Greece, History, Truth

[Onur]

You cant compare empires with today`s nation states. Already, there was no such a thing as "nation state" b4 French revolution.

To analyze empires, you have to look to the ethnicity of founders and then ruling monarchy(s), also language of the court.

• Ottoman Empire founded by Turks but eastern Roman empire founded by Romans from Italy.

• Ottoman empire always ruled by same monarchy(Osmanoglu family, House of Osman) for 630 years but eastern Roman Empire ruled by many different monarchies like Latins(Romans), Greeks, Armenians, Macedonians etc. The ruling families changed many times in eastern empire.

• The language of the court was always Turkish in Ottoman empire but in eastern Roman empire, it was Latin first for about ~350 years, then Greek for ~500 years, then Latin again for ~100 years when crusaders captured Istanbul and then Greek again for the remaining ~150 years.

So, you decide now if Ottoman empire was Turkish or not and eastern Roman empire was Greek or not. IMO yes, eastern Roman empire was Greek for more than half of it`s lifetime but it`s not possible to claim any continuity from ancient Greeks. Also, to be able to claim continuity, eastern Roman Empire would had been created by Greek speaking people but that wasn't the case. "AFAIK", Romans in Italy was speaking Latin, not Greek. Like i said b4, there was no Greek speaking state around here from 200 BC to 700 AD. Thats 900 years of time. So, your claim of continuity is absurd!!!

So, in that sense, Ottoman empire was Turkish more than eastern Roman empire has ever been Greek!!! On the other hand, Turkish(Turkic) empires got at least 1500 years of uninterrupted continuity like i explained here b4;

Gok-Turk empire;
- Established 552 AD
- Disestablished 747 AD

GokTurk Empire coins found in today`s Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan archeological digging sites. Coins are dated between 576-600 AD. These coins are currently in a museum in Kyrgyzstan;


Notice the name of the state and the crescent+star on the coins.


At 580 AD, people who lived in western part of GokTurk empire migrated to the further west and founded Turkic Avar kingdom around today`s Hungary/Romania. It disestablished in 9th century and they founded Hungary afterward by mingling with some Slavic, Germanic speaking people and then they became today`s Hungarians.

This is the flag of Hungarian speaking Szekely people in Romania. They are believed to be the descendants of Huns and Turkic Avars(thats what Szekelys themselves say too) and this flag probably was Avar kingdom`s flag too;


The crescent+star again!



Khazar Empire;
- Established 618 AD
- Disestablished 969 AD

After Avar state has been founded, Turkic speaking people at the eastern side of GokTurk empire founded Khazar state.




Seljuq Empire;
- Established 1037 AD
- Disestablished 1307 AD

After Khazar Empire disestablished, most of the people migrated into Anatolia and founded Seljuk Empire.


You know the next one, Ottoman Empire founded at 1299 AD.

Actually there are Huns too but Huns was a confederation of several tribes, tough it`s commonly agreed by every scholar that all the rulers was speaking Turkic and predominant population was the Turks again. If i count Huns too, then our uninterrupted history goes more than 1500 years.

[Voltron]

Yes they did Ottoman. Why dont we ask our hosts here if the Ottoman empire was a Turkish one ? Lets see what they say.

Anybody here want to answer this ?

[Voltron]

Thats B.S!!!

Whatever left from ancient Greece has been lost as early as 200 BC when Romans conquered current Greece and Turkey territories. Then about ~500 years laters, Romans themselves decided to divide their empire for administrative purposes and created eastern Roman empire. Also Latin was the language of the court `till late 7th century. So, there was no Greek speaking state there for like ~700 years and surely, whatever left from ancient Greeks was long lost and disappeared forever in favor of Romans, Latins.

Even the term "Byzantine" is created in 17-18th century by western European philhellenes. It was always eastern Roman empire and the emperors never identified themselves as different than Romans.

So as early as 200BC all the Greeks on the planet spontaneously combusted into nothingness. Is this a new theory in the making ? I think you got something there.

[Onur]

Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece.

Thats B.S!!!

Whatever left from ancient Greece has been lost as early as 200 BC when Romans conquered current Greece and Turkey territories. Then about ~500 years laters, Romans themselves decided to divide their empire for administrative purposes and created eastern Roman empire. Also Latin was the language of the court `till late 7th century. So, there was no Greek speaking state there for like ~700 years and surely, whatever left from ancient Greeks was long lost and disappeared forever in favor of Romans, Latins.

