoevgrad archive)

OMO Ilinden were struggling to find one more signature from the minorities and don't worry-peaceful separatism is acceptable in Europe so don't fear any repressions.

Well then why can’t they be registered as a party? Maybe we should play a game, what excuse will the Bulgarian state think of to stop their registration? I bet on `` their shoes were too dirty, we can’t allow guys with such dirty shoes to be considered as politicians``

And what about the Macedonian minority? Why doesn’t your country recognize it?

[Makemustara]

Daskale, greetings!
Obviously Kate will not be able to respond but I will try to. The link I presented clearly states that there were tens of thousands of people killed by the comunists + armed resistance, because they refused to accept Macedonian identity. It will become even clearer when more documents on the red terror are out of secrecy, but it takes more political will and less agents in the government.
julie, what geopolitical turn will be needed for the ancient Macedonian lads to be unified. Second, Alexander was quite far from being Bulgarian.
Why are there no debates between Bulgarian, Macedonian,Greek and may be western historians on your claims?OMO Ilinden were struggling to find one more signature from the minorities and don't worry-peaceful separatism is acceptable in Europe so don't fear any repressions. Btw, Bulgaria is not looking to unify with a large Albanian minority, either. Speaking of Albanians I encountered one, driver in the UK, he trully beleaved that half the population of MK are his countrymates and his spoken Bulgarian was quite good in fact (we are not really different for him).
I want to make it right-I don't generalize on Macedonians, their honor or other moral strengths, my apologies if you got it that way. The world is more than black and white.

in fact there are more macedonians in bulgaria then ethnic bulgars

a nation where no bulgars live anymore

Well, Bulgarians live there.You are confusing historical terms, in English "Bulgars" is predominantly used to describe one of the components of the ethnogenesis of modern Bulgarian nation, although I've seen variations.
Bill77, how about a more dialectic approach? Also, I'll put it simple-FIRST you gather facts NEXT you analyse them and build a theory, THEN you test the theory, and provide credability trough using other methods/comparing with other theories and facts.
And I think I didn't use offensive language, so please...

[Daskalot]

Kate please respond to this post:


Taken from “From Recognition to Repudiation: Bulgarian Attitudes on the Macedonian Question” by Vanǵa Čašule, Kultura, 1972.

[julie]

Kate you can spout your bullshit as much as you want, you are a brainwashed person that believes in the sense and logic of wikepedia, I really dont care what you say you Vulgarians together with the Hellass and Yugos can try and justify the cultural and ethnic genocide of my Macedonian people, but it wont distinguish the flame in the diaspora. You pathetic excuses for human beings can dribble your verbal diarhea and bullshit as much as you like, you have NOTHING and your fear on Pirin Macedonia rightfully being unified with the rest of m beautiful country is what will forever have you spout your garbage

ok DEAR, and NO we wont have your indoctrinaring bullshit garbage links posted on this forum which is the MACEDONIA TRUTH

[kate]

Well dear if I try to post anth else it would be deleted. Right?!! According to administrator I am spreading Bulgarian propaganda. Go figure! But trsut me the article can be trusted .

[kate]

Look man, I don't really care if you're macedonians or Bulgarians. I don't mind Macedonia and it's existance. What I can't understand is the hatred against bulgarians and very weired interpretation of historical facts. Why can't you just build your history from now on and live the past where it belongs. Yes there was Alexander, but after him so many changes happened to the region, so many tribes came and went. Acoording to the counts of Macedonia in the early 1900's the ethnical elements in Macedonian region were Bulgarians, Turks, Greeks and Albanians. That is in all publications during this period. It is your right now to establish your nation after being granted the right to have yout own country and I support that. But it is not the way to do it, by false interpretations and hatred towards other nation, who have as much right as you to exist.

[julie]

Kate, wikepedia is not a factual source of information, it is not ackowledged as a factual reference tool in Australian universities because anyone can change the "facts" posted on it

[kate]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilinden-Preobrazhenie_Uprising

Read this Razlog did take part in Ilindensko - Preobrajensko uprising. And yes thank you for adding the Kresna - Razlog one. You'll as well understand why I called it Ilindensko - Preobrajensko.