Origins of Albanian language and ethnos

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    The names of Vlachs, who were killed during the National Liberation Anti-fascist War of Albania (1939-44), or fell in the line of duty, such as:

    o Kushi, Vojo (1918-42): Legendary commander of guerrilla units during the first years of the National Liberation Anti-fascist War (1939-44), who, along with three other partisans, fell heroically in clashes with Italian fascist forces, on October 7, 1942, at a place called 'Red Hill' (Tirana). Hero of Homeland.
    o Poçi, Anthony Jorgji (1926-44): Legendary partisan of the National Liberation Anti-fascist War (1939-44), who fell heroically in the village of Lazarat (Gjirokastra), in clashes with numerous enemy forces. Martyr of Homeland.
    o Spiru, Nako (1918-47): Prominent leader during both the National Liberation Anti-fascist War (1939-44), and the early years of the post-liberation period, who was killed just for certain political purposes by Secret Service of Albanian Communist State, on November 20, 1947. Honor of Homeland.
    o Trasha, Vasil (1926-58): Legendary aviator, who fell in the line of duty on March 23, 1958, while flying over the hills of the village of Fier-Shegan (Lushnje). Martyr of Homeland.
    o Tutulani Kristaq (1919-43): Legendary partisan of the National Liberation Anti-fascist War (1939-44), who was brutally executed by Italian fascists in the village of Gosë (Kavaja), on July 6, 1943. Hero of Homeland.
    o Tutulani Margarita (1924-43): Legendary partisan of the National Liberation Anti-fascist War (1939-44), who was brutally executed by Italian fascists in the village of Gosë (Kavaja), on July 6, 1943. Hero of Homeland.

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    • Liberator of Makedonija
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 1597

      The Republic of Mirdita, formed by Catholic Ghegs in Prizren in 1921 in an effort to secede from what they saw as a Islamocentric Albanian state which was run by "Turks"

      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

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      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        Arnautaši theory

        The term Arnautaši (from Arnauti, a historical Turkish term for Albanians) was coined by 19th century Serbian historians and by that term they meant "Albanized Serbs" (Serbs who had converted to Islam and went through a process of Albanisation). Also, British historian Harold Temperley also considered "Arnauts" as "Albanised Serbs". The term used by Serbian nationalist historiography attributed most to some Albanians from Kosovo but also to Northern Albanians (Ghegs) and was used by some Serbian nationalists to explain the large numbers of Albanians in Kosovo in that migrations of Albanians from Northern Albania was the migration of Serbs to another place and not of a different people. While the theory that acquired its maximal form by nationalist Serb writers Spiridon Gopčević and Miloš Milojević became popular among some Serb historians, Western based historians dismiss it on grounds that had the population been Serbian in Northern Albania, when and how did the process of Albanianisation occur in the first place.

        Orahovac

        At the end of the 19th century, writer Branislav Nušić claimed that the Serb poturice (converts to Islam) of Orahovac began speaking Albanian and marrying Albanian women. Similar claims were put forward by Jovan Hadži Vasiljević (l. 1866-1948), who claimed that when he visited Orahovac in World War I, he could not distinguish Orthodox from Islamicized and Albanized Serbs. According to him they spoke Serbian, wore the same costumes, but claimed Serbian, Albanian or Turk ethnicity. The Albanian starosedeoci (natives/old families) were Slavophone; they did not speak Albanian but a Slavic dialect (naš govor, "our language") at home. An Austrian Joseph Muller who visited the area (19th century) wrote that the dialect originated from the time of the Serbian uprising (1804) against the Ottomans when Albanians from Shkodër who had resettled around Valjevo and Kraljevo in central Serbia, left after those events for Orahovac. The corpus of Bulgarian terminology in the dialect was unaccounted for by Muller.

        In the 1921 census, the majority of Muslim Albanians of Orahovac were registered under the category "Serbs and Croats", based on linguistic criteria.

        Mark Krasniqi, the Kosovo Albanian ethnographer, recalled in 1957: "During my own research, some of them told me that their tongue is similar to Macedonian rather than Serbian (it is clear that they want to dissociate themselves from everything Serbian). It is likely they are the last remnants of what is now known in Serbian sources as 'Arnautaši', Islamicised and half-way Albanianised Slavs."

        Janjevo

        In 1922, Henry Baerlein noted that the Austrians had for thirty years tried to Albanianize the Janjevo population (see also Janjevci).

        Romani

        The Ashkali and Balkan Egyptians, who share culture, traditions and the Albanian language, are of Romani origin.

