Greece, History, Truth

[Serdarot]

1. the "western world" was persecuting the early Christians.

2. the Ancient Macedonians were the First Christians in Europe

1+2= the "western world" was persecuting Ancient Macedonians + other Christians


SOM:

you should know that the Romans had toalets and canalization. They probably got it from the Ancient Macedonians.

and as far i know, the Turkish Amamīs (public baths) between the canalisation, the cold and the warm water, also had toilets...

as far i know, the "western world" should be in eternal gratitude to the Turks and the Arabs, couse mostly those 2 cultures saved the achievements made by our Ancient Ancestors

Medicine books / knowledge, Aristotels works and many other books, were translated from Arab into Latin or into "greek", and later translated to the ancestors of the modern west-european languages

get some more information about the period of Arab and Turkish "domination" in Europe, specialy about the Arabs in Al-(v)Andaluz and the Turks

part of the "primitive muslims" picture, projected through the "western world", is just a bs like the greek myth ^^

[Ottoman]

The Turkish system was different than the previous one in the terms of toleration, Mehmed II tolerated other religions.

Jews suffered a lot in Europe but were allowed to live their lifes on Ottoman grounds.
The whole western world was working this way, burning down heretics, Jews, witches and cats, dont fool yourself.

In other words we brought humanity back to the Europeans, we gave Europe so many things, Serdarot just explained it nicely.

[Soldier of Macedon]

You know, Ottoman Empire already had already all Balkan provinces b4 conquering Istanbul at 1453 AD and by building that place at 1454, Mehmed II wanted same system to be used for all the future rulers of Wallachia, Serbia etc. under the supervision of Byzantine scholars and ofc with orthodox christianity as a religion instead of islam.

That doesn't exactly qualify the term 'Turkish system', does it? That sort of 'system' which included education for young rulers in the making, etc was already in existence well before the Turks arrived in the Balkans and Anatolia.

Before that era, Vatican was selling territories from heaven for money, filth and diseases was everywhere. They were burning Jews alive by thinking that they were the cause of plague. They were crucifying cats and women for being witches.

The Vatican on its own hardly counts as the whole western world. I think you're referring to some more extreme examples which may have been common in some areas but certainly would not be the norm across the whole western world.

They didn't even have toilets.

Lol, who had toilets in that era, Onur?

[Ottoman]

Greeks ruled my ass, when they ruled Izmir there werent any Turks there, we ruled them for 400 years, they ruled nothing.
They didnt rule us, they only ruled the lands where nobody lived on.

[George S.]

Onur you know what imean when i say that the greeks have really gone out of their way to provide a colorfull & fancifull explanations for different things.In ancient days they call them myths more or less made up lies so that they can live with reality.

[Onur]

Onur, what do you mean by the 'Turkish system' and how did it impact on the individuals that went on to have careers as clergymen?

The system for future rulers in both Ottoman and Seljuk empires was like that; When the sons of the sultan becomes 6-7 year old, they are taken from their mother and given to the several scholars for their education cuz they must be fully ready to rule the empire when their father dies. They learn several languages, religion, math, history, warfare skills, literature and whatever necessary for them. It`s like janissary system but it`s a special version for future sultans.

For example, i posted a msg here about a poem for Alexander the Great. This poem has been written in 1390 AD just for the education of the son of Beyazit I to learn about Alexander when he was young;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4444

You know, Ottoman Empire already had already all Balkan provinces b4 conquering Istanbul at 1453 AD and by building that place at 1454, Mehmed II wanted same system to be used for all the future rulers of Wallachia, Serbia etc. under the supervision of Byzantine scholars and ofc with orthodox christianity as a religion instead of islam.

Implying that people in the western world (in the general sense) were living like 'animals' is incorrect and misleading. I am positive that similar generalisations can be (and have been) conjured about people in Asia at given periods throughout history. In both cases they are based on the actions of some societies or segments of societies, and not on all the societies as a whole.

Well, it is true SOM. Western world has surpassed eastern world(incl. Balkans) after renascence, reform and industrialization. Before that era, Vatican was selling territories from heaven for money, filth and diseases was everywhere. They were burning Jews alive by thinking that they were the cause of plague. They were crucifying cats and women for being witches. They didn't even have toilets.

You cant do same generalizations for eastern world of that era. At the same era, Istanbul was like a told above, Taj Mahal was about to be build in India, there was medicine and science in eastern world much earlier than the works of leonardo da vinci. Also, food was never a problem in mesopotamia and the rest of Asia while it was exactly opposite for western Europe. Already the secondary reason(maybe primary) for crusaders to came to eastern world was sacking the richness of eastern world which was lacking in western side. Roman priests was trying to lure crusaders by saying that even the streets was made of gold in eastern world. Well, it wasn't that much but clearly eastern world was much more advanced and civilized than western world.