Even the term "Byzantine" is created in 17-18th century by western European philhellenes. It was always eastern Roman empire and the emperors never identified themselves as different than Romans.

[Voltron]

Did they speak Greek in the Byzantine Empire?

Yes they did Ottoman. Why dont we ask our hosts here if the Ottoman empire was a Turkish one ? Lets see what they say.

[Ottoman]

Did they speak Greek in the Byzantine Empire?

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
Yes, it is a Turkish word. I never said it wasnt. Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece. I never said Turkish foods were copied per se, but influenced heavily and your right. It is damn good

as is the ming dynasty and the aztec empire

[Mikail]

Yes, it is a Turkish word. I never said it wasnt. Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece. I never said Turkish foods were copied per se, but influenced heavily and your right. It is damn good

Sorry Voltron but you are very wrong here. There was never an "Ancient Greece", and Byzantium was/is the Eastern Roman Empire, no Greek in Roman buddy!

That Byzantium was a Greek Empire is yet another Greek Lie.

[makedonche]

What do you not understand when I say Mainland Greece Makedonche ? Do you want an EthnoKarta or something ? Its on another thread, would you even believe the ones I would post ? Thats why I asked you to tell me since you know everything.

Voltron
I'll write in crayons for you to make it easier, how am I supposed to give your interpretations of what you think? How am I supposed to answer your questions when you don't tell me your interpretations?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece.

What are you babbling about now? East Rome (Byzantium) was a continuation of the Roman Empire, which was preceded by the Macedonian Empire.

Colonialism stemming from ancient Greece was commercial in nature, like those from Spain and Portugal in later times. Most of your Greek-speaking groups far from Greece were as ethnic Greek as today's Peruvians are Spanish, or as Pele was Portugese.

[Ottoman]

Falafel is Arabic/middle eastern, its not that popular in Turkey.

Meat on stick is sis kebab, I dont know the origins of that, can be Persian or Turkish dont know, I do know that kebab is a Persian word.

Cacik is the same as Tzatziki.

[George S.]

Ottoman you dissapoint me how could you forget TOLUMBI that's definitely (not)GREEK.
How about the souvlaki is that greek (meat on a stick) or is it turkish??The humble kebab??
or the kofte??felafel?The greek salad is that really turkish???We make sarma(rice & mince wrapped in cabbage leaves or with vine leaves.What's Gacik?? we make zelnik or maznik this is a pastry that is filled chese,anything & is intertwinened in a circle in the pan & pitulici pancakes.

[Voltron]

Yes, it is a Turkish word. I never said it wasnt. Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece. I never said Turkish foods were copied per se, but influenced heavily and your right. It is damn good

[Ottoman]

Yoghurt is a Turkish word, if there was yoghurt in ancient Greece the name and form would be different than the yoghurt we know today, just like Sarma and Cacik.

By the way ancient Greece and Byzantine Empire are two different timelines, there is something inaccurate in your post.
All the Turkish foods we know today are not copied but perfected and spread around the Balkans.

We all know that baklava is a Turkish invention, I dont mind that you guys have it too but just dont lie about the origins...

[Voltron]

I also cannot believe that swearing is the only thing Greeks got from the Turks, man you live in Greece just take a look at the design of your houses over there, its exactly the same as in any other Balkan region and Turkey.

Thats just the result of 400 years Ottoman occupation and still you guys say the only thing you got from the Turks is swearing....

Some of you guys are really living life with double standards, claiming baklava as Greek but closing your eyes about anything else being Turkish in your culture.

I once ate baklava in a Greek restaurant and trust me if you dare to serve that in a Turkish restaurant people will make fun of you, baklava is not made that way like the Greeks do.

Of course our baklava is different. Personally I prefer the Turkish ones. Dont take it personally Ottoman, all we are saying is the Turkish impact wasnt a big one. If you consider how much the Ottomans took from the Byzantines why would you think there was such a big difference? Espescially the foods, Turks took the recipes of foods from the Byzantines then say it is Turkish. Sweets like honey, nuts, yoghurt have been used in Ancient Greece since time immemorial. Why is it Turkish ? But that is a different story. Anyway, yes the house's are Ottoman Turkish and even in Greece we say it is. Espescially the ones in Thrace, Epirus, and Macedonia.

That said, I noticed that our apartment buildings have outside balconies and the ones in Turkey rarely do. Probably something carried on from the past.