        URL:

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        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          Donald M. Nicol, The Despotate of Epiros 1267-1479: A Contribution to the History of Greece in the Middle Ages (Cambridge University Press, 1984)

          [Nicol, Despotate, 101] 71: Cantac. ii. 32:I, p. 495, who also records Albanian attacks on the fortresses of Kleisoura, Skreparion and Timoron near Berat. Marino Sanudo writes of damaging Albanian incursions into Thessaly and in terras Vallone Belgradi et Thessalone subiectas imperatori Graecurum in 1327. A. Cerlini, “Nuove lettere di Marino Sanudo il vecchio,” La Bibliofilia, XLII (1940), 350-1.

          [Nicol, Despotate, 104] Before he left Thessaly, the emperor received a deputation from Albanian immigrants, of whom there were by now about 12.000. They lived mainly in the mountains and came down to the plains only for the winter months.

          [Nicol, Despotate, 108-110] In 1337 the emperor received alarming reports from his officers in the western provinces. The Albanians in the district between Balagrita and Kanina had again risen in rebellion, in spite of the privileges which the emperor had recently granted them. […] The emperor therefore wisely engaged a force of some two thousand Turkish infantry kindly supplied, at a price, by his friend Umur, the Turkish emir of Aydin. In the spring of 1338 he led them, together with his own army, into what Gregoras calls Illyria. He made his headquarters at Berat. The Albanians were caught unawares, not by the attack but by the nature of the attackers. They had expected a cavalry force and had taken to their hills and hiding places. But the Turkish bowmen, being light-armed and agile, soon found their way among the mountains. […] The local people who had suffered so much from the Albanian bandits were delighted to see such punishment being inflicted on them.

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          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            Find by RTG:
            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...&postcount=165





            Last edited by Carlin; 07-15-2018, 08:06 AM.

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            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              According to iGENEA tests, 20% of Albanians have Illyrian roots - this component is much smaller than in Bosnia or in Croatia (Pazos 2008b). That's not all... According to the same studies the Albanians carry Y-haplogroup R1A, which is linked to Slavic roots. As an interesting comparison, the Serbs have less R1A than the Albanians.

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              • maco2envy
                Member
                • Jan 2015
                • 288

                Y-DNA isn't really important. Think of your ancestry as binary tree with you at the root, Y-DNA represents a single path (paternal lineage) in a huge tree. It's pretty insignificant. Although it is interesting to note that people in the Balkans have a close to uniform spread of Y-DNA haplogroups i.e it's very diverse with respect to Y-DNA compared to other regions.

                Although the iGENEA genetic tests are autosomal which is generally accepted to be the best for analysis in population genetics.

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                • tchaiku
                  Member
                  • Nov 2016
                  • 786

                  Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                  According to iGENEA tests, 20% of Albanians have Illyrian roots - this component is much smaller than in Bosnia or in Croatia (Pazos 2008b). That's not all... According to the same studies the Albanians carry Y-haplogroup R1A, which is linked to Slavic roots. As an interesting comparison, the Serbs have less R1A than the Albanians.
                  Albanians do not have more R1a than Serbs:
                  History and description of Haplogroup R1a (Y-chromosomal DNA) and its subclades. Haplogroup R1a is the dominant paternal lineage in Northeast Europe and southern Central Asia. It was diffused around Eurasia by the Indo-Aryans and Balto-Slavic people.

                  I don't think genetic tests, so far, can verify Illyrians.
                  Last edited by tchaiku; 08-09-2018, 04:22 AM.

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                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                    According to iGENEA tests, 20% of Albanians have Illyrian roots - this component is much smaller than in Bosnia or in Croatia (Pazos 2008b). That's not all... According to the same studies the Albanians carry Y-haplogroup R1A, which is linked to Slavic roots. As an interesting comparison, the Serbs have less R1A than the Albanians.
                    FYI - Above comes from the book "Language and Nationalism" by Snjezana Kordic.

                    URL:


                    Albanians may or may not have more R1a than Serbs (on paternal lineage). I do agree that genetic tests can't 'detect' Illyrians so far - the same goes for all other peoples, ancient or modern. I'm not sure if it would be all that accurate (in some cases) to associate certain haplogroups with specific 'ethnicities' either.

                    In general, the genetic tests prove that every nation is mixture of different elements or haplogroup 'components'. Also, on an individual level, we are all a mixture of (likely) many different elements - that we are not even aware of.

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                    • Liberator of Makedonija
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 1597

                      The Republic of Mirdita, proclaimed by Catholic Ghegs in 1921:

                      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

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                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        I never heard of this theory before.



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                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332




                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4pYiStgH24






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                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332



                            Albanians (Αλβανοί), name of an Italian nation


                            Last edited by Carlin; 12-15-2018, 12:12 AM.

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                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              URL:
                              A wonderful historical biography of byzantine emperor Constantine VII, written by famous English byzantinist and philosopher. This book contains a large canvas of many sides of Medieval Byzantium' life during VII - X centuries).





