Are you born or do you become Greek? TM's special reply

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  • TrueMacedonian
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3810

    Are you born or do you become Greek? TM's special reply



    Are you born or do you become Greek?
    Tuesday 9 February 2010, by Nicolas Mottas

    Walking on Thessaloniki’s Aristotelous square some leaflets draw my attention. "You are born Greek, you don’t become Greek" was the slogan on them, while they were calling people to condemn the government’s proposal for granting Greek citizenship to immigrants. A few meters away, on the wall, you could clearly see the graffiti-written message "Solidarity to all immigrants". These two completely different approaches give the notion of a nation divided in two parts. Why?

    A recent law proposal of the government that aspires to grant citizenship to second-generation immigrants who are born in Greece raised a storm of arguments. Although notoriously hospitable people, the Greeks still treat the immigration issues with great wariness.

    In an opinion-poll conducted for Mega Channel during January, 64.9 percent of the participants responded positively to the perspective of granting citizenship to immigrants’ children; however, 49.6 percent said "No" to the citizenship for migrants who legally reside in the country during the last five years.

    Apparently, the absence of a serious, well-structured, immigration policy consists an issue of high concern. The country is, for almost two decades now, exposed to uncontrollable illegal migration due to its extended borders. As columnist Stavros Ligeros points out in Kathimerini, "their (immigrants) number is continually increasing and as a result of this they live in ghettos, usually under terrible conditions". It becomes clear that the state has to develop an immigration policy in order to safeguard the country’s borders and, secondly, to create a legal framework for the best possible integration of the legal immigrants in Greek society.

    Until now, the existence of a frightfully bureaucratic state system has failed to establish the needed circumstances for the gradual integration of these people into society. Nonetheless, it is known that non-integration means more ghettos and therefore social exclusion. Many Greeks who arrived as migrants in Australia, the United States or Germany in the middle of the previous century certainly understand what it means to be socially excluded. On that point, the scare mongering rhetoric of the far-right comes to exploit every available fear. The country’s present unstable economic condition, the rising unemployment levels and the occasional increase of crime rates usually become a political "tool" in the hands of the extreme, xenophobic, voices.

    But, actually, this rhetoric is the curtain of some vicious obsessions. The true reasons behind xenophobia is neither the fear for jobs nor for security. Undoubtedly, the most dangerous ideas derive from the so-called "law of blood". Given the fact that Greece is one of Europe’s least ethnically diverse countries (almost 96 percent of the inhabitants claim Greek ethnicity and Greek Christian Orthodox religion), the extreme speculators try to create the fear of lost homogeneity.

    Surprisingly, they want to ignore that the essence of Greekness doesn’t exist in race, blood or religion but in the so-called Hellenic education and Hellenism’s admirable capacity to assimilate foreign cultures. It was the great ancient orator, Isocrates, who praised the intellectual achievements of Athens noting that the title of being Hellene became "a badge of education rather than of common descent".

    Indeed, there are second-generation immigrants who know no other country but Greece. There are people with African or Asian backgrounds who deserve, more than many indigenous, the title of being Greek. They pose no threat to Greek identity but, on the contrary, they enrich its Ecumenical essence. It’s an issue of legitimacy and, moreover, humanity. The Greek political leadership has a historical responsibility to deal with this matter with wisdom and an open mind.
    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
  • TrueMacedonian
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3810

    #2
    My reply to the following from the article above;

    Given the fact that Greece is one of Europe’s least ethnically diverse countries (almost 96 percent of the inhabitants claim Greek ethnicity and Greek Christian Orthodox religion), the extreme speculators try to create the fear of lost homogeneity.

    Now let's disseminate truth from myth (I know the calamitous questionably "greek" peoples love their myths) with what the CIA factbook states in regards to modern "greece" and a census on ethnicity;



    Ethnic groups:
    population: Greek 93%, other (foreign citizens) 7% (2001 census)
    note: percents represent citizenship, since Greece does not collect data on ethnicity


    LOL well this article can be used as toilet paper now. The article states that "almost 96% of the inhabitants claim Greek ethnicity and Greek Christian Orthodox religion" but in reality modern "greece" does not even collect data on ethnicity.