Som ihave met greeks that regard instanbul as greek for what happened in the byzanteen empire.They regard constantinople as theirs & actually visit the place.They said the rent is pretty cheap there & they admit it is still magnificent.

Yes i know that most Greeks regards Istanbul as Greek city even tough Turks rule it for nearly 600 years. It`s biggest delusion in the world Well, they regard Izmir as Greek city too even tough Turks took it at 11th century more than 900 years passed but they still cant handle the truth thanks to the Greek education system!!! It`s ironic that neither Byzantines nor ancient Greeks ruled Izmir for more than 900 years but they regard as it`s supposedly a Greek city even tough Turks rules here for nearly ~1000 years.

[George S.]

Som ihave met greeks that regard instanbul as greek for what happened in the byzanteen empire.They regard constantinople as theirs & actually visit the place.They said the rent is pretty cheap there & they admit it is still magnificent.

[Soldier of Macedon]

This building has been awarded to the Istanbul patriarchy by Mehmed II and all the kings, princes and monarchies of Balkan provinces from Morea, Sofia, Romania, Serbia to Hungary has been raised and educated here when they were young. Mehmed II adopted the Turkish system for the education of future christian rulers for Balkan provinces and this system continued `till 19th century.

Onur, what do you mean by the 'Turkish system' and how did it impact on the individuals that went on to have careers as clergymen?

Btw, gotta remind you that while these things happening in 1454 at Istanbul, western world was at pre-renascence era and they were living like animals; witch hunting, extermination of jews and cats in the name of stopping black plague to spread, other filth and diseases...

Implying that people in the western world (in the general sense) were living like 'animals' is incorrect and misleading. I am positive that similar generalisations can be (and have been) conjured about people in Asia at given periods throughout history. In both cases they are based on the actions of some societies or segments of societies, and not on all the societies as a whole.

[George S.]

Hey onur where's our greek friends they are busy doing you know what to each other,It's
very sad when they resort to such things we call them low lifes they have no respect for no one.

[Onur]

once again you offer plausible answers.

Thanks George.

All they do is feeding the hateful propaganda, nothing else. Bulgarians are same as Greeks too. For example, this was on the news in Turkish media this week;



This church has been constructed after the declaration of separate exarchate church by the sultan. It`s just ~100mt away from the red Greek church in my previous post. Probably Bulgars wanted their church to be as close as possible to the Greek one, just to piss off Greeks. It`s unique by it`s cast-iron construction. Probably it`s the oldest church in the world made with full 100% cast-iron, even inside of it.

In the media, it was saying that because poor ass Bulgaria couldn't give enough money for it`s restoration, so Turkish cultural ministry will pay all the expense of it. I am not sure but i think it`s same for Greeks too. They don't give any money to us for restoration works of their churches either. All they do is spreading propaganda like supposedly Turks fcked them in the ass and not doing anything useful at all. The situation is same for Bulgars too. Ofc in the meantime, they continue to destroy Turkish monuments in their country or paint nazi symbols and "death to the turks" on their walls.

[Ottoman]

Lol Mehmed II was gay and pedofile? whats next? he was also superman?

The Byzantine Empire never had a ruler like Mehmed II so I understand the jealousy, just tell me my Greek friend why were many Byzantines happy about the fact that Mehmed II was the new ruler of Constantinopel? everyone just hated Constantine XI, have you ever asked yourself why?

[George S.]

once again you offer plausible answers.THe only people that were fcking people up the arse is the greeks themselves.Now today like you said they get it from the EU.That's why they call themselves hellasses that's why ehey are all fcked up & resort to picking on defenceless countries like macedonia.They would not dare tangle with turkey because it's got 10 million soldiers.Greek reasoning defies logic all the time they would have you beleive that someone so wealthy & smart like the sultan mehmet would degrade themselves & fck a 14 year old boy up the ass.they should know better than that,But they have concocted heaps of myths & lies about other countries.The greeks have used lies & fear tactics to prevent both macedonia & turkey from being admitted to the EU.

[Onur]

aren't the greeks full of fanciful ideas.The greeks will do anything to cover their asses including reinventting truth with lies.