                              URL:
                              The Byzantine Empire was almost always ready to fight, and often fought for its life. During much of its history its provinces were military districts called themes, and acclamation by the army, not coronation or inheritance, was what made a man emperor. The army overthrew twenty-odd rulers, and tried to oust many more. It was large and expansive but on the whole it served its purpose well. Over eight centuries, despite losing a surprising number of battles, the army succeeded in preserving both itself and Byzantium. In view of its importance in Byzantine history, it is surprising that this volume is the first general book on the Byzantine army in any language. The author traces the army s impact on the Byzantine state and society from the army s reorganization under Diocletian (284-305) until its disintegration in the aftermath of the battle of Manzikert (1071). He suggests solutions to some major unresolved questions of Byzantine military history: how big was the army, how was it organized, how much of it was cavalry, how much was it paid, how was it supplied, when and why did it receive land grants in the themes, and why, after surviving so many disasters, did it fail to survive the not particularly disastrous eleventh century?




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                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                Леток на Комунистичката партија на Албанија по повод бесењето на шест македонски партизани во Тирана

                                URL:


                                Напишано: 1943
                                Првпат објавено: "Zëri i Popullit", број 2 од 18 мај 1943
                                Извор: Дејан Алексиќ „Душко Поповиќ - Ѓоко“, Архив на Скопје, Скопје, 1985, 345-346 стр.
                                Техничка обработка: Здравко Савески
                                Онлајн верзија: ноември 2014

                                На 17 мај фашистите обесија во Тиранскиот затвор 6 македонски патриоти. Во Тирана се раздели летокот, кој го печатиме тука подолу. Учениците од училиштата, во знак на жалост, спроведоа штрајк. Да се живи! Петтата колона со некои свои агенти, божем 100% патриоти, а учениците биле само 90%, се побунија затоа што тие, пак, божем направиле злосторство против албанскиот народ! Кога би тие направиле злосторство против албанскиот народ сигурно би биле капетани во квестурата или во полицијата во Софија, во Белград или во Тирана и не ќе се бараа со свеќа од фашистичката полиција по целиот Балкан. Тие се бореа против еден непријател кој е и наш непријател, затоа тие беа наши пријатели и со своите сеќавања ни се блиски. Не може да се трпи кога го бесат твојот пријател пред вратата од куќата! Нека замолчат интригантите по кафеаните и шпекулантите со патриотизмот.

                                Народе на Тирана, шест Македонци, борци за слобода, ги бесат денес фашистичките колачи на тиранската земја.

                                Народе на Тирана, на својата земја си ги видел обесени од фашистичките џелати твоите почитувани синови: Шукри Ишма, Амид Шијак, Ферит Џајо и Никола Тупе; на својата земја си видел како се убиени како лавови војувајќи за слободата на Татковината: Ќемал Стафа, Војо Куши, Садек Ставелци, Џорџ Мартини, Мисто Мане, Михал Дури и други; на твојата земја сега гледаш обесени, исто така од крвавите раце на фашистичките колачи, шест деца од македонски мајки, кои војуваа, исто така како твоите синови, со иста душа на самопрегор и жртви против фашистичкиот окупатор и против предавниците, а за слобода на својата Татковина. Тероризмот извршен над тие шестмина македонски херои на албанска земја, поради истата идеја - за ослободување од фашистичкото ропство, нč прават уште повеќе да бидеме солидарни, со соседните народи нč сврзуваат со заеднички пролеаната крв. Борбата на тие херои е и наша борба, тоа е народноослободителната борба на потиснатите народи против поробувачкиот фашизам и против неговите квислинзи.

                                Протестираме сите заедно против ова срамно злосторство, против владата Либокова - Кол Биба, против балканските квислинзи, кои се десна рака на фашизмот на Балканот и заколнати непријатели на народите, против криминалната алијанса на предавниците Либокова - Кол, Биба - Мер, Лика - Борис - Антоанеску - Павелиќ - Недиќ, против заедницата на балканските терористи со фашистичкиот окупатор.

                                Долу фашистичките окупатори и нивните квислинзи!

                                Да живее единството на потиснатите народи во борбата за слобода!

                                Смрт на фашизмот - Слобода на народот!

                                Забелешки на транскриберот

                                [1] Во борбата со балистите на 27 април 1943 година во Ново Село, Гостиварско, биле заробени десет македонски партизани. Тие набрзо биле префрлени во затворот во Тирана каде што на 17 мај 1943 година италијанските фашисти обесиле шестмина од нив: Илија Антевски - Смок, Душко Поповиќ, Христо Оџаклиевски, Раде Угриновски, Драги Тодоровски и Трифко Андоновски. Истиот ден, Околискиот комитет на Комунистичката партија на Албанија за Тирана организирал масовни демонстрации на кои излегле илјадници жители на Тирана. Подробности за овие демонстрации наведува Илија Топалоски во својата статија „Нашата бригада и братството со албанскиот народ“.

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