    And to add insult to this article's injury - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2215 There is a Macedonian minority in the terrorist toilet state known as modern "greece"
    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

    Comment

    • Bratot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2855

      #3
      Should you add the first "Greek" constitution where: To become a Greek, it was enough to be a Christian!

      The 1st Constitution of the Greek State, in the year 1827. ??? ---> 4. Provinces of Greece are all those that were taken and will be taken by weapons against the Ottoman Dynasty. 1) ---> 6. Greeks are: 2) ---> a. All those indigenous people of the Greek State who believe in Christ. 3) ---> b. All those,


      Or you think that would be too harsh?
      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

      Comment

      • TrueMacedonian
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2009
        • 3810

        #4
        Too harsh for the people who believe that their so-called pagan ancestors are the same culturally as them today who believe in Jesus Christ by majority. Not harsh for people like you and me Bratot and others like us in this forum or in the world. This may be just as harsh because it shows you to what extent they are trying to invent imposter hellenes out of thin air - http://old.mfa.gr/english/satelites/diaspora/

        From the "Hellenic Republic Ministry of Foreign Affairs" ;

        Every man that shares a Greek education should be considered as Greek.

        Now that we're already rolling with this let's take a look at someone who did have a "greek education" with remarkable results - http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/22926

        The Macedonians, the Greeks, and the Communists
        Dr. Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis

        The Balkan peninsula has long been considered as Europe’s tinderbox; and with good reason! With so many languages, ethnic groups (or peoples), and religious systems, the Balkans lived their most peaceful period of their millennia long history during the Ottoman rule that last lasted between 400 and 600 years (per different regions). As natural continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire, the Sublime Gate ensured peace and tolerance to a great number of peoples at a time of merciless and inhuman wars in the multi-divided and constantly disputed territories of the defunct Western Empire. The Ottoman Empire’s scholarly, scientific and artistic superiority over the various state forms of Western Europe was undisputed until the beginning of the 17th century. However, the rise to preponderance of a bogus-Islamic, theological – ideological sect, namely the Hanbalite followers of Ibn Taimiya and his obscurantist and barbaric system, led the Ottoman Empire to collapse and the Islamic Civilization to definite and irreversible extinction. From 1600 to 1800 the Ottoman Empire became the Sick Man of Europe, and a century later it died out. The parallel rise of the Western European nationalist and colonialist states exposed the Balkan peoples to hatred, discord, local conflicts and regional wars that have not ended so far.

        Macedonia

        If the Balkans have been identified as home a great number of well diversified peoples and cultures, their best miniature is by definition Macedonia; at this point we use the name as geographical term encompassing preset territories of the Republic of Macedonia, Greece and Bulgaria. Macedonia was for millennia long inhabited by the Macedonians, an ancient people – markedly different than the surrounding Ancient Thracians, Illyrians, Pelasgians, Phrygians, Hittites, and Greeks.

        The best revelator of the dramatic differences that separated the Macedonians from the Greeks in as late periods as the reigns of Philip and Alexander II of Macedonia are Demosthenes and a pleiad of orators, philosophers and illustrious statesmen, who did not accept Alexander II as possible leader – let alone King or Emperor – of the Greeks.

        There are many reasons for this, and one must bear in mind that the Ancient Greeks were never a people, let alone country! The Achaeans, the Ionians, and the Aeolians had always difficulties either to understand one another (so different their respective languages were) or to merge into one country. The Dorians have been considered as alien element, and the struggle of the three former peoples against the earlier substrate of the Pelasgians has been illustrated from epics to drama. To some of these peoples the Semitic Phoenicians were apparently closer, and we know very well that without the Phoenician colonies in the Aegean Sea and the Phoenician infiltration in Athens, there would never be a sort of democratic society in Attica; it was all imported. Others were certainly closer to the Hittites, particularly the earliest element, the Achaeans. Thanks to otherwise prohibited Hittite texts, we know that the Ahhijawa (Achaean) crown prince at (probably) Mycenae spent time with his relatives and friends at Hattushas, the capital of the Hittite Empire, in the east of Ankara, Turkey. The Aeolians seem to have been closer to the Lydians at the westernmost confines of today’s Turkey. All this serves as example of the falsification of the Ancient History of the Balkans at the hands of colonial, mainly French and English, academic compilers whose works were to be imitated by German, Italian and Russian scholarly competitors, who however never questioned the nature of the colonial fabrication.

        Greece

        So diverse and inimical to one another the ancient Greek states have been that we can hardly use one appellation to regroup them. The only purpose of forging such a term – that existed for the Ancient Romans as geographical term only – was the modern European colonial powers’ need for academic, scientific, cultural, educational, political and economic control of vast areas they had planned to subdue.

        The false model did not represent local knowledge of past, and did not reflect local ideas of History, local values and local cultures. It was exported before the arrival of the military; under pretext of interest for the past, a preconceived, false, vicious and malignantly inhuman version of History was venomously diffused for decades before the arrival of the political agents and the naval forces. Ultimately, this false model engulfed these colonial powers to numerous wars of which they have been victims as well.

        How could a version of History that idealizes a ‘Civil War’ (it was a civil war but was presented as such; in Ancient Greek texts it was simply called through geographical terms, Peloponnesiakos polemos, War of / around Peloponnesus) can possibly motivate positively and bring forth anything good for those upon whom it is imposed?

        The various Ancient Greek peoples had managed to accept a Supreme Religious and Spiritual Authority: the Oracle at Delphes. When the Macedonians accepted the Achaemenidian Iranian supremacy, the Oracle given to representatives of various Greek states at Delphes was to ultimately accept the rule of Persepolis, a vast universalist and tolerant empire that regrouped all lands between India and Italy. There was no difference East – West according to the supreme knowledge of the Oracle Wise Priests and Elders! Unfortunately, the alien element, the Dorian Spartans, convinced the rest to apostasy. For the blasphemous and perverse needs of this political attitude, a former ‘journalist’ was hired to write anti-imperial pamphlets that became sort of unsolicited, bogus-History, Herodotus. For the imperial needs of modern European colonialists, the Carian (born at Halicarnassus, Caria) – not Greek – impostor became ‘Father of History’!

        Yet, colonial Assyriologists and Egyptologists deciphered and published in modern translations thousands of historical texts, Great Chronicles and Annals of extremely sophisticated background that antedate the Carian impostor Herodotus by more than 2000 years, either written in Egyptian Hieroglyphics or engraved in Sumerian, Assyrian-Babylonian Cuneiform. We should not forget that the Ancient Elamites, the Hurrians, the Hatti, the Hittites and the Cannanites of Ugarit had also their own great historical texts, antedating Herodotus by centuries and/or millennia; all this is well known to the present, disreputable, academic class of postcolonial European academia who keep shamelessly diffusing the same paranoid and racist bogus-historical forgery.

        Why they selected the Carian impostor Herodotus as ‘Father of their History’? Simply, because they wished to create an arbitrary, false, absolutely Manichaean, division of the World into East and West, whereby the Lights would belong to the latter (i.e. themselves) and the Darkness would emanate from the East.

        How resolutely the ancient Macedonians rejected the pernicious followers of the Herodotus blasphemy, we attest when we read all the inscriptions engraved at Alexander’s request: “Alexander and the Greeks, except the Lacedaemonians”, the latter being an ordinary appellation of the Dorian Spartans.

        The racist academia of Europe seem to insolently forget that, if Athens were possibly a model, Alexander would not opt for Babylon as his Capital.


        Persisting on the racist fabrication, bogus-historians of the European universities camouflage the historical reality that Pharaoh Ptolemy II of Macedonian descent had as supreme political model and considered as ideal statesman Amenhotep son of Hapou, a high administrator of the times of Amenhotep III, who lived more than 1100 years before the times of Ptolemy II.

        Cleisthenes and Alkiviades either could not be held as ideal statesmen or, as Greek, they meant nothing to a Macedonian like Ptolemy II.

        Modern Balkans

        All these Western fabrications were not primarily anti-Ottoman, although the target was also the destruction of the surviving under the Sultan Oriental Roman State that the uncivilized Franks were hating for more than 1000 years. They were expressions of primordial and inhuman hatred addressed against all the peoples of the Balkans and Anatolia, whose potentialities in terms of comprehension, intuition, speculation, humanity and fruitfulness are higher than those of the colonial powers. Only multi-divided and turned one against another, these peoples would leave the colonial expansionists pursue their plans without any hindrance.

        Rich conceptual thinkers and intellectuals like Rega Velestinli (how Greek name and surname!) were envisaging a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious, democratic Imperium to supplant the Sultan’s power to the benefit of all the peoples of the Eastern Roman Empire. Of course, he has been completely misinterpreted by the modern Greek state for nationalistic abuse and for truth masking. But his vision for one state replacing the Ottoman empire is quite telling:

        There was no need for a Greek state, a Macedonian state, a Bulgarian state, an Albanian state followed by all the rest that have been the result of undeserved bloodshed and masochistic massacre. As Rega Velestinli would expect, the false fabrication of modern ‘nations’ was so artificial an event that implied not only inhuman practices and murders that reach the level of genocide but also complete denial of the ‘other’s’ real physical existence.

        One must not be confused by academic and state disinformation that run top for almost two centuries; the denial did not take the form of rejection of the existence of millions of people. It took the form of the rejection of the existence of these people under the identity they were expressing in their daily lives; by saying identity we refer to language, behavioural system and traditions, cultural life, and religious beliefs. When the administration of a country calls the language of another people ‘idiom’, there we have severe discriminatory and racist practices that of course match with, and are strengthened by, the racist model of forged history that foreigners diffused among the leading educators and administrators of the country in question.

        The form of colonial cultural and educational interference was double: either Western Europeans traveled and diffused the historical forgery among the people of the regions they wished to detach from the Ottoman Empire (in order to form the bogus states that suited their colonial imperial needs) or indigenous people started – oddly and iniquitously for what had been historical practice for thousands of years – being selected by consuls, ambassadors and traveling political agents in order to be offered stipendiums to supposedly study abroad! Like this, a certain Adamantios Korais from Izmir (at the western coast of today’s Turkey), the son of nobody to characterize him properly, moved to Montpellier to ‘study’, and fabricate, under due guidance, the educative system of a country that did not exist, but his financiers and educators had already machinated how to fabricate. Like this, Balkan states were to come to existence for the ‘good’ perspective of many wars and abundant arms sales.

        The idiotic pupils of the colonial gangsters did not imagine – even not for a second – that the concept of nations did not exist at the times of the Ottoman and the Eastern Roman Empire, and that at those days Arabic for Muslims, and Greek, Syriac Aramaic, Coptic and Armenian for Christians were ‘holy’ languages – support of their respective Scriptures. This historical reality that was very well known in the past was mendaciously and viciously ‘forgotten’ at the times of the Balkan bogus nation-building. Yet, it was a simple historical phenomenon that had happened many times and under various circumstances throughout History; Slavs and Albanians accepting Christianity were gradually learning Greek, Aramaeans accepting Islam were gradually learning Arabic, and Babylonians and Phoenicians accepting Christianity were gradually learning Aramaic Syriac. This would not entail that they would become Greeks, Arabs and Aramaeans. Consequently, no ‘national’ culture could be possibly imposed on them.

        To impose the false and alien fabrication of colonially forged ‘History’, the Greek state imposed a bogus-historical dogma for the needs of which the Macedonians were Greeks! It is as simple as that! If Zimbabweans lived at the place of Macedonians, the Zimbabweans would certainly ‘be’ Greek! We heard the nationalistic hysteria of those who were screaming in 1990 – 91 ‘Macedonia is Greece’. Quite unfortunately for them, Demosthenes is a far more authoritative source than their chauvinistic fever; we will always opt for Demosthenes when it comes to an evaluation of who is Greek and who is not. And Macedonians of all times were never Greek.

        From Demosthenes to the Greek Communists

        Yet, some light of truth was shed in Modern Greece; at a moment of frontal opposition to the Greek nationalistic establishment, Greek Communist admitted realities the dimensions of which come down to our days. This is what fresh research brings as groundbreaking conclusions.