Yes they are George, you are right. I edited my post above and added info about the siege of constantinople by crusaders and what they have done to the city. On the other hand i can give you one example what Mehmet II did to the Byzantines after 1453;

This beautiful building in Istanbul has been constructed in 1454 by the order of Mehmed II, just one year after Turks got the city;



We can say that this was the first university of Istanbul. This building has been awarded to the Istanbul patriarchy by Mehmed II and all the kings, princes and monarchies of Balkan provinces from Morea, Sofia, Romania, Serbia to Hungary has been raised and educated here when they were young. So, Mehmed II adopted the Turkish system for the education of future christian rulers for Balkan provinces and this system continued `till 19th century. Istanbul patriarchy still owns this property today.

Btw, gotta remind you that while these things happening in 1454 at Istanbul, western world was at pre-renascence era and they were living like animals; witch hunting, extermination of jews and cats in the name of stopping black plague to spread, other filth and diseases...



It`s ironic that Greeks now thinks Mehmed II fcked them in the ass while it was the catholics who really raped them 200 years b4 that. On the other hand, modern Greeks gone bankrupt today and they are still getting fcked in the ass by the very same people today!!! and their politicians still blame Turks for that!!!

In my opinion, Mehmed II did a mistake by respecting and trusting these Byzantines. It was the biggest mistake in 600+ years history of Ottoman Empire. Mehmed II should have done what Crusaders did to them 200 years ago. He should have convert them to islam as modern Greeks claims today or force them to go exile. Then western europeans couldn't even find single philhellene Arvanite in Morea to create modern Greece in 19th century.

[George S.]

onur your explanation seems plausible,unless there is evidence that the sultan was gay why would he fck some 14 year old up the ass when rhere were so many beautifull women around.I can understand the greeks wanting to root someone up the arse but not the otherway around.The truth is that it's probably a made up story full of bullshit to cover the fall of constantinople.aren't the greeks full of fanciful ideas.The greeks will do anything to cover their asses including reinventting truth with lies.

[Onur]

Ottomans "tolerated" Christians because it was the Christians who had to pay all the taxes,it's as simple as 1+1=2!No Christians=Decreased incomes for the Ottoman state.However despite this "tolerance" speaking in general terms,there are many cases of individual Christians having being executed for refusing to converst to Islam,or being forced to become Muslims:

You Greeks couldn't clear up these contradictions nearly for 200 years. You better decide which one you gonna use as anti-Turkish propaganda; Turks needed christians for taxes OR Turks forced Christians to convert as muslims???? If you claim both, then you contradict with yourself!!!

Sure,Mehmed II was famous for his "tolerance".You can ask the last Byzantine Grand Duke Lukas Notaras for this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=BAzntP0lg58C&pg=PA151&dq=notaras%27+fourteen+old+year+son&hl=el&ei=miQfTavgEY6v8QOQ86XuBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=notaras%27%20fourteen%20old%20year%20son&f=false

You really believe this crap??? without a quote, footnote, source from 1453 AD???

I really mean it, you Greeks really believe that Mehmet II conquered istanbul just to fck some 14 year old royal Greek asses??? Whatta stupid story this is; World`s strongest and wealthiest leader of 15th century openly asks for 14 year old Greek boys to fck in the ass at the royal court and poor Greeks suffers, right??!!! You were going to make me cry with this dude, poor Greeks, just like the Jesus Christ, innocent ones, oww, how sad!!!

Bunch of nomadic barbarians invades constantinople, then they rape your pretty asses and destroy beautiful Hellenic culture...These barbarians had no language, no culture, one eyed blood drinking monsters oppressing the innocent ones, just like the story of Jesus Christ.... this is what you have been told since primary schools??? right?


Also, one wonders why Greeks always make up stories like that without a proof and write countless books with it instead of turning back 200 years more to 13th century and write the true story of the siege of constantinople by Catholics. You don't need to make up stupid stories like that either cuz everything is written by Byzantines and Latins themselves; Close to 50.000 people massacred in constantinople and whole city burned by them and then everyone gone exile from there, city turned into a ghost town. Byzantine emperor gone exile and asked for help from the Turks. Whores sat down to throne and crusaders set up gang bang party in Hagia Sophia. Frescoes damaged in the church and all mosaics covered up with human feces. Famous library of constantinople has been burned and several monuments has been stolen and gone to Rome, Venice etc. Then Byzantines took back the city with the help of Turks who also protected exiled monarchy.

Why you guys doesn't write all these events?? It`s 100% truth unlike your stupid stories about Mehmet II. OR this doesn't fit to your current political policy??? so you concentrate on usual "blame the Turks for everything" policy???