Greece, History, Truth

[Voltron]

The Ottoman Empire was multicultural just like all other empires in human history, if the Ottoman Empire was not Turkish the Byzantine Empire was never ever Greek.
Most Ottoman sultans were mixed, some even had Greek blood but this doesnt make the Ottoman Empire non-Turkish, like Onur said, Turks founded this Empire, most Byzantine emperors were also mixed but are considered as Greeks because they spoke Greek.

The Seljuqs spoke Persian, they werent Persians but Turks, you cannot say that this empire was non-Turkish because they spoke Persian.

Thank you Ottoman.

[Mikail]

Voltron, you seem to be a sensible guy. What makes you think the Romans spoke Greek in the Roman Empire? I mean, it's not even Italian, it's Roman!

Did not the peoples of the Southern Balkan Peninsular refer to themselves as Romaika?

Were not the peoples of the Southern Balkan Peninsular citizens of and loyal to Rome?

Are you so ignorant as to think that Greek as you know it was spoken during times of Roman conquests?

Did Athenians, Thebians, Cretans, Citizens of Troy etc... all speak a common language?

I mean, wouldn't have Athenians spoken Athenian, a language distinctly identifying them from the City State of Athens, just as Romans spoke Roman, a distinct language of the City State of Rome?

If their language was commonly spoken in the Southern Balkan Peninsular why were they always at war with one another? They didn't feel like a common people if they wanted to kill one another, right? Isn't that why Greece wants to eliminate the Macedonian from existence?

Are you aware that Italian was the language spoke by many of today's Greek Islanders, prior to Greek control during the early 20th century.

So what historical lineage of Greece do you refer to?

Do you believe the Greek taught the Turk to call their father, baba?

Come on mate, I know you're not that stupid! Are ya?

[Voltron]

You cant compare empires with today`s nation states. Already, there was no such a thing as "nation state" b4 French revolution.

To analyze empires, you have to look to the ethnicity of founders and then ruling monarchy(s), also language of the court.

• Ottoman Empire founded by Turks but eastern Roman empire founded by Romans from Italy.

• Ottoman empire always ruled by same monarchy(Osmanoglu family, House of Osman) for 630 years but eastern Roman Empire ruled by many different monarchies like Latins(Romans), Greeks, Armenians, Macedonians etc. The ruling families changed many times in eastern empire.

• The language of the court was always Turkish in Ottoman empire but in eastern Roman empire, it was Latin first for about ~350 years, then Greek for ~500 years, then Latin again for ~100 years when crusaders captured Istanbul and then Greek again for the remaining ~150 years.

So, you decide now if Ottoman empire was Turkish or not and eastern Roman empire was Greek or not. IMO yes, eastern Roman empire was Greek for more than half of it`s lifetime but it`s not possible to claim any continuity from ancient Greeks. Also, to be able to claim continuity, eastern Roman Empire would had been created by Greek speaking people but that wasn't the case. "AFAIK", Romans in Italy was speaking Latin, not Greek. Like i said b4, there was no Greek speaking state around here from 200 BC to 700 AD. Thats 900 years of time. So, your claim of continuity is absurd!!!

So, in that sense, Ottoman empire was Turkish more than eastern Roman empire has ever been Greek!!! On the other hand, Turkish(Turkic) empires got at least 1500 years of uninterrupted continuity like i explained here b4;

Onur, if you would only up your eyes and see that we both have an identical outlook on how we perceive ourselves. Ottoman understands this. You for some reason do not. Maybe you have something against us that makes you talk nonsense all the time.

[Mikail]

Ottoman, are you Turkish?

[Ottoman]

Voltron, you seem to be a sensible guy. What makes you think the Romans spoke Greek in the Roman Empire? I mean, it's not even Italian, it's Roman!

The Eastern Roman Empire spoke Greek till the day they collapsed (1453) not the whole Roman Empire.

The last Byzantine emperor was Greek, I visited his statue in Mistra.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

Voltron, you seem to be a sensible guy. What makes you think the Romans spoke Greek in the Roman Empire? I mean, it's not even Italian, it's Roman!

Mikail, your a sensible fellow as well. In politcs there are certain circles that use different touch phrases or buzz words to cloud or blurry facts. It can be done to downplay or flat out negate another persons position. Western Rome used Latin. Eastern Rome used Greek. Its simple. There is a saying that When Rome Conqured Greece, Greece Conquered Rome. Why did they say that ? Many Romans were Phil-Hellenes and used Greek on an almost daily basis. Did they discard their Latin Alphabet or language ?

Did not the peoples of the Southern Balkan Peninsular refer to themselves as Romaika?

Sure and what would that even mean Mikail. That Greeks are gone ? Im an American by birth. What now ? Have I just committed ethnic suicide by saying this ?

Were not the peoples of the Southern Balkan Peninsular citizens of and loyal to Rome?

As citizens

Are you so ignorant as to think that Greek as you know it was spoken during times of Roman conquests?