        Published by Ireneusz Adam Œlupkov, in London and Szczecin (2006), the research concerns “The Communist Party of Greece and the Macedonian National Problem 1918 – 1940”. It is a well written, objective and pertinent study of the policies pursued by the Greek Communist Party during the critical period between the two world wars.

        Perfectly articulated, the book contains an introduction, and five chapters on

        The Problem of Nationalities in Europe and the Policy of the Comintern,

        The Communist Party of Greece and the Policy of "Neither Statehood nor Nationhood" (1918-24),

        The Communist Party of Greece and its Policy of "Statehood without Nationhood" (1924-31),

        The Communist Party of Greece and its Policy of "Nationhood without Statehood" (1935-40), and

        The Real Reasons for the Greek Communist Party's Change of Policy towards the Slogan of a "United and Independent Macedonia".

        After the Conclusion, the author offers a valuable section including bibliography, appendices and maps; as key documents - thus far unpublished and unfocused - are presented in English translation by the multilingual author, one should suggest this book to EU decision makers a key to the formation of a rightful decision. Widely known, this book is also expected to cause an earthquake to the ailing but surviving Greek Communist Party that has been characterized by a nationalistic centrifugal deviation these last years.


        Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

        Comment

        • makedonche
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 3242

          #5
          TM
          Great stuff!
          On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

          Comment

          • osiris
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1969

            #6
            losers want to be greeks becuase it gives them a sense of importance based on the myth of who the ancient greeks were. there would be as much if not more ancient greek "blood" in southern italy than in modern greece. but hell i dont see many italians wanting to be greichenlanders, even the ones whose name is greco, while all the poor sod albos and vlachs and our very own grkomani jumped at the oppourtunity.

            losers all of them.

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #7
              This link no longer works - http://old.mfa.gr/english/satelites/diaspora/

              this was a site for the grk foreign ministry and as it stated on their website the following;

              Every man that shares a Greek education should be considered as Greek.

              Could it be that this thread scared these fruitloops straight?
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • Coastal
                Banned
                • Jun 2010
                • 104

                #8
                TM..i think you should invest money on DNA testing labs.

                Then you should perform tests to the Greeks and prove that they are 100% non-Greek.

                You will save much time.

                Then you could continue your tests with the Macedonians and the other people on Earth.

                Comment

                • TrueMacedonian
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 3810

                  #9
                  Coastal I think you need better material. Maybe ask Akritas or that idiot who claimed that Christopher Columbus was a "greek" (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL) to help you. Errr,,,,,better yet you're doing a good job looking bad as it is. I'm afraid those labotomists would take your game down a few notches.
                  Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                  Comment

                  • Coastal
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 104

                    #10
                    Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
                    Coastal I think you need better material. Maybe ask Akritas or that idiot who claimed that Christopher Columbus was a "greek" (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL) to help you. Errr,,,,,better yet you're doing a good job looking bad as it is. I'm afraid those labotomists would take your game down a few notches.
                    No..i ll ask someone who says Chryssos was not a Vlach. :P

                    Comment

                    • TrueMacedonian
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 3810

                      #11
                      Yes I know. Avoid the actual info from the pages above and resort to bad corny jokes. It's ok we understand.
                      Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #12
                        Coastal, are Columbus and Napoleon 'Greeks' also? Do tell.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • julie
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2009
                          • 3869

                          #13
                          Great post TM, as always you are a champion

                          Coastal, lol, Christopher Columbus a Greek? hee hee hee
                          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                          Comment

                          • Coastal
                            Banned
                            • Jun 2010
                            • 104

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            Coastal, are Columbus and Napoleon 'Greeks' also? Do tell.
                            How the hell should i know? Do you think every Greek should make a research on the subject?
                            I once have read somewhere that a Bulgarian guy claimed Christ was Bulgarian!
                            Ataturk was Macedonian?Skanderberg was Greek?
                            wtf ..do all these add "national pride " to someone!?!?

                            Comment

                            • julie
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2009
                              • 3869

                              #15
                              Ataturk was Macedonian . Half Macedonian.
                              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                              Comment

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