Of course it was used Mikail.

Did Athenians, Thebians, Cretans, Citizens of Troy etc... all speak a common language?

Greek is one of the most documented languages in the world. There is no doubt about it. To answer your question, Affirmative.

I mean, wouldn't have Athenians spoken Athenian, a language distinctly identifying them from the City State of Athens, just as Romans spoke Roman, a distinct language of the City State of Rome?

Do you mean Greek vs Latin ? Even Western Romans knew Greek. The educated ones that is.

If their language was commonly spoken in the Southern Balkan Peninsular why were they always at war with one another? They didn't feel like a common people if they wanted to kill one another, right? Isn't that why Greece wants to eliminate the Macedonian from existence?

Nothing new. Its common knowledge we often warred with ourselves. Look around in this planet and you see it happening everyday.

Are you aware that Italian was the language spoke by many of today's Greek Islanders, prior to Greek control during the early 20th century.

That again doesnt mean Greek doesnt exist.

So what historical lineage of Greece do you refer to?

All lineages.

Do you believe the Greek taught the Turk to call their father, baba?

I call my father Patera. I dont use Baba...that is slang and easy to use.

[Pelister]

Most Greeks were from Asia Minor, not the heartland of Anatolia. Get your facts straight.

Why am I not surprised? Getting basic facts right is clearly not your strong point. You have a very distorted picture of people and places but why am I not surprised? Although New Greeks never cease to amaze me, your ability to hold onto your mythical heritage and publish lies that everyone else has it wrong, deserves some kind of international reward or medal.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The Eastern Roman Empire spoke Greek till the day they collapsed (1453) not the whole Roman Empire.

Ottoman, do you want to elaborate on that statement, because I think Voltron is getting a little too excited by your comment?

There is no doubt that Greek (or Romaika, as it was later termed), like Latin before it, was spoken as an official tongue in the eastern part of the Roman Empire, but to suggest that everybody spoke Greek as a native tongue, or were fluent in it, is incorrect. One simple example would be the Emperor Justin, who was illiterate when he assumed the throne at a ripe age. His knowledge of Latin (which was still official at the time) or Greek would have been minimal. Putting emphasis on administrative tongues as indicators of ethnic identity is severely misleading.

[Vangelovski]

Although New Greeks never cease to amaze me, your ability to hold onto your mythical heritage and publish lies that everyone else has it wrong, deserves some kind of international reward or medal.

They certainly do. Maybe a new International Goebbels Award?

[Onur]

SOM is right.

Also Greek wasn't the language of the Byzantine court, all the time. So it would be wrong to say only Greek was the language of the court in eastern Roman empire.

in eastern Roman empire, it was Latin first for about ~350 years, then Greek for ~500 years, then Latin again for ~100 years when crusaders captured Istanbul and then Greek again for the remaining ~150 years.

We also know that Byzantine monarchy changed many times. There was Armenian, Macedonian monarchies beside Greek ones. So, even the monarchy and their language changed many times. How come we can define eastern Roman empire as "Greek" now?

[Soldier of Macedon]

How come we can define eastern Roman empire as "Greek" now?

I would say the confusion arose from the deliberate monopolisation of the term 'Greek', which westerners regularly used to refer to eastern Christians of all ethnicities. In Medieval texts written by westerners which relate to Europe, it is not uncommon to see reference only to Greeks and Latins, and it is senseless to assume that all of them were in fact 'ethnic Greeks' or 'ethnic Latins'. As an example, most of the 'Latin' Crusaders were in fact Germanic.

[osiris]

yeah even bugs bunny speaks greek in some peoples world. wake up wanabee wankers, there is no need to cast back to eastern rome when most of your great grandparents didnt speak greek .

you guys should pay some attention to soldier of macedon unlike your anally retentive cultures mythomania that passes for history som tries to understand the era without any modern political considerations. katalavenite pseftoellini

[Voltron]

I dont get excited over the obvious. I dont know where the comprehension malfunction is but nowhere did anybody ever say that Greek was the only language spoken in the Byzantine Empire. Neither did anybody ever say that everyone in the Byzantine Empire was an Ethnic Greek either.

Again, Just like the Ottoman Empire was Turkish which it was, the Byzantine is Greek. Some may not like it, but no need to get melodramatic over it.

[Risto the Great]

Again, Just like the Ottoman Empire was Turkish which it was, the Byzantine is Greek. Some may not like it, but no need to get melodramatic over it.

Just to be sure of what you are saying, can you please define how the Ottoman empire was Turkish. We will move forward logically thereafter.

[Voltron]

Just to be sure of what you are saying, can you please define how the Ottoman empire was Turkish. We will move forward logically thereafter.

Thats the point Risto. If we are to rewrite everything from the beginning it would only be fair to do it objectivly and fully across the board. Not just with us Greeks.

I am not a Turk, so it would be out of my place to answer. Let them